Gooseneck or stick with bumper pull ?

wmonroe · Mar 14, 2014

Rmart30 said:
Found what I think is a fair deal on a used 20+5 gooseneck rated at 12k ($2500) .. solid looking trailer , could use some paint and cosmetic work. Never had a gooseneck before mainly due to not having enough truck to use it with but I picked up a mid 90's dodge/cummins farm truck a few months ago. its now got me thinking about getting selling my 14k 18 ft bumper pull and going with the gooseneck trailer ... I should be able to get $2000 for my bumper pull. My L4600 with FEL and bush hog fills the 18 ft'r bumper pull deck completely but it pulls great.... Would be nice to have a little more deck space to carry a disk or box blade with me if I ever needed too .. Tractor only gets trailer maybe 5 or 6 times a year... most trips under 20 miles round trip, max is 100 mile round trip. Think its worth the difference to go to the gooseneck ? Id gain more deck space, but loose some hauling capacity (12k vs my 14k)...

I love my 20+5 gooseneck, it pulls so much nicer than the bumper pull trailers I had before. One nice benefit also is not many people will be able to borrow it.

Soundguy · Mar 14, 2014

wmonroe said:
One nice benefit also is not many people will be able to borrow it.

Bingo!

I've never had to loan out my GN. My flatbedd had plenty of borrowers/askers.

Diamondpilot · Mar 14, 2014

7879fordman said:
And ya don't know but it did break with a little swing of a short handle 8# hammer . Y'all can believe me or not but it happened . Why I have no clue . Stunned I was very stunned it happen . But it did . Am I a believer that they can easily break heck ya now . Sent from my iPhone 5 using TractorByNet

We'll if it can break anything can including a GN hitch component.

Chris

Mikeeemo · Mar 14, 2014

7879fordman said:
I have one of them pins that is bent from pulling under 8000#'s . And I even have a receiver hitch that I broke with a little light swing of a short handled 8# hammer . The shock load of a 14,000# load would easily do the same . But it's where the load is placed on the truck that makes it dangerous with 14,000# plus loads . It's saver to have the load over the axle than 4-5 feet behind it . Sent from my iPhone 5 using TractorByNet

That ball mount is rated for 5000 #'s. Not even in the ballpark for this discussion.

7879fordman · Mar 14, 2014

Mikeeemo said:
That ball mount is rated for 5000 #'s. Not even in the ballpark for this discussion.

Ya but most people use it . And not the proper thing .

Sent from my iPhone 5 using TractorByNet

Rmart30 · Mar 14, 2014

wmonroe said:
One nice benefit also is not many people will be able to borrow it.

I will agree with that being a plus... All of my current trailers are pintle hook hitches just for that very reason. Before I bought the 18 ft 14k I had a 16 ft 9k that everyone wanted to borrow because it had a 2 and 5/16 ball and hydraulic surge brakes so no brake controller was needed. Just hook up and go.

Also using pintle hook hitch eliminates the worry some have voiced concerns about in this thread of breakage of ball mounts as most pintle are 10k up to 60k tow capacity rated.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

The trailer is about 2 hours from home. Im going tomorrow to look at it if I can borrow a buddy of mines truck to haul it back with if I get it.
If its in the shape he described it as for the price I dont think I can go wrong.
If it turns out to not work for me I know I can get my investment back out of it easily.

wmonroe · Mar 15, 2014

Rmart30 said:
I will agree with that being a plus... All of my current trailers are pintle hook hitches just for that very reason. Before I bought the 18 ft 14k I had a 16 ft 9k that everyone wanted to borrow because it had a 2 and 5/16 ball and hydraulic surge brakes so no brake controller was needed. Just hook up and go. Also using pintle hook hitch eliminates the worry some have voiced concerns about in this thread of breakage of ball mounts as most pintle are 10k up to 60k tow capacity rated. Thanks for all the replies guys. The trailer is about 2 hours from home. Im going tomorrow to look at it if I can borrow a buddy of mines truck to haul it back with if I get it. If its in the shape he described it as for the price I dont think I can go wrong. If it turns out to not work for me I know I can get my investment back out of it easily.

Good luck.

RedNeckRacin · Mar 15, 2014

DP is the only guy I know of who is satisfied hauling ~20k behind a p/u with a BP trailer (yes I know it's a 2.5" receiver and not actually mounted to the bumper) and regularly claims to have no need/desire for a GN. There is no way in the world I'd want more than a 12k trailer behind me when driving a p/u pulling from a receiver hitch(W/D or not). You're relying too much on the trailer to carry the weight of the load. I'd also be pretty nervous about the tail wagging the dog. Isn't there supposed to be a 60/40 split with trailer weight so that there is enough tongue weight to keep that from happening? With a GN, the tires are further back and the wagging the tail syndrome is much harder to accomplish.

DP, it sounds like you needed an adjustable tail trailer. My moritz trailer has an adjustable tail. It gives you an entirely flat deck just by swinging up the tail and pinning it in place. The trailer comes with ramp bars so that they can be stood up vertically and "WALA" 25' of flat deck. VERY HANDY and one of the main reasons I bought it.

A Tri-axle trailer would be a nightmare scrubbing tires also. Never had one so I wouldn't know.

I pulled my 5083E around with a one ton cummins on a GN and it was a lot more weight than I was comfortable with.(Loader, loaded tires and a counterweight) I never broke anything nor did I have any problems with the load. I was always nervous as **** trying to make sure I had enough room to stop and turn. The idiots on the road always kept me on edge. I have since said goodbye to a P/U for my towing needs. The international truck I have now has a 17klb rear axle and air ride. I have to look in the mirrors to remind myself that there is a trailer behind me!! :thumbsup:

To the OP, go get the trailer and try it out. It doesn't sound like it's going to break the bank and if it's not heavy enough or isn't what you thought it would be; sell it. They are a whole different animal pulling and backing around obstacles. They maneuver FAR better than a comparable length BP. I can almost turn around in my own vehicle length with a GN and the international truck. I can go well past 90 degrees between truck and trailer.

bullbreaker · Mar 15, 2014

:thumbsup:

RedNeckRacin that Int/gooseneck combo looks like a dang nice rig ! :thumbsup:
Should last you a lifetime !

Diamondpilot · Mar 15, 2014

RedNeckRacin said:
DP is the only guy I know of who is satisfied hauling ~20k behind a p/u with a BP trailer (yes I know it's a 2.5" receiver and not actually mounted to the bumper) and regularly claims to have no need/desire for a GN. There is no way in the world I'd want more than a 12k trailer behind me when driving a p/u pulling from a receiver hitch(W/D or not). You're relying too much on the trailer to carry the weight of the load. I'd also be pretty nervous about the tail wagging the dog. Isn't there supposed to be a 60/40 split with trailer weight so that there is enough tongue weight to keep that from happening? With a GN, the tires are further back and the wagging the tail syndrome is much harder to accomplish. DP, it sounds like you needed an adjustable tail trailer. My moritz trailer has an adjustable tail. It gives you an entirely flat deck just by swinging up the tail and pinning it in place. The trailer comes with ramp bars so that they can be stood up vertically and "WALA" 25' of flat deck. VERY HANDY and one of the main reasons I bought it. A Tri-axle trailer would be a nightmare scrubbing tires also. Never had one so I wouldn't know. I pulled my 5083E around with a one ton cummins on a GN and it was a lot more weight than I was comfortable with.(Loader, loaded tires and a counterweight) I never broke anything nor did I have any problems with the load. I was always nervous as **** trying to make sure I had enough room to stop and turn. The idiots on the road always kept me on edge. I have since said goodbye to a P/U for my towing needs. The international truck I have now has a 17klb rear axle and air ride. I have to look in the mirrors to remind myself that there is a trailer behind me!! :thumbsup: To the OP, go get the trailer and try it out. It doesn't sound like it's going to break the bank and if it's not heavy enough or isn't what you thought it would be; sell it. They are a whole different animal pulling and backing around obstacles. They maneuver FAR better than a comparable length BP. I can almost turn around in my own vehicle length with a GN and the international truck. I can go well past 90 degrees between truck and trailer. <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=365324"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=365325"/>

You must remember I am pulling boats. GN hitches just don't work for this. All but one of my 75 or so trailers I am pulling are tri axle. We even have two quad axles. The tri axle scrubs no worse than a tandem. When you turn it pivots around the center axle. So if the front tire folds in the rear folds out. The quads are the worst but necessary.

I will take a tri axle any day of the week over tandem duallys. Been there, done that.

Chris

RedNeckRacin · Mar 15, 2014

Thanks bull! Its easy to drive and I get around better with it than I did with a p/u. Except in the winter time since its not 4wd.

DP, I think you need to mention to people that you are pulling boats with the BP then. I thought I remembered you saying that but I wasn't 100% on it so I didn't mention it. Whats the weight distribution with those boats? 25/75? They have to be pretty rear heavy with the engine(s) hanging off the back. Hauling equipment is a whole different animal than hauling boats around though. I think we disagree about ramp styles quite frequently as well. Your absolutely right about the gn and the boats not working together. I think trying to back a boat down a ramp would be difficult as steep as some of the launches appear to be. You have to admit that the weight carrying ability of a gn is a much better system than a bp is though.

Diamondpilot · Mar 15, 2014

RedNeckRacin said:
Thanks bull! Its easy to drive and I get around better with it than I did with a p/u. Except in the winter time since its not 4wd.

DP, I think you need to mention to people that you are pulling boats with the BP then. I thought I remembered you saying that but I wasn't 100% on it so I didn't mention it. Whats the weight distribution with those boats? 25/75? They have to be pretty rear heavy with the engine(s) hanging off the back. Hauling equipment is a whole different animal than hauling boats around though. I think we disagree about ramp styles quite frequently as well. Your absolutely right about the gn and the boats not working together. I think trying to back a boat down a ramp would be difficult as steep as some of the launches appear to be. You have to admit that the weight carrying ability of a gn is a much better system than a bp is though.

I haul everything. Campers, boats, equipment. I prefer BP personally. The boats have about 1,500# of tongue weight on average. Most I deal with are in the 12K to 18K range.

Chris

RDrancher · Mar 15, 2014

RedNeck...That's a real nice setup you have there.

One thing I'll share is a major difference I noticed between my Super Duty SRW and Ram DRW flatbed when it comes to towing. I haven't quite figured out why yet, but the Ram likes the weight 12"-18" further forward on a GN trailer. Also...when pulling a loaded BP, the trailer always felt a bit squirrely behind the Ford, but behind the Ram it feels glued to the road.

Xfaxman · Mar 15, 2014

RDrancher said:
RedNeck...That's a real nice setup you have there.

One thing I'll share is a major difference I noticed between my Super Duty SRW and Ram DRW flatbed when it comes to towing. I haven't quite figured out why yet, but the Ram likes the weight 12"-18" further forward on a GN trailer. Also...when pulling a loaded BP, the trailer always felt a bit squirrely behind the Ford, but behind the Ram it feels glued to the road.

What is the difference in the height of the gooseneck ball for the trucks?

What type of axle suspension on the trailer? Torflex needs the trailer to be level when loaded.

RDrancher · Mar 15, 2014

Xfaxman said:
What is the difference in the height of the gooseneck ball for the trucks?

What type of axle suspension on the trailer? Torflex needs the trailer to be level when loaded.

The Ram's ball-height isn't any higher, but I've lowered the GN hitch tube so that the trailer is almost level unloaded. On the Ford the GN trailer always sat high in the front for bed clearance which looked like it put more weight on the trailer axles. You'd think that that would require more forward weight, but if the load were placed forward at all the F350 sagged bad. It was like that since new. Pretty weak springs I guess.

All of my trailers are beam and leaf.

Edited to add: Keep in mind that with both trucks I carry a fuel tank and quite a load of tools onboard. When I switched everything over to the Ram, the Ford rose 6" in the rear!

RedNeckRacin · Mar 15, 2014

Thanks for the compliments fellas.

I think asking a one ton srw to carry a GN with a heavy pin loading is asking a lot. If you're careful with weight placement I don't think it's a big deal loading the trailer. Start loading up to the gvwr of the trailer and placement becomes critical to not overload components. Especially trying to get the optimum 25% (IIRC) weight distribution onto the truck. I had air bags under the rear end to level things out but even with 10 ply tires aired to the max they felt very mushy( on 17" rims). The heavier spring packs in the dually might make all the difference.

So DP with those BP trailers I have heard 10-15% GTW of the trailer on the tongue for "proper" weight distribution. So your 1500lb could be light on those heavier trailers? 18k *10%=1800lb or 18k*15%=2700lbs. 12k*10%=1200 12k*15%=1800lb Sounds like you don't have enough tongue weight to me.

E Trailer

Diamondpilot · Mar 15, 2014

RDrancher said:
The Ram's ball-height isn't any higher, but I've lowered the GN hitch tube so that the trailer is almost level unloaded. On the Ford the GN trailer always sat high in the front for bed clearance which looked like it put more weight on the trailer axles. You'd think that that would require more forward weight, but if the load were placed forward at all the F350 sagged bad. It was like that since new. Pretty weak springs I guess.

All of my trailers are beam and leaf.

Edited to add: Keep in mind that with both trucks I carry a fuel tank and quite a load of tools onboard. When I switched everything over to the Ram, the Ford rose 6" in the rear!

A unlevel trailer of any kind is more squirrely.

Chris

Diamondpilot · Mar 15, 2014

RedNeckRacin said:
Thanks for the compliments fellas.

I think asking a one ton srw to carry a GN with a heavy pin loading is asking a lot. If you're careful with weight placement I don't think it's a big deal loading the trailer. Start loading up to the gvwr of the trailer and placement becomes critical to not overload components. Especially trying to get the optimum 25% (IIRC) weight distribution onto the truck. I had air bags under the rear end to level things out but even with 10 ply tires aired to the max they felt very mushy( on 17" rims). The heavier spring packs in the dually might make all the difference.

So DP with those BP trailers I have heard 10-15% GTW of the trailer on the tongue for "proper" weight distribution. So your 1500lb could be light on those heavier trailers? 18k *10%=1800lb or 18k*15%=2700lbs. 12k*10%=1200 12k*15%=1800lb Sounds like you don't have enough tongue weight to me.

E Trailer

Yea, my FEL is rated at 2000# but I suspect it will lift more. I know on my 32' boat it will not lift the tongue. The 25,000# boat it will. Most all are set up properly with 10 to 15% but a few are not. It's amazing how much can change with 200 gallons of fuel or just moving the boat for or aft 4". It can mean plus or minus 1000# on the tongue.

One thing with towing these big boats is width. My boat is 10.5' but a few I move are 13'. That gets pretty interesting making right hand turns. Lefts are a cake walk.

Chris