Improving your welding?

[Walkin Horse]

Ok no more of the hypothetical BS answers. Lawyer your the only ones that are allowed to answer any questions about trespass. Accounts step up and answer the finance questions. Doctor why are my eyes burning after I welded. ( professional opinions only please )English teachers correct my grammar. Don't want any old farmer telling me I left the tittle off of my i.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I always do the best job I can in terms of functionality and craftsmanship. Doesn't matter if it is framing a roof, welding a bracket, or just cleaning the floor. Years ago, I used the attached diagram to explain this to a nephew who was frustrated with a skilsaw. I told him, you might end up in the middle box for lack of skill, material, tool, or time. That happens, and it is not the worst thing in the world. But, next time you will be able to do better. With respect to the current conversation, I read TBN because I can learn how to do things better and at a higher level of craftsmanship. So I am grateful to all those, whether they be farmers or welders or hobbyists, who make that possible.

 

[CNC Dan]

There seems to be a debate going on so I thought I would ask what the members on here think. This will help me decide if I can offer any help or not. Would you prefer advice from experienced professionals who weld(ed) for a living or would you prefer advice from people who are hobbyists with no formal training?

I want both.
But if I had to chose, it would be the pros.

 

[CaptPicky]

I'm newly retired and really want to learn how to weld. I can build anything out of wood but no metal experience. I love to learn how to do it the best way I can with the equipment I can currently purchase. Right now I might have to do it ugly to get by because it's the best I can with a machine I can buy. I wish I had access to expensive welding equipment, plasma cutters, etc but for now I'm hoping to get a small mig welder. I think we should always try and perfect a skill but sometimes it takes time and money. The one thing I won't do is cheat on safety. The weld might be ugly but it's strong. I use to love watching Norm Abram on the New Yankee Workshop but it was hard to relate when he would use a 10,000 dollar machine when all I have is a $500 machine.

 

[pmsmechanic]

This tread is an interesting read. I'll take advice from anyone because you never know when you'll get a gem. It can be from a pro or an amateur. I reserve the right to apply what I think is the best solution to the problem that I have. If I choose the wrong one and make a mistake then I'm that much wiser for next time. At my age I shouldn't be making a lot of mistakes but it doesn't always work out that way. I like to tell myself that it's amazing what a person can do when you don't know that you can't do it.

 

[newbury]

Thanks Furu. I was very fortunate to have an awesome welding teacher in high school. I really sucked when I first tried welding but was always fascinated by what you could build with metal.

I've learned all kinds of things from all kinds of people, either beginners or seasoned pro's. You can learn a lot from someone who's done something you've never done before. I guess what I was getting at is do the members on this forum have a good enough attitude or are they wanting to do the best they can and keep improving? Since it has been suggested that this is a hobbyist/farmer forum, is the good enough approach acceptable? If it is, maybe there's no need for us welder pigs with 30 year old scar tissue? :duh:

Yeah, who needs the voice of experience? Many of us don't know what the "best" is and consequently for us the first step beyond super glue is good enough. Now when you get off into xray testing which I suspect is far beyond the average wallet of the average member I often stop reading.

I only know of one poster that stated that this was a hobbyist/farmer forum. He has been very adamant that it is. I personally thought it was a forum for folks to share ideas and knowledge and to help others by sharing their knowledge from the backgrounds that they come from so that others may learn.

If it is indeed a true statement that TBN is only a hobbyist/farmer forum (I disagree as there are many folks of many varied professions and fields, look at land clearing equipment, construction equipment, Ag machinery sub forums in TBN) I think that it is an insult and a slap in the face to imply however that just because you are a hobbyist/farmer (not that those are in anyway related as farmers are the professional folks that keep us fed and they are not doing it as a hobby) that you are not interested in learning how to do something the correct way or to improve your skills at whatever task you are doing.

Sorry about the run-on sentence

AS usual Furu you save me a bunch of typing. I would maintain that this is a hobbyist tractor owner forum. Most of us are exceedingly frugal and trying to get what we perceive as the most for each $. As far as welding goes I didn't have a desire to learn to weld. But I do have a desire to add some bucket hooks, patch a trailer step, make a base for my chipper, patch a bucket crack, and the list grows daily. "Basic welding" doesn't look like rocket science. However the advice of

welder pigs with 30 year old scar tissue

is greatly appreciated as to the myriad of choices between rods and settings.

