kubota vs. kioti

[grm61]

I don't think a gear would have had any different results, the problem was a lack of traction. We tried it in dirt and gravel with the same results. I think there was something weird going on for the 8N to win, maybe it was just better at going drawbar to draw bar.

I'm just speculating...ground pressure, the CK with r4s would have a 15-19.5 drive tire, short and fat with a very flat profile (I always disliked that size of tire), too much flotation and not enough ground pressure the size of the tractor, along with whatever questionable ballast not being very heavy.

The 8n with the tall skinnies, loaded with calcium, bit and drove away.

 

[94BULLITT]

Interesting to have a 1WD 8N. Didnt know they ever made one. Odd that they would have.
larry

With a open diff you only have one wheel pulling or very close to all the power is going to one tire.

I'm just speculating...ground pressure, the CK with r4s would have a 15-19.5 drive tire, short and fat with a very flat profile (I always disliked that size of tire), too much flotation and not enough ground pressure the size of the tractor, along with whatever questionable ballast not being very heavy.

The 8n with the tall skinnies, loaded with calcium, bit and drove away.

Could have been too much flotation. There may have been a different outcome on blacktop.

 

[chuck172]

Maybe the OP doesn't like his posts refered to as "hogwash"
Look, It's my opinion that the ck35 is a much more capable machine than the L3200. Now I know I'll be questioned (cross examined) as to what I mean about capable.
I only had the Kubota for 5 hours. In that short time I found out that the 3pt. lift sucked. Real Jerky. Kubota said " what I have is an economy model, that if I wanted a smooth lift, I should upgrade.
I tried to skid some logs with it, practically tipped the machine.
I then got a Kioti CK35. Big difference, more HP, heavier, same price. I know I'll be cross examined again, but it seemed the weight of the tractor is proportioned better to give the tank vs. toy effect.
The Kioti has industrial tires, not loaded. The Kubota had the Ag tires, loaded. The very short work I did with the Kubota was on a shale logging road.
I could go on in detail about the standard features of the Kioti vs. the Kubota. I'll let you guys handle that. I'm happy I got rid of the Kubota, and got the Kioti. I hope you bota people can try a Kioti to compare for yourselves. When you do, I'll listen to what you say and not refer to it as "hogwash"

 

[Gittyup]

I with you, Chuck, on the weight thing. I've used a few "light" machines: 7510, B21, and JD 770 all without ballast. None of them seemed to be well planted when doing heavy hydraulic work, engaging the ground. In contrast my CK25 with loaded tires feels far more stable w.r.t. keeping all 4 wheels on the ground for similar chores. As long as not mowing, I will seek to use a heavy machine with loaded tires and rear ballast. I do wish I'd gotten R1's for their traction in the mud. And if I ever upsize, I'm going to look at a full utility tractor rather than a compact.

 

[k0ua]

I'm just speculating...ground pressure, the CK with r4s would have a 15-19.5 drive tire, short and fat with a very flat profile (I always disliked that size of tire), too much flotation and not enough ground pressure the size of the tractor, along with whatever questionable ballast not being very heavy.

The 8n with the tall skinnies, loaded with calcium, bit and drove away.

That sounds logical to me.

 

[LD1]

With a open diff you only have one wheel pulling or very close to all the power is going to one tire.

Both tires are putting the same power to the ground, even if one is spinning and one is not.

Maybe the OP doesn't like his posts refered to as "hogwash"
Look, It's my opinion that the ck35 is a much more capable machine than the L3200. Now I know I'll be questioned (cross examined) as to what I mean about capable.

Yes, the more capable is the only thing I am questioning.

I am not arguing one bit that the CK isnt a nicer machine. It is smoother, has more features, etc.

But the way you had them equipped, they weighed the same. (loaded tires on the 3200, not loaded on the CK). I just cannot understand why/how the tractor with R4's would out pull a tractor with AG's?

While I dont have any direct experience with a CK, I do have experience with many other tractors, of differing weights, and some with R4's and some with R1's. And R4's dont pull worth a crap in comparison. And In my experience, it would take even more than a 500# difference (once you load the tires) for the R4's to overcome the R1's in traction in an off-road setting.

Now you mentioned the 3200 felt like it was gonna flip. I have to question this (and have before and you never answered). How were you hitched with each tractor? And did you have the loader on for both attempts to pull?

Cause the reason that I ask is cause I regularly pull with the 3PH. And raised all the way to lift the butt end of the log. No way I would do this with the loader off as it would flip for sure. But with the loader on, I have yet to even come close to flipping. Even on logs too big to pull. (And I am not recommending you try either. Not good practice to pull from the 3PH)

 

[chuck172]

How would ag tires out pull industrial tires on hard dry shale? I think on these conditions I'd rather have a wider tire stance with more rubber meeting the ground.
I was just using the loader and chain to pull logs, like I said I only put on 5 hrs. on the kubota and that was enough for me to get my $ back.
Don't discount industrial tires, I have an old ford 4500 tlb and it pulls great. Plenty of weight in the right places on that machine. I also have an 8n with ag tires, and it pulls like a mule. Try the Kioti CK35, LD1 and then tell me which machine you feel is more capable.

 

[s219]

I think Kubota deserves all the crap it can get for the three point system, so I have no problem with that. If they want less drama, they should ship a better three point hitch and be done with it, but they've let the problem persist for many years and through model upgrades. So I say flame away at them for that. The hitch is not a problem for my usage at all, but if Chuck didn't like it, he was right (and lucky) to get his money back.

The CK is certainly a heavier tractor, but I take exception to the issue skidding logs with the L3200. I do it all the time. Most recent was a big oak, 12' and 16' sections. I lift the butt of the log with a choker chain attached to a skid plate on the three point hitch, and drag them out of the woods (muddy logging trails), down my access trail (#3 gravel) and then on my driveway (crusher run). Never had a single issue. I also skidded smaller logs with my previous B2920 and never had issues with that.

I've seen my neighbor have issues skidding even small pines with his (heavy for its size) Mahindra, but it was because he was doing it all wrong -- either dragging the but on the log and the log was hanging up, or pulling with his front loader from up high. I think technique goes a long way when skidding logs. That's why I think many people are skeptical about issues described here when skidding logs with the L3200 in this thread. Based on my experience, it would have to be a giant log, or be done really poorly, to cause problems on an L3200 with loaded ag tires.

It's almost irrelevant what other tractor we'd compare to. An L3200 with loaded tires should be very capable of skidding some good sized logs. And any tractor can do a wheelie if you skid logs the wrong way and the logs hang up, or tip over if pulling from a high point. There have been many stories about that on these forums in fact. If you're popping wheelies or tipping over, you're doing it wrong, period, regardless of what tractor is being used.

 

[chuck172]

I don't disagree that properly rigged, an L3200 can pull logs. Like I said, I only had mine for 5 hrs.
I had my 8n for over 30 years and it pulls great too.
I hope that others reading this thread will at least try out a Kioti before jumping up to a Kobuta like I originally did. I made a mistake the first time. No-one should have to settle for a jerky 3pt.
Kubota should step up to the plate, admit there is a problem and fix it.

 

[k0ua]

The first reports here on the new 2014 model that replaced the L3200 the L3301 are that the 3pt is smooth now. Time will tell, but so far so good.

 

[murphy1244]

I'm told that Kubota now calls the L series a Economy model, and if you want a smooth 3 point to buy the Grand L series.

 

[LD1]

I think Kubota deserves all the crap it can get for the three point system, so I have no problem with that. If they want less drama, they should ship a better three point hitch and be done with it, but they've let the problem persist for many years and through model upgrades. So I say flame away at them for that. The hitch is not a problem for my usage at all, but if Chuck didn't like it, he was right (and lucky) to get his money back.

Very well said. The hitch sucks. We all know that.

But hitch aside, strictly talking about the capability of the rest of the tractor, it does just fine.

The CK is certainly a heavier tractor,

Base tractor, yes.

L3200 with loaded tires vs CK35 without loaded tires....weight is the same.

And for about 99.9% of all offroad situations, with two equal weight tractors, R1's have better traction than R4's.

 

[crazyal]

Maybe the OP doesn't like his posts refered to as "hogwash"
Look, It's my opinion that the ck35 is a much more capable machine than the L3200. Now I know I'll be questioned (cross examined) as to what I mean about capable.
I only had the Kubota for 5 hours. In that short time I found out that the 3pt. lift sucked. Real Jerky. Kubota said " what I have is an economy model, that if I wanted a smooth lift, I should upgrade.
I tried to skid some logs with it, practically tipped the machine.
I then got a Kioti CK35. Big difference, more HP, heavier, same price. I know I'll be cross examined again, but it seemed the weight of the tractor is proportioned better to give the tank vs. toy effect.
The Kioti has industrial tires, not loaded. The Kubota had the Ag tires, loaded. The very short work I did with the Kubota was on a shale logging road.
I could go on in detail about the standard features of the Kioti vs. the Kubota. I'll let you guys handle that. I'm happy I got rid of the Kubota, and got the Kioti. I hope you bota people can try a Kioti to compare for yourselves. When you do, I'll listen to what you say and not refer to it as "hogwash"

If you don't like the treatment you're getting then you shouldn't have started this thread the way you did. You're lucky it hasn't been worse. Personally i have no idea what you're talking about as far as skidding logs goes. You have two tractors that weigh the same. One was lighter until the tires were filled making it the same. Filling the tires puts the weight closer to the ground. Weight closer to the ground increases stability. Are you sure that both tractors have the tires set to the same width? The Ag tires usually don't stick out as far, maybe that's the difference?

I like the Kioti. Didn't buy one for one reason, their dealerships in my area were opening and closing every other month. When I asked questions all they did was open the brochure and read what was written. When asked about a front mount snow blower they couldn't find any information at all. The only blower they had used a chain drive for both the auger and the impeller while the Kubota has a gearbox for the impeller.

Have fun with your tractor, it sounds like a great fit for you. I bet it'll give you years of good service.

 

[murphy1244]

I don't see where anyone posted one brand is better than the other. Maybe I missed something?

 

[LD1]

How would ag tires out pull industrial tires on hard dry shale? I think on these conditions I'd rather have a wider tire stance with more rubber meeting the ground.
I was just using the loader and chain to pull logs,

I think technique is the issue there. On VERY hard surfaces, I'd rate the traction equal between R4's and R1's. But pulling in reverse? And on a very hard surface, yea, the R4's may have a slight edge. But I certainly wouldnt go as far to say the kubota wouldnt budge them, and the CK did it with ease. But I have to ask, why did it take 8 pages and several days to simply answer the question of how you were hooked to the log and what the surface condition was?

Don't discount industrial tires, I have an old ford 4500 tlb and it pulls great. Plenty of weight in the right places on that machine. I also have an 8n with ag tires, and it pulls like a mule.

I have a Ford 5500TLB too. And on dry conditions, it has no issues snapping 3/8" GR70 chain that has a break strength of 25000#+. So I am not discounting industrials. But also know that if conditions are even somewhat smeary or soft, the TLB can barley get itself around, let alone pull something. In those conditions, my ~4000lb kubota would out-pull my 18000# TLB. And yes, have an 8n too. (dads actually). IT has oversized 12.4x28's that are loaded as well. My L3400 will pull more with the loader on (added weight in the right spot). And without the loader, its about an even match. As they weigh similar (maybe a tad more for the 8n since it holds more fluid), but the kubota is 4wd.

Try the Kioti CK35, LD1 and then tell me which machine you feel is more capable.

No need to try it. I have been around equipment of all makes, models, and sizes all my life. IMO, there is absolutly nothing that makes the CK "special" or any different than any of the other various equipment that I have been around, other than money. And I am not disputing that it is more capable either. It should be. IT weighs more. Just not the way you had them equipped. If I were to get one, it would have loaded R1's. So yea, it would be slightly more capable at pulling things. As far as what I use my tractor for 99% of the time, the CK certainly wouldnt be "noticeably" more capable. Same HP, so PTO stuff, like tilling and mowing...no difference. I already have no issues scooping and lifting full loads of dirt, gravel, whatever. So no difference. I lift alot of logs for cutting. The loader isnt any stronger on the CK, so no difference. you get the idea. IF I was buying a tractor cause I needed something more "capable", I'd be making a jup up in size. Not a lateral move.

I don't disagree that properly rigged, an L3200 can pull logs.

It sure sounded like it early in this thread. When you said the L3200 with loaded AG's wouldnt budge the logs, but the CK with R4's not loaded had no issues at all.

I hope that others reading this thread will at least try out a Kioti before jumping up to a Kobuta like I originally did.

Yes. The best advise is to try many makes/models before settling on one. I would have if there was a dealer around. But there wasnt a kioti dealer around. So I tried out a CNH TC33, A deere 3320, And my kubota. Took the one that was best for me.

I made a mistake the first time. No-one should have to settle for a jerky 3pt.

If they plan on using the hitch much at all, then you are right. For how I use my tractor, it isnt a problem. Yes, clearly the hitch isnt great. And there is a design issue that kubota attemped to fix as evident with several different valve revisions. They came to the conclusion that without totally re-designing the system (adding to the cost) there was no fix. And for what I use my tractor for, I would rather have the jerky hitch as opposed to the added cost.

 

[LD1]

There is just no comparison. The Kioti is like a tank compared to the kubota a toy.

I don't see where anyone posted one brand is better than the other. Maybe I missed something?

Perhaps this?

Not a good way to start a thread IMO. Especially given the lack of details that has now taken 8 pages to get.

The kubota is anything but a toy. Especially compared to a CK. Neither are toys, and boh very capable.

Now if the OP screwd up and bought too small of a tractor, and went from a L3200 up to a DK45 or something, then the whole tank vs toy think may have more merit.

 

[murphy1244]

Perhaps this?

Not a good way to start a thread IMO. Especially given the lack of details that has now taken 8 pages to get.

The kubota is anything but a toy. Especially compared to a CK. Neither are toys, and boh very capable.

Now if the OP screwd up and bought too small of a tractor, and went from a L3200 up to a DK45 or something, then the whole tank vs toy think may have more merit.

Aha! I did miss sumting..

 

[LD1]

Aha! I did miss sumting..

And it was the first post too:confused2:

 

[murphy1244]

And it was the first post too:confused2:

That will teach me! Heck, I doubt it.

 

[k0ua]

That will teach me! Heck, I doubt it.

Meh.. old dog, new tricks... not so much.:laughing: