Improving your welding?

[Arc weld]

The fact is some people don't want to hear the truth. I have always tried to give clear and easy to understand explanations why I offer the advice I give. If you were to go back and look at posts where I appear to be condescending or rude, was I the one who started off being rude? I remember several years ago when a beginner posted a picture of his 7018 welds. I said they looked really good for just learning to weld. Then somebody made a comment like, "The welding god has spoken." and I took exception to it. Then he made a grave mistake and posted a picture of his welding cart. It was a joke! I pointed out several flaws with it and then he really starts in with the name calling and saying it was just the prototype. "You're going to build another hideous contraption like you've already built?" Did he deserve it? I thought so and several others agreed with me.

Contrary to what some people think, Shield Arc, myself and several other highly qualified welders on this forum weren't born welders and had to learn just like anybody else. We are genuinely trying to offer the best advice we can based on our experience. Do we know everything? No, but we never claimed to either. Some posters remind me a lot of a few first year apprentice's I worked with fresh out of school. Instead of them wanting to learn how to do things the right way, they were going to show us how to do it a better way. Sometimes they had good ideas but often you just go along with them knowing they'll run into a problem. If they don't want to listen, what else can you do? Why do we know they'll run into a problem? Because we've probably tried the same thing in the past too. Good advice can come from anyone but sometimes experience tells you that the advice isn't as good as originally thought. I'd rather error on the side of caution than hope something will be OK. I can certainly understand why Shield Arc gets PO'd at some posters and he knows his stuff when it comes to welding and fabricating! To say he doesn't is beyond insulting. This is a welding forum. It's not a hobby forum or a pro forum, just a welding forum. There's been a view posts about welding bucket hooks and pallet forks and that's certainly not something you hope will hold.

 

[swlman2]

where is shield arc anyway, i figured he would chime in and help u out?!!

 

[Happy Gilmore]

There seems to be a debate going on so I thought I would ask what the members on here think. This will help me decide if I can offer any help or not. Would you prefer advice from experienced professionals who weld(ed) for a living or would you prefer advice from people who are hobbyists with no formal training? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other but since this is member forum, I'd like see what the members prefer.

I appreciate what you guys offer up for sure, I like a professional opinion. Especially when I'm told about my backyard find SA200 Redface

 

[Shield Arc]

where is shield arc anyway, i figured he would chime in and help u out?!!

Oh Arc weld is a big boy, he doesn't need my help! I've known Arc weld for quite a few years. I respect the man, and his welding knowledge. I thought I was doing this forum a great service by inviting Arc weld here! I read, and learn from every post he makes. Some subjects I already know and he reminds me of that. Other things he posts I flat did not know, and I learn from him! I truly believe he is a great asset to this forum, I know he is a great asset to me!:cool2:

 

[rmully]

Oh Arc weld is a big boy, he doesn't need my help! I've known Arc weld for quite a few years. I respect the man, and his welding knowledge. I thought I was doing this forum a great service by inviting Arc weld here! I read, and learn from every post he makes. Some subjects I already know and he reminds me of that. Other things he posts I flat did not know, and I learn from him! I truly believe he is a great asset to this forum, I know he is a great asset to me!:cool2:

Both of you have a lot of knowledge and just want to say just ignore negativity and keep posting as so many others appreciate your knowledge and experience ….. you guys have earned bragging rights.

 

[orezok]

First off, this post is NOT directed at anyone, just an observation during my 40+ years of construction management.

Quite often a tradesman will tell me that they have 10, 20, 30 years of experience.

When you observe their work, you realize what they have is 1 years experience 30 times over!

There are some very experienced professional pros on this site and a lot of 1 year "pros"

 

[Walkin Horse]

I don't know if this was directed at me or not? Shield Arc, myself and others have been saying all along that you can't always judge a welds quality just by visual inspection, especially with MIG and even more so with a 120 volt MIG on 3/16" and 1/4" plate. We've done test plates/pipes to get certified and some "hobby welder"(his words) comes along saying test plates aren't real world welding and a waste of time for hobby welders. He can offer better advice because he has to design and build all his projects and us "pro"(his words again) welders have all the designing, engineering and fitting done for us so all we have to do is weld.

You have a lot of experience Walking Horse. What would your advice be for someone wanted to get set up to do their own welding on a variety projects and repairs? Would you recommend a 120 volt MIG for 3/16" and 1/4" material? Would you trust someone that says, "My welds look good therefore they must be good"?

I had a picky inspector one time that made me run another pass on a 3/4" fillet weld, on a slip-on flange, because he said there was undercut. I took my fingernail and flicked it right off... it was mill scale on the pipe but I still had to run a small pass with 1/8" to satisfy him. People on here don't have to be that picky but I think should be made aware that pushing the limits of a small machine or trusting the "look" of a weld may not produce the desired weld quality/strength. If members here don't want to hear this, we don't really need to respond. I guess I'm asking if the members on here want to know this? :confused3:

I guess I must admit that after a day at work I don't usually look at the weld threads. So I probably took the thread out of context.
At home I use a little Miller 110/230 suitcase to do most of my welding. But it is running off of 230. I have a bobcat for any heavy welding. No I wouldn't recommend a wire feeder for that. But I didn't realize that is what this thread was about. I opened it because I thought I was going to get that one tip that would help me. ( improve your welding).
In defense of your condescending ways, hey that's construction workers. I have told a few guys that their welds wouldn't hold shelled corn. I asked one guy where he learned to weld. He said that he learned while incarcerated. As I threw his his coupon in the scrape bin I said why don't you go ask the judge for a little more time.
Oh well I have forgotten the point of all this so I'm off to the hydraulic forum to ask some questions about tractors.

 

[J F]

I said why don't you go ask the judge for a little more time.

:laughing:

 

[NS Gearhead]

What would your advice be for someone wanted to get set up to do their own welding on a variety projects and repairs? Would you recommend a 120 volt MIG for 3/16" and 1/4" material? Would you trust someone that says, "My welds look good therefore they must be good"?

Well... is 1/4" the max they're welding? I would. 90% of my welding is 1/8, 3/16, & 1/4" with a Linclon 140. Haven't had a weld fail yet... so yes, it's "good enough". Could it be better? Absolutely. Is it needed? No. Do you swat flies with a sledge hammer? See my point?

"Looks good must be good?" Well if it looks like sh*t then it's obviously bad. LOL! Settings are off, metal's dirty, or improper ground.... if it looks good those things must be in check... if you've got some blueing near the weld then you must have got some decent heat in there.... don't get me wrong, overkill is a good thing... but don't dismiss the right tool for the job just because you've got bigger tools at your disposal.

Your original post does make you sound like you got your feelings hurt and you're looking to get your ego stroked. If someone doesn't want to take your advice... well take it as being their loss and move on. Sounds like you've got alot to offer this forum, but to make it sound like non-pros don't isn't cool.

 

[Shield Arc]

First off, this post is NOT directed at anyone, just an observation during my 40+ years of construction management.

Quite often a tradesman will tell me that they have 10, 20, 30 years of experience.

When you observe their work, you realize what they have is 1 years experience 30 times over!

There are some very experienced professional pros on this site and a lot of 1 year "pros"

This is so true! And I'm as guilty as anyone. I went to 3-years of welding school. I served my apprenticeship as a Millwright, worked out of the Sheet Metal union for 3-years in a welding Fab shop. Worked the rest of my life as a Pile Driver. The 3-years I spent in the Fab shop I learned more about welding, lay out, and how to Fab things more than anywhere else. Belonged to the Carpenter's union all my life, and I'm the worst carpenter on the planet!

In defense of your condescending ways, hey that's construction workers. I have told a few guys that their welds wouldn't hold shelled corn. I asked one guy where he learned to weld. He said that he learned while incarcerated. As I threw his his coupon in the scrape bin I said why don't you go ask the judge for a little more time.

One company I was working for hired me a new partner to help sheet a 80' x 80' x 70-feet tall building with 4' x 8' sheet of 10-GA. His first day he had to rip a 3/4-inch thick plate with a torch. I walked by him when he was done. I asked him what brand of chainsaw he used to make that cut!:laughing:

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I have told a few guys that their welds wouldn't hold shelled corn. I asked one guy where he learned to weld. He said that he learned while incarcerated. As I threw his his coupon in the scrape bin I said why don't you go ask the judge for a little more time.

Hahaha!! :laughing:

 

[kevin37b]

It sure don't take much to get everyones panties in a wad around here . SA and AW are two of the best on this forum . Iwelded for 20 years , and still learn from them .

 

[Arc weld]

Well... is 1/4" the max they're welding? I would. 90% of my welding is 1/8, 3/16, & 1/4" with a Linclon 140. Haven't had a weld fail yet... so yes, it's "good enough". Could it be better? Absolutely. Is it needed? No. Do you swat flies with a sledge hammer? See my point?

"Looks good must be good?" Well if it looks like sh*t then it's obviously bad. LOL! Settings are off, metal's dirty, or improper ground.... if it looks good those things must be in check... if you've got some blueing near the weld then you must have got some decent heat in there.... don't get me wrong, overkill is a good thing... but don't dismiss the right tool for the job just because you've got bigger tools at your disposal.

Your original post does make you sound like you got your feelings hurt and you're looking to get your ego stroked. If someone doesn't want to take your advice... well take it as being their loss and move on. Sounds like you've got alot to offer this forum, but to make it sound like non-pros don't isn't cool.

Nobodies talking about overkill. Lincoln was the last major welding manufacturer to get into MIG welding. They were way behind Airco, Linde, Hobart, Miller, etc.,etc. Do you know why... MIG is famous for having what looks like a perfect weld but when tested will not have the required strength due to cold lap or other internal flaws. James F Lincoln wasn't going to sell machines that were so easy to have hidden flaws. I learned this at a Lincoln demo center.

Telling newbies a 120 volt MIG is a good choice for 1/4" isn't sound advice in my opinion. Oddly, most of these machines only recommend 3/16" as the max. capacity. Am I missing something? Can somebody with experience do sound welds on 1/4", sure but most newbies aren't going to know what to do to make it work. They'll just figure that guy did it so I can do it too. Using a machine over it's capacity is the same as using too small of rods on thick steel. Can someone with experience make it work, yes but who really wants to spend more time grinding, prepping and preheating than actually welding.:confused3:

“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
― Bertrand Russell

 

[Reverser]

“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
― Bertrand Russell

HMM!! Interesting quote.
While taken out of context, I assume that you are in effect saying that you are the Grand Poobah of intelligence and guidance. And those that don't listen to your advice, are the Great Unwashed Masses of stupidity and woeful ignorance??

Interesting concept. :laughing:

 

[Arc weld]

No, I find it very interesting that the welders with experience in the trade question welds and do tests to prove their technique but some "hobby" welders just hope for the best. :confused2:

 

[zzvyb6]

I deliberately flunked a night school welding class 5 times in order to learn process, technique, appearance and appropriate tools (torch, MIG and TIG) from a guy who welded submarine nuclear reactors for a living before retiring to be a night school teacher.

But it took a hobbyist (from this forum in fact) to point out that the difficulty I was having striking an arc on my Thunderbolt was caused by having the 60 foot leads all coiled up on a rack while only using the last 8 feet for the job. You don't get that from book learning...

 

[newbury]

<snip>The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
― Bertrand Russell

That is not just the modern world. That's evolution. The trouble in the modern world is for example that one mans mistake on welding his trailer kills the family behind him on the highway. Doesn't remove the person that makes the mistake.

No, I find it very interesting that the welders with experience in the trade question welds and do tests to prove their technique but some "hobby" welders just hope for the best. :confused2:

Some of the "hobby" welders, like "hobby" farmers, "hobby" electricians, "hobby" carpenters etc. don't know any better. If it looks good it must be good, right?

I've got 4 workshops in Mississippi that looks like they were initially constructed by qualified contractors. One seems to have been later "rewired" for adding overhead fluorescent lights using used orange 14 gauge extension cord with the ground plugs cut off and LOTS of electrical tape. These are being replaced. Places where they just ran PVC plumbing outside and it shattered over a winter.

Some of the stuff they did was welding aluminum. They built about 150' long of shelves and a 8' x 4' table base out of 1x1 square aluminum tubing. It generally took about 5 good swings with a 5 lb sledge to break the welds. The table self disintegrated. I'd call them "hobby" welders, plumbers, electricians.

I put a lot of stuff together, electrical, plumbing, carpentry with a duct tape and superglue approach. But I don't suspect it to last and if it's needed past the first immediate patch I replace it with a permanent solution.

I know for my first "projects", besides chips together to beat them apart, I'm going to focus on things that cannot result in injury to people if the welds fail.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Can't we all just weld along :laughing:

 

[Arc weld]

We've been waiting with great suspense to hear how your welding course is going?

 

[Hiltz]

This is so true! And I'm as guilty as anyone. I went to 3-years of welding school. I served my apprenticeship as a Millwright, worked out of the Sheet Metal union for 3-years in a welding Fab shop. Worked the rest of my life as a Pile Driver. The 3-years I spent in the Fab shop I learned more about welding, lay out, and how to Fab things more than anywhere else. Belonged to the Carpenter's union all my life, and I'm the worst carpenter on the planet!


I don't understand why you continually are posting your resume'. Well actually I do. I don't think you are really here on this site to help people. I think you are here to pump up your own ego. I have read numerous posts here where your main focus has been to degrade members who have legitimate questions. Sprinkled among the numerous putdowns and self serving pats on the back might be some helpful comments but your main focus is to inflate your own ego. I have met people like you who profess to helping others but in reality its all about making yourself the main focus of attention. Sorry but I have to put you on my ignore list.