Buying Advice Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor?

/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #1  

mo1

Platinum Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
695
Location
SW Missouri
Tractor
JD 5075E
Hello all, longtime listener but first-time caller...er, poster.

I recently had the luck to buy a house on a dozen mostly wooded acres in southwest MO not terribly far from Springfield. There is about a half acre of open lawn as well as about an acre of fenced-in paddock the current owner is using for keeping horses. The rest is wooded with 1-2 foot diameter oaks and mostly rolling but there's a bit of a draw where a wet-weather creek runs in part of it. The driveway is a concrete apron with a ~100 foot long gravel driveway. I am looking for a recommendation on a tractor for property maintenance. Here's roughly what I want to be able to do:

- Mow the lawn in a reasonable amount of time, which for me would be no more than about two hours. I'll get a guy with a good-sized cat to come in sometime and knock some trees over and smooth the grade to make about 2-3 acres of lawn in total. There aren't currently and shouldn't be a lot of obstacles to mow around. I am leaning towards getting something in the neighborhood of a 72-90" 3 point finish mower for this.

- Rough cut the fenced-in paddock and the ditches. The paddock will have a garden inside of it as well as berry bushes and fruit trees per my wife so there will be some obstacles. I'd get an inexpensive 5 to 6 foot rough-cut mower to do this as it would only need to be done a handful of times per year.

- Till up a garden. My Dad now has a 7-foot-wide 3-pt unit (King Kutter, I believe) that can till up a garden in about 10 minutes when hooked to the back of his JD 5083E. I'd much prefer to use something like that compared to the walk-behind tiller I used as a kid.

- Remove snow. There isn't a whole lot in SW MO but there are occasional big wet dumps and I have to be able to get to work without spending two hours shoveling if we get those big wet dumps. Not sure what would be the best way to attack this as I've never cleared snow with anything bigger than a shovel before and the driveway is part concrete and mostly gravel. I guess perhaps a blade would be the best way to go?

I am thinking something like a compact utility tractor in the 25-35 PTO HP range on turf or R4 tires would be what I am looking for. That should still be maneuverable but large enough to handle the kinds of implements I want to well. The only issue is that they generally start in the upper teens and most are well into the $20k range, and that is before I would even get any implements. There does not appear to be much of a used market for compact tractors either. I'd rather not have to spend that much money if I could avoid it. However the classifieds are littered with mid-60s to late-70s vintage smaller utility tractors like Ford 2000s/3000s, JD 1020s, Ford 2600s/3600s, and MF 135s selling for $3000-5000 which is much more reasonable in my book. What would you guys recommend?
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #2  
Well, you get what you pay for-a classic utility tractor will get your chores done-but there will be more maintenance, and it will not be as convenient to use-not all the comfort features of a new compact tractor (hydro transmission, power steering, etc.) Also, the older tractor will be heavier, which more be a consideration with mowing.

You did not mention if you want a FEL-again the newer tractor will probably have a quick attach FEL, which again may be a factor will the mowing.

You did mention the most appealing factor of a used utility tractor-the cost. Are you comfortable with service and repairs? there will be much more of this with a used tractor.

I have a compact tractor, and I would like to pick up a classic JD 430, 1010, etc. someday for a 2nd machine-but will never be without a late model compact.

Will
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #3  
Welcome,If you can find one in the 40-50 hp range with front-end loader that has been well maintained that is the way I would go.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #4  
Buy a good quality Zero Turn mower for your two to three acres of turf.

There is nothing wrong with a used, well maintained diesel powered tractor.

Some old tractors do not have power steering.

Generally speaking, used tractors with 2-WD will be much heavier than 4-WD tractors of 25-35 PTO HP.

How mechanically proficient are you? Used tractors, like used cars, require more maintenance.

Is your Dad close enough so you can borrow his tiller once each Spring?

You have not enumerated any ground engagement work that requires considerable power except for some snow plowing. No need for a Box Blade? Disc Harrow? Angle/Rear Blade? Landscape Rake?

What about firewood and/or skidding logs?

The single most useful tractor option is a Front End Loader.

Can you handle a stick shift in a car or truck? Geared tractors shift in the same manner. In contrast, Hydraustatic (HST) drive tractors are semi-automatic.

My Kubota 'Grand L' L3560 HST cost $27,500 new, including a number of options. It is my third and absolutely best tractor.
 
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/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #5  
I use a 1950 8N Ford, all the repairs I've ever done with the purchase of 5 implements, 1 of which was brand new I haven't spent 7g's. If I need a loader I call my good bud from a mile up and he comes down, or I can use it myself, so he keeps telling me. If your farming 20- 40g's and way upwards makes sense so giver, IMHO if your not farming why would you go into debt to get a tractor. Some old iron is wicked easy to fix.
Just my 2 pennies
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Buy a good quality Zero Turn mower for your two to three acres of turf.

There is nothing wrong with a used, well maintained diesel powered tractor.

Some old tractors do not have power steering.

Generally speaking, used tractors with 2-WD will be much heavier than 4-WD tractors of 25-35 PTO HP.

Yes, I saw that, they're generally 4000-ish pounds vs. maybe 3000 for a compact. Is that going to be a big deal with tearing up a lawn? We never mowed a lawn with am actual tractor when I was growing up. We used a little 42" deck riding lawnmower which took about 8 hours to cut the five acres of lawn we had. I'd not do that again!

How mechanically proficient are you? Used tractors, like used cars, require more maintenance.

Reasonably. I do the routine maintenance on my vehicles such as spark plugs, fluid changes, tire rotation, etc. I haven't ever really torn into one such as in rebuilding an engine or a tranny as the used cars I actually drove when growing up were mid-80s and later and all had EFI engines and electronically-controlled automatic transmissions. We didn't have to do much for repairs on my Dad's tractors either as he traded for newer, generally larger ones after about 10 years or so. I greased them, changed the filters, fluids, and a couple of batteries on them but that's it.

Is your Dad close enough so you can borrow his tiller once each Spring?

Yes, and he has a trailer to put it on too. :thumbsup:

You have not enumerated any ground engagement work that requires considerable power except for some snow plowing. No need for a Box Blade? Disc Harrow? Angle/Rear Blade? Landscape Rake?

I don't anticipate needing to do these kinds of things where I am. The only ground engagement things I can think of would be running the rototiller. Of course plans can change but I can't see where I'd need to do any sort of tillage or grading.

What about firewood and/or skidding logs?

Not likely to be an issue as we don't have any fireplaces despite being surrounded by trees. Any trees that I'd need to take down would just get chunked up into logs where they fell and we carry the logs out. That's what we've always done and it's not been that big of a deal.

The single most useful tractor option is a Front End Loader.

My Dad always had one on his tractors and they can be handy at times. It would be nice to have one but I don't think it's an absolute must-have with what work I intend to be doing, which is mainly mowing.

Can you handle a stick shift in a car or truck? Geared tractors shift in the same manner. In contrast, Hydraustatic (HST) drive tractors are semi-automatic.

I have no problems using the gear transmissions in any of my Dad's tractors I've used and they've all had gear transmissions, albeit they've all been synchronized. I've never used a unit with a hydro transmission.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #7  
Considering your situation, and the fact that you are just starting out,

Get the old tractor and see how it goes. If you purchase a NEW compact, just taking delivery will cost you the same as the old tractor outright.

Then, As time goes on, as you see the need, You have a "trade in" ;-)

But you really should keep both!

See my info for a fun combination . Hands down, I use the garden tractor MOST and that's mostly pulling a trailer , the modern compact for most anything that needs "doing", and the big old iron for snow plowing and stuff that wants a bit of grunt fastened to it. (NOTE! I don't mow grass but a tiny spot, and for that I have way too much machine even without mounting the belly mower on the Bolens. So there is a big difference in our usage. )

2 cents

cheers
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #8  
I run over lawns with my L3560, weighing 6,500 pounds, with R4 industrial tires, often, without problems. However, north Florida has exceptional drainage. We NEVER have mud.

With your experience it seems you can handle an older, geared, tractor both in terms of operation and maintenance.

JENKINSPH has a good points, perhaps a garden tractor will meet your needs.
 
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/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #9  
You need a front end loader...everybody does...even if you think you don't...it makes your tractor at least twice as useful...and saves your back and much time.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #10  
The thing you didn't mention was "time". How much of it do you have? If spare time is minimal, and mowing is your main tractor task, get a zero turn lawn mower, pay someone to till the garden and occasionally rough cut the paddock (or borrow Dad's tractor with or without Dad) ;) for the first couple few years. It will give you time to better assess your needs and maybe put a few more $$ together toward the purchase.

If free time is something you have sitting around in buckets looking for a place to be used, then consider an older tractor and all the fixings. It's a great way to use up time especially if there's no one cracking the whip to get a job done.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #11  
Yes, I saw that, they're generally 4000-ish pounds vs. maybe 3000 for a compact. Is that going to be a big deal with tearing up a lawn?
The majority of 2-WD tractors will have an additional 1,000 pounds of liquid in "loaded" rear tires. 2-WD tractors will also have deep lugged R1 ag/low flotation tires, which may tear up turf if it is wet.

Only a minority load rear tires on 4-WD tractors. Most 4-WD tractors with an FEL will have R4 Industrial Tires which are have less aggressive tread, are fatter and have more flotation.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #12  
It sounds like the majority of your work is going to be mowing and possibly occasionally moving some snow. To me it sounds like an older tractor with a live PTO or a two stage clutch would fit your bill perfectly. Loaders are nice but if you can't remove them easily they really do hinder on your turning radius and maneuverability. If your tilling a paddock that is fenced in with a loader you are going to be doing a lot of backing up and turning in order not to destroy your fences.

With what I gather with what you are looking to spend you could look into an older yanmar or an older kubota B/L series. These older tractors are usually DT's (Drive Transmission) which means gear shift without any shift on the fly. It's older technology but it is time tested and usually saves a grand or two as compared to going with an HST. The other option is going with an older 2wd tractor. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Older CUT/SCUT tractor (ie. Kubota/Yanmar) Pros. Lighter and can be found in 4wd, Tractors have a surprising amount of pulling power and are less likely to leave ruts/marks in the lawn even with running R1 ag tread tires. Smaller size may be beneficial in using areas where turning may be difficult such as woods or paddock area. Also loader option is readily available for these.
Cons: These tractors will have significantly less PTO hp due to their size usually limiting implements to 4 or 5' cat 0. Some part can be more difficult to find (particularly grey market yanmars) but yanmar this year is going full blown with their own line instead of going through cub cadet so this very well may not be an issue in the near future.

50/60s farm utility. Pros: Cost, You can usually get a lot of tractor for not much money. Much more PTO hp with a 30-40 hp farm tractor than a 20 hp SCUT even if it is a gas motor. Something to consider if one is doing a lot of mowing. The other thing is repair costs. Ask anybody which is cheaper to repair a gas or a diesel and people will tell you gas engine every time.

Cons: 2wd is the big one that comes to mind. If one is just mowing and using a tiller its not much of an issue but if you want to skid large logs 4wd sure comes in handy. Most older tractors didn't come with loaders and the ones that do have them usually are pretty weak compared to modern day loaders. That being said if one only plans to do limited dirt work a 3 point scoop will get a lot of people by. Weight is another issue. Weight for pulling is good but if you are planning on using it on finished areas such as your lawn it might be a hinderance.

Repairs for older farm tractors to me is a plus and a minus. They are older so they should be more likely to break down. Personally my oliver is a rock solid tractor and never had any major issues with it and is just as dependable as my kubota. The one thing is though it is ten times easier to work on. These old tractors just work on carbs, points and compression. To me this stuff is pretty easy to work on compared to diesels and doesn't require me to send out to get an injector serviced or pressure tested.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #13  
My noob 2 bits here:

If I picture in my mind your area....and I bought my last VW from a guy in that area...(I live up by Kansas City) I love that area...and I know the trees/woods and hills that can be in that area....just beautiful....you do know the rule...with a new tractor you have to post pics....well with this place you have to post pics of your land.

But to the task at hand...

I think without the ability to pull that bucket, heck the entire front loader part off you will have some issues moving around (again all this is by the picture in my head). You are going to want something that will turn on a dime and leave 9 cents change.

All that said I think you have the ability to keep a well running older machine running. If you have zero diesel experience I might shy away from that and look at an older gas tractor...yea not as good on fuel but I think you understand points and plugs....injection pumps not so much.

I think that a machine just for mowing if that is in the budget would be good....in the end 5ac is not that much.

But what I would do if I was you is move in....live there for a few, and really see what you are going to need....you have an idea now, but you will know after a month or so living there.

I would also say you might widen your search...look up here. I don't know if it is right for you or not, but there is a dealer up here that has a Kubota BX25 for $15,000 and the machine had 35 hours....that is less then my 3 month old machine by about half. Not sure if that is a good deal or if that is a good machine for you but just tossing that out there.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #14  
I did the old tractor thing. I bought nice looking Ford 44hp 340 Industrial with a front end loader off an old honest farmer. I am pretty mechanically inclined, I been around equipment my whole life. I paid $3000 cash and thought I was good to go. I plowed 4" of snow for a about 15 minutes before the clutch stopped working.
Turned out the fork broke. I considered having the $2500 clutch job done but then I started looking at the dry rotted front tires, the damp fittings, the hydraulic pump seemed to all of a sudden get louder, etc. So I went to the Kubota dealer and bought a BX25D brand new with a warranty and never regretted it since. Its has new tires, new hoses, new trans, new everything. Just put some diesel in and go. For the same money as my BX you can get a B3300SU with a FEL. Which should be plenty for your lot.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #15  
I don't see anything in your write up requiring a loader (you did say Dad had one, so borrow it if needed). A 3000 or 4000 Ford will do you well in the rough mowing, snow removal with back blade and tilling arena and would be about all you need. For the lawn, I would use the tractor for a while till the wife gets started with adding shrubs and flower, fruit trees etc and then you will need a good zero turn lawnmower. I know you said nothing in the way "right now" but I know how that goes. Wives hate an open field and will want to fill it with obstacles to mow around.
Get your used 2 WD tractor now with finish mower and back blade for what you have planned immediately, save your money for a good near commercial duty zero turn and get one when the trees and flowers get too thick to mow around with the tractor.
I figure about 2 years for the yard to fill up with obstacles (trees, flowers, yard art etc)
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Thanks for the replies, guys. Here's a little more of my situation:

- I have a push mower and a string trimmer so I just need to get "close enough" to things with the tractor.
- The yard is pretty much mowed weeds and is a little rough/bumpy. You would have to go at a pretty moderate speed else you'd beat the equipment and operator to pieces. You would have to run a ZTR or any other mower over the lawn at about the speed you'd push a pushmower, not the fast jogging pace most ZTR operators buzz through yards.
- The paddock area is not currently amenable to being mowed with a finish mower as it is pretty rough and uneven. It would need to be graded first and a bunch of rocks removed. (I guess I just named some ground engagement tasks for me to do, possibly...)
- The paddock is pretty long and narrow at about 80 feet by 300-something feet. This is my guesstimation based on measuring fence post spacing and then counting number of posts. It will remained enclosed as the garden, berry bushes, and fruit trees will be in there and the fence will be used to keep deer and rabbits out. (Fence is currently barb and we'll put in cattle panel and chicken wire at the bottom to keep the rabbits out.) It would be very difficult to swing a full-sized utility tractor with a loader in the front and a mower hanging off the 3-point like my Dad's old JD 5410 or worse, his current 5083E in such a space. My parents' garden is enclosed in a similar manner to the paddock but a little smaller, so he has to take part of his fence down to till it up in the spring.
- I do anticipate my wife planting some trees in the yard as well.
- This is Missouri so it rains quite a bit in the spring and the lawns get soggy. You can't avoid mowing them just because it's wet as they'd get too long too quickly. My Dad routinely tears giant ruts in the fields when he goes out there with his machines and it's wet.
- Tractor has to fit in a garage stall with a one-car-wide door.
- My Dad has a 5 foot Bush Hog, that 7 foot rototiller, a 5 or 6 foot 3 point blade, and a 3 point mounted spreader that I could borrow. I highly doubt I could borrow his smaller tractor with the loader, a cabbed 5083E with a loader and filled rear tires. It's too heavy to pull with any of the trucks or trailers we have and it's way too far to drive it.

I think in looking at what you guys wrote, the right thing for me to do would be to get a compact unit with turf fires, 4wd, and a loader in addition to a 3 point mower. I'll probably just push mow the yard and ignore the paddock for the couple of months left in the mowing season (moving in 3 months) and then get something over the winter or early spring.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #17  
In reading this I think a little machine like a JD 1 series, BX, Massey GC would be right up your alley. It sounds to me (again I am very new at this to take this for what it will) nothing you are doing is going to need a really big machine, but I think you are going to want a swiss army knife of machines.

All of those can move stuff you are going to need for your garden, and a loader is so much more handy for stuff like that, good dirt, mulch, compost. Then they can help with things like borders for the garden beds, rocks or whatever you want to use. They all have a 3pt hitch and the power to run anything for your garden, tillers, chipper/shreders (you have lots of trees that are going to come down and need upkeep...even the fruit trees need to be kept open so sun can get in and get everything) If you get a belly mower it is much more easy to get around things. And it is pretty modular.

It sounds like your dads place is too far away to be real easy to get to just for that one quick thing you need to do, but I would also talk to him and see what he thinks...he knows machines and could be thinking in the back of his head well if I only had this (X) it would be so easy for me to do this project. He may want to go in on it with you.

I don't think a zero turn would help you too much, the main advantage is speed and if you can't take that, then you might as well look to a machine that can do all your chores/hobbies in one machine.

I may sound like I am pimping the little tractors and I guess I am....I just got one 3 months ago and I am totally amazed at what it can do...we have not started our garden yet but we are in the process of doing fruit trees, my wife wants peaches, then to grow bulbs for tulips and other flowers to sell. Sounds like we are going to be doing a great deal of the same thing.

Keep us updated.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #18  
Garage door height can be an issue. My garage door entrance height is 80", taller than most.

I bought my L3560 assuming the folded ROPS height would be the same as previous model L3540, 77.5". When L3560 arrived I discovered folded ROPS height to be 82".

My local welding shop, which works on tractors, logging equipment and 'dozers regularly, cut 4" out of the ROPS so it fits now.

Measure before you buy.
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #19  
I think you came to the right conclusion. I was in a VERY similar situation as you. The sub-compact and compact tractor market is heavily marketed at the demographic of folks just like you! Getting in to a new tractor that suits your needs can be more affordable than you might think.

Some things I learned along the way:

- I would stay away from the garden tractor variety machines for your needs.
- I wouldn't settle for less than a Cat-1 rated 3-point hitch. There are FAR fewer available Cat-0 implements. Even your dads 7 foot rototiller is going to be a stretch in both weight and PTO requirements for a Sub-compact or Compact.
- In my opinion 20HP at the PTO minimum rating.
- Consider a mid mount finish mower versus 3-point mower. Much more maneuverable and enjoyable. The "drive over" kinds are fantastic!
- Choosing the brand of tractor is important, but don't underestimate the value of having a good strong, knowledge, supportive dealer. Talk to other owners in your area of all the main brands and their experiences. That relationship is priceless long after you have signed papers!
- I have turf tires that came on my tractor, but I wish I had industrial tires. Now I run chains on my turf tires all the time.
- If in doubt, rent one or ask if your dealer has a demo. You will quickly get a good idea of what you like and works best for you.

my 2c waiting for change..
 
/ Old utility tractor vs. newer compact tractor? #20  
A little over two years ago, I was tired of struggling with a worn out early 50's vintage tractor.
After looking at the prices of new 4WD compacts, I also considered a 70's vintage 2WD tractor with FEL. I started looking for a 4WD compact in the 40hp range to make sure I had enough power for mowing in some fairly HD conditions.

I had a hard time finding a used compact in this hp range, but by expanding my search out farther I found a 97 Kubota L4200 with FEL and only 800hrs. In two years I've put about 120 trouble free hours on it and usage is a total pleasure compared to the antique I had.

I would recommend something with a FEL as I'm always using mine, and 4WD also helps greatly when using the box blade on the drive or plowing snow. My drive has a circle near the house with some pretty good slope on it, and the old 2WD tractor struggled to pull the box blade with gravel in it up the slope, no problem with 4WD on the new one.

I purchased a used HD Cat-2 7-foot angle blade and narrowed it to match my other Cat-1 attachments, and it works fine for the occasional SW Missouri snows. Coming out of my barn there is a pretty good slope and on our biggest snow this year I put the tractor in 2WD for a test.
Just getting up the slope was an issue, but in 4WD I can push a decent amount of snow up our sloped driveway. Chains on a 2WD would help I'm sure, but I don't seem to need them.

Good luck in your search.
 

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