Bottom line as I see it? You learn from everyone. I have great appreciation for guys with gray hair-be they doctors, pilots or welders. and having spent 44+ years in a haz mat industry I can tell you that not all pro's will have the same answer.

As for "hackers" like myself, sometimes if for no other reason you get some encouragement from the non-pro who shares a story here. Hmnn..."I guess I'm not the only dumb one"

I always tell people about this web site and what makes it so great- a collection of so may individuals with varying levels of experience and ability and on a wide range of subjects.

Red Horse is right. I suppose this is do to the ongoing feud centering around 120V welders only. But there is a line between enough power to eventually get the job done and getting it soon enough to be worthwhile. You can move a mountain of dirt with a small tractor, it just takes longer. But viewing a lot of the threads here the

welder pigs with 30 year old scar tissue

have convinced me that it's very difficult to produce good welds with underpowered equipment.

 

[rmully]

I welcome all help but someone that welds for a living has the experience? I get better every day and learn so much ?.thanks to all who post. I used to think, how difficult can welding be? Now I know better.

 

[jaotguy]

toss 'em both into the mix ... let the Poster decide for himself ...

( the same as anyone following the thread )

any advise is FREE ... you can choose to use it or lose it .... best of both worlds ...:thumbsup:



"welder pigs with 30 year old scar tissue" you forgot to mention the "cataracts" too

 

[k0ua]

If you want to see the results of not getting enough penetration on thick metal with a MIG have a look at post 10 of the thread below. There is still a photo there. Please follow the discussion of the thread and you will get the idea..

If you don't have enough heat, you cannot penetrate the heavy parent metal enough to make good solid welds. It is as simple as that. You can make all the pretty welds in the world, but without penetration they won't hold up for long. Small MIGS have their place, and that place is welding lightweight materiel's. There is nothing wrong with the MIG process, in fact there is a whole lot right about it, but it has to have enough heat to penetrate the base metal, not just lay on some pretty bead. This often requires a 220 Volt machine with some heat in its azz.

All I am trying to say here is that as weldor's we are supposed to have brains enough to know when we need a machine with more heat when we are facing a job that requires it. That is ALL I am saying, I am not trying to back anyone up or pee in anyone's Post Toasties..

Any welder is better than no welder at all, but as Clint Eastwood once said "A man has got to know his limitations"..:thumbsup: Weld on!

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...aling-flat-toothbar-2.html?highlight=toothbar

 

[newbury]

<snip>
If you don't have enough heat, you cannot penetrate the heavy parent metal enough to make good solid welds. It is as simple as that. You can make all the pretty welds in the world, but without penetration they won't hold up for long. <snip>

And that's why I appreciate the knowledge of

welder pigs with 30 year old scar tissue

who can just take a look at the work and a few facts and give a thumbs up or down, I don't need pretty, I need safe.

 

[Underdog57]

I trust the experts, nothing beats experience, and getting free lessons from some great teachers is priceless. I also like seeing everyones projects no matter how they did it, such great ideas here!!

 

[dragoneggs]

Hey Arc, with all due respect I am not sure I understand the intent of your post. Why do I have to choose? To me the answer is obvious and it isn't just one or the other of your two stated options.

 

[Reverser]

He only wants love and attention. What's wrong with that? :confused3:

 

[Hiltz]

There seems to be a debate going on so I thought I would ask what the members on here think. This will help me decide if I can offer any help or not. Would you prefer advice from experienced professionals who weld(ed) for a living or would you prefer advice from people who are hobbyists with no formal training? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other but since this is member forum, I'd like see what the members prefer.

This post seems to me the as the author needs some positive reinforcement. Seriously what kind of question is that?

 

[Walkin Horse]

It's a wonder the OP can get his head in a hardhat. I have been welding for 35 years. I'm a level 1 cwi. I run the pipe fab shop for a large mechanical contractor. There's times when guys come in to test that I really have a hard time shooting their welds down. I can't see inside it so I send it to the guy that has the ultimate sayso. Let him turn it down after he bends it or X-rays. So how could one guys advice on the internet be so good or right without shining a lite on it or sticking a mirror on it or running his fingernails around it to feel the undercut. I guess because somebody on the internet said its so. So believe it.

 

[Arc weld]

Hey Arc, with all due respect I am not sure I understand the intent of your post. Why do I have to choose? To me the answer is obvious and it isn't just one or the other of your two stated options.

Quite simple really. If the members prefer advice from hobbyist's/farmers that weld on occasion, us so called "pro's" don't need to get involved. There's lot's of other places we can hang out.

 

[Furu]

This post seems to me the as the author needs some positive reinforcement. Seriously what kind of question is that?

It's a wonder the OP can get his head in a hardhat. I have been welding for 35 years. I'm a level 1 cwi. I run the pipe fab shop for a large mechanical contractor. There's times when guys come in to test that I really have a hard time shooting their welds down. I can't see inside it so I send it to the guy that has the ultimate sayso. Let him turn it down after he bends it or X-rays. So how could one guys advice on the internet be so good or right without shining a lite on it or sticking a mirror on it or running his fingernails around it to feel the undercut. I guess because somebody on the internet said its so. So believe it.

Reference these statements......................

The question in post 1 of this thread, I believe, was asked as a result of many threads that have been going for the last 2+ weeks.

Taking the question out of context of those other threads does tend to mislead the readers of the first post in this thread unless they are aware of all that has been going on.

 

[Arc weld]

It's a wonder the OP can get his head in a hardhat. I have been welding for 35 years. I'm a level 1 cwi. I run the pipe fab shop for a large mechanical contractor. There's times when guys come in to test that I really have a hard time shooting their welds down. I can't see inside it so I send it to the guy that has the ultimate sayso. Let him turn it down after he bends it or X-rays. So how could one guys advice on the internet be so good or right without shining a lite on it or sticking a mirror on it or running his fingernails around it to feel the undercut. I guess because somebody on the internet said its so. So believe it.

I don't know if this was directed at me or not? Shield Arc, myself and others have been saying all along that you can't always judge a welds quality just by visual inspection, especially with MIG and even more so with a 120 volt MIG on 3/16" and 1/4" plate. We've done test plates/pipes to get certified and some "hobby welder"(his words) comes along saying test plates aren't real world welding and a waste of time for hobby welders. He can offer better advice because he has to design and build all his projects and us "pro"(his words again) welders have all the designing, engineering and fitting done for us so all we have to do is weld.

You have a lot of experience Walking Horse. What would your advice be for someone wanted to get set up to do their own welding on a variety projects and repairs? Would you recommend a 120 volt MIG for 3/16" and 1/4" material? Would you trust someone that says, "My welds look good therefore they must be good"?

I had a picky inspector one time that made me run another pass on a 3/4" fillet weld, on a slip-on flange, because he said there was undercut. I took my fingernail and flicked it right off... it was mill scale on the pipe but I still had to run a small pass with 1/8" to satisfy him. People on here don't have to be that picky but I think should be made aware that pushing the limits of a small machine or trusting the "look" of a weld may not produce the desired weld quality/strength. If members here don't want to hear this, we don't really need to respond. I guess I'm asking if the members on here want to know this? :confused3:

 

[Reverser]

Quite simple really. If the members prefer advice from hobbyist's/farmers that weld on occasion, us so called "pro's" don't need to get involved. There's lot's of other places we can hang out.

Dragoneggs is right! No one has to choose and take one side against the other. That is just causing division on here.

Everyone has the right to post. Even ones you disagree with have a right to post their pictures and say what they like about their own projects, without your rapping them on the knuckles, telling them they need to better themselves.

As far as you saying "there's lots of other places we can hang out". That's true and several on here are also members of other welding boards, and give good advice on here. This is a welding forum on a "tractor" website where most everything is tied into the ownership of tractors and everything related to tractors. So it's not a 100% welding website, like Hobart, Miller, Welding Web, AWS, etc.

As far as I know, the only other forum that I've seen your posts on is another tractor forum website that doesn't have a welding forum. But every time someone posts a question about welding on their "Tools" forum, you jump on it like a duck on a June Bug. Sometimes you're helpful and sometimes you're rude. I've seen you make people mad by telling them the same things you say here about their AC machines. Or answering their questions in a condescending way.

Telling them their AC welding machines are only good for door stops or boat anchors, and only belong in the scrap bin is disrespectful and UN-professional. Some people on these forums don't have much money to spend on welding machines, so what they have may be all they can afford.

You have a lot of knowledge and can be very helpful and it is appreciated. There are other welding pro's on this site that are very respectful and by their advice, they are invaluable to this forum. The non-pro's and hobbyists also have and can give good down to earth advice with hands on experience.

Now, lets all join hands and sing. :laughing: