Loader Level Bucket Indicator

[jlgurr]

Ok, for some this may be a silly question but curiosity is getting the best of me... Came up on it again this weekend with a small project. My FEL is narrow enough that I can usually lean to the side and be sure the bucket is level with the ground. Noticed some have installed their own indicators and also that some tractors even come with one from the factory. What I have not seen is an explanation as to how they indicate level.

The reason it nags at me is because the "angle" of my bucket to make it level with the ground changes depending on the height of the ground relative to the tractor as well as the forward/rearward tilt of the tractor. Another way to say this might be that if I was working on a raised ledge in front of the tractor then my loader bucket will be closer to full tilt but still level with the work because the loader is already up in the air a bit.

So does the bucket level indicator take into consideration the height of the work? If it doesn't does that mean it is only accurate when the working height is in the same plane as the tractor tires.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Gem99ultra]

You're exactly right. The level indicator only indicates that the buck is level with the tractor - not with the ground.

I'm sorry to say, while I was originally excited to hear about them and couldn't wait to get one, I find that they're next to useless as far as helping level the bucket. The rod has a bend in it and is exactly at the bend when the bucket is level. That's pretty much the same no-help as the white piece of tape that came on my bucket.

 

[dcgrazier]

I find the level bucket indicator to be quite useful. It is especially useful in the winter when I am clearing snow from dirt driveways or dirt roads. I can tip the bucket slightly up from level and this allows me to clear most of the snow and I am not digging up stone or dirt from the drive or roadway. I have a neighbor who does not have this feature and he always has to clear stones from his yard in the spring. I have done his drive so his wife can get home during a snow storm when he is working. He is always commenting about how nice my tractor works compared to his. It does take some experience to know the best angle, but once you are dialed in, I think it works great.

 

[WaxMan]

I have 150 hrs on my tractor, with over 1 hundred hours on using my Electronic Fel indicator. Never ever a failure.
It is truly amazing how much I rely on the green light, its like second nature to me now, green light, good to go no matter where the bucket is.
The bad side, I think if I use another tractor without one I wouldn't know how to operate it.

 

[WaxMan]

You're exactly right. The level indicator only indicates that the buck is level with the tractor - not with the ground.

I'm sorry to say, while I was originally excited to hear about them and couldn't wait to get one, I find that they're next to useless as far as helping level the bucket. The rod has a bend in it and is exactly at the bend when the bucket is level. That's pretty much the same no-help as the white piece of tape that came on my bucket.

You should give it another try. You want the bucket at the same plane as the tractor. (which is on the ground) I see no purpose at all to have the tractor all cockeyed and the bucket level.

 

[paulfun9]

You should give it another try. You want the bucket at the same plane as the tractor. (which is on the ground) I see no purpose at all to have the tractor all cockeyed and the bucket level.

This would be good only if all the earth was level. Some of us have ground that is not completely level and never will be so our buckets need to be at differing angles compared to the tractor.
My ground isn't all level and never will be but I still find the indicator a help in always getting the right starting point.

 

[gwdixon]

One simple option is to weld a 2" x 4" piece of flat plate on the top of your bucket in a place that can always, and easily, be seen from the tractor's seat.

Use a carpenter's level to figure when the bucket's bottom is perfectly flat. Then use the level to place the flat plate on the top edge and weld it in place. The flat plate will always be parallel to the bottom of the bucket.

This is not an original idea at all. Smaller Kubota tractors had this feature until just recently. Wish I had a photo of it. OOOH...found a couple.

Look at the top right side of this bucket:

 

[Paul N]

WaxMan, you have a really good idea there. I can see how it would work well for grading. However, for my application, I could use something different. When picking up round bales off the ground, I can't see the spear in front of me, and when unloading off of a truck or wagon, sometimes the spear is out of view. Also, when feeding silage from a bag or bunker, I want the bucket level, so I don't dig into the dirt. What I'm getting at, is that I need some way to know when the spear or bucket is level with the earth no matter what position the loader arms or tractor is in. I like your electric light idea. I'm wondering if there might be a way to implement some tilt switches in a safe place, like behind the bucket frame. Maybe 3 switches, 1 for level, 1 for 5 degrees above, and 1 for 5 degrees below. I know that mercury switches aren't available anymore, but there should be suitable replacements.

 

[bcp]

Somewhere out there is a digital angle gauge with a remote sensor or display.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rem...Gauge&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch

Bruce

 

[WaxMan]

This would be good only if all the earth was level. Some of us have ground that is not completely level and never will be so our buckets need to be at differing angles compared to the tractor.
My ground isn't all level and never will be but I still find the indicator a help in always getting the right starting point.

I'm not talking here about people who use a level indicator and those that don't.
And I'm not talking about my electronic indicator either.
Everyone has there way of doing it. Everyone needs to know the level of their bucket, that is a fact.

No matter how you use your tractor everyone has some means they use to level the bucket. Whether by eye, feel, rod indicator, or bent piece of metal on top the bucket.
Everyone uses some method or they just can't use the tractor if they can't get the bucket somewhat level.

Its when people say it's only level once on the ground that bugs me. Everyone needs to know the bucket is level on the ground one way or another.
We can all agree on that right.

Paulfun9 Please give me a detailed situation where you need your bucket level on the ground where your tractor is going up or down a hill, where the bucket has to be different then where the six feet of ground the four wheels of the tractor are sitting. And how many times would you be in that situation?

I'm not being a wise guy, I just don't know the answer.
I only have about a 1,000 hrs as a tractor operator and have not been in that situation where I was completely bewildered, and wish I had some other means of leveling my bucket while my tractor was off level. I just don't know the answer.

I do know I have been scooping things up and grading while on a hill , (up or down) and I always wanted the bucket at the same plane as the tractor once on the ground.
Because the tractor was also on the hill or uneven ground. Level was only important to me once the bucket was on the ground.

I have wanted to tip the bucket up or down "off level" many, many times and do it all the time, the best guide to do that with certainly is a level indicator of some sort.

The only other option is a self leveling bucket that keeps the bucket level at any height the fel arms are. They have that, it's an expensive series of complicated arms, levers and hydraulics that will keep your pallet or bucket level as you lift it high loading a truck or something. It has absolutely nothing to do with ground level. And is not available for tractors our size.
This would be good for loading truck with bails of hay or pallets all day long. Neither is what I do many times over.
So as you say the earth is not level?o if you would explain the situation that you find yourself in.

 

[WaxMan]

Somewhere out there is a digital angle gauge with a remote sensor or display.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rem...Gauge&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch

Bruce

If your bucket was truly level as if you had a 3 ft bubble level on it, and your tractor is off level, Once on the ground your bucket will be digging or riding hi if not on the same plane as the tractor.
That is why they don't have one.

I will ask you the same question why is it important to have your bucket true level when your tractor is not.

 

[WaxMan]

WaxMan, you have a really good idea there. I can see how it would work well for grading. However, for my application, I could use something different. When picking up round bales off the ground, I can't see the spear in front of me, and when unloading off of a truck or wagon, sometimes the spear is out of view. Also, when feeding silage from a bag or bunker, I want the bucket level, so I don't dig into the dirt. What I'm getting at, is that I need some way to know when the spear or bucket is level with the earth no matter what position the loader arms or tractor is in. I like your electric light idea. I'm wondering if there might be a way to implement some tilt switches in a safe place, like behind the bucket frame. Maybe 3 switches, 1 for level, 1 for 5 degrees above, and 1 for 5 degrees below. I know that mercury switches aren't available anymore, but there should be suitable replacements.

I guess while I was writing my big long story you posted this, If you read at the bottom of post 10 I talked about the ONLY option to do that.

I'm wondering if there might be a way to implement some tilt switches in a safe place, like behind the bucket frame. Maybe 3 switches, 1 for level, 1 for 5 degrees above, and 1 for 5 degrees below. I know that mercury switches aren't available anymore, but there should be suitable replacements.

That is just how mine works with the three sensors
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/296930-electronic-fel-level-indicator.html

I also went a step further where I have it auto stop at level.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...13-electronic-bucket-level-indicator-now.html

 

[bcp]

I will ask you the same question why is it important to have your bucket true level when your tractor is not.

I don't need one. I only provided a possible answer for those who want one.



Bruce

 

[Paul N]

I will ask you the same question why is it important to have your bucket true level when your tractor is not.

In a farm application, loading or unloading bales can take place in many awkward positions. The truck may be fairly level, but the tractor may be in mud, snow, in the cow yard, in a ditch, or out on a hilly field. A self leveling bucket wouldn't be as useful as a true level indicator.

 

[WaxMan]

In a farm application, loading or unloading bales can take place in many awkward positions. The truck may be fairly level, but the tractor may be in mud, snow, in the cow yard, in a ditch, or out on a hilly field. A self leveling bucket wouldn't be as useful as a true level indicator.

In that case the operator has to have the skills to fudge it. The self leveling bucket is what they use for that.
I don't think a true level indicator would be useful to you at all
here is my reason why

The only way to get true level is a bubble level. Either digital or bubble. You can put one on your bucket for those special situations I guess.

But think about it, take your level out of the garage and tip it back and forth and center the bubble between the two lines.
Very sensitive isn't it. Now think about doing that with your joystick. And keep it there while you travel over uneven ground mud snow etc. How much time are you going to spend trying to get the level back and forth with the joy stick.

This is way they don't have them, it would be almost unusable for ground work. You would get it level with a stopped tractor "Only" but the minute you move there goes level.

Sorry for highjacking the thread. I'll just say this and leave you guys alone.

If your bucket is "true level" "Not" on the plain of the tractor you could be digging when you don't want to, Or your tip of your bucket will be Up off the ground and riding over stuff and not doing what you want.

Any bucket indicator that I know of Does Not work off true level. All bucket level indicators work off the plane of the tractor, the ground the 4 wheels are sitting.
Otherwise your tractor fel indicator with a bubble gauge on it would only be good for truly level ground and nothing else.

Like someone said the earth is not level. Correct, That is why you don't want a true bubble level indicator.

 

[jlgurr]

I will ask you the same question why is it important to have your bucket true level when your tractor is not.

I will make a couple quick sketches of my situations today and post them. Pictures are worth a thousand words...

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[skyhook]

Ok, for some this may be a silly question but curiosity is getting the best of me... Came up on it again this weekend with a small project. My FEL is narrow enough that I can usually lean to the side and be sure the bucket is level with the ground. Noticed some have installed their own indicators and also that some tractors even come with one from the factory. What I have not seen is an explanation as to how they indicate level.

The reason it nags at me is because the "angle" of my bucket to make it level with the ground changes depending on the height of the ground relative to the tractor as well as the forward/rearward tilt of the tractor. Another way to say this might be that if I was working on a raised ledge in front of the tractor then my loader bucket will be closer to full tilt but still level with the work because the loader is already up in the air a bit.

So does the bucket level indicator take into consideration the height of the work? If it doesn't does that mean it is only accurate when the working height is in the same plane as the tractor tires.

Thanks,
Jeff

You make a good point, but lets not forget, these "level" indicators can be adjusted for the
type of work you require.
You can level your bucket on a "slope" for instance, to grade "with" the slope as opposed to
a true 'flat level" grade.
In theory, if your coming down a slope with a leveled bucket for that slope,
and you now come onto a true level surface, you will actually start to create a "slope"
with your "leveled" bucket.

 

[jlgurr]

I will make a couple quick sketches of my situations today and post them. Pictures are worth a thousand words...

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[skyhook]

I don't understand how that loader could possibly work without, cylinders.

 

[Gary Fowler]

There is nothing like experience running the FEL to gain eye/hand coordination to visually see that the bucket is level with the horizon not the hill you are working on. NO instrument is going to beat that ability. Having a good "level head" is one of the things that make a good operator of dirt equipment (dozers, land planes, excavators, box blades, etc.) A new piece of equipment may take a bit of time to observe how the top looks when it is level which is what the little flat plates on some Kubota buckets are for, it is up to the operator to determine when that plate is level with the work surface.
In order to get that determination, it will take a bit of experience and eye coordination that some folks just don't seem to have.

I levelled the pad for my 52 x30 shop by eyeballing it and when the contractor checked it with a surveyor level, it was within 1" of level at all corners of the slab. This was cutting down a hill, sloping the sides of the hill on the high side and making a level surface across the foundation. The hill was sloping in 2 directions also. I can say I was rather proud of my work to be that close when I finished.