Kohler Courage got me stumped
- Thread starter fordie
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crazyal
Super Member
I don't think each safety switch has it's own relay and the power going to the starter doesn't go through the switches. The relay could have bad contacts but I think the issue is that the starter is too small for the engine. To compensate you need the maximum amount of voltage to get the most out of the starter. I think under normal conditions a larger car battery will solve the problem. Since you say you store it inside, do you have power close by? Another solution would be to buy a trickle charger and just leave it plugged in while it's being stored. That should keep the smaller garden tractor battery always topped off.
Dave M7040
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 2,757
- Location
- Williamstown Ontario Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota M7040 Nuffield 465
As the one who was suggesting adding a relay, after reading recent posts I realized I may not have explained my argument adequately.
When the tractor comes from the factory, there are no relays associated with safety switches or the starter solenoid.
My experience is that over time and with exposure to the elements, the safety switches introduce some resistance to the circuit which engages the starter solenoid.
Because the starter solenoid is not forcefully activated, the main contacts in the solenoid do not completely convey the battery current to the starter motor which results in poor or no starts.
The relay I am suggesting is going to work with the weak voltage signal coming from the ignition switch and passing through the safety switch(es). The relay in turn can provide a strong voltage signal to the starter solenoid which usually makes a big difference in the engine's starting.
I can provide a picture of such an installation if this would help in the explanation.
A crude way to test my theory is to jump a screwdriver from the main battery terminal to the start terminal on the solenoid. Be certain the blade is off and the brake is on. Have the ignition key on.
Dave M7040
Loadstar
Platinum Member
When the compression relief is not working properly it seems like the starter is too small, not strong enough, weak battery, bad connections you name it. My junker fleet of lawn tractors suffered majorly from this. I put a new battery in each year. Parked them facing uphill. Cleaned connections. Swapped starters. Hold key on and try to help starter spinning motor by hand when starter stalled. Even tried jumping directly off semi's batteries to starter. Got the compression relief working properly... Have not looked back since. If a kohler relieves compression I would shake that tree.
How did you get the compression relief working properly? I have adjusted the valves to .004, turning the engine over by hand I can see the exhaust valve open slightly to release compression, I can hear it release compression. What did you do differently to get it better than that?
A crude way to test my theory is to jump a screwdriver from the main battery terminal to the start terminal on the solenoid. Be certain the blade is off and the brake is on. Have the ignition key on.
Dave M7040
Thanks Dave, I do plan to add a relay however jumping the solenoid [done it many times on cars in my youth] did not solve the issue. Joe
Dave M7040
Thanks Dave, I do plan to add a relay however jumping the solenoid [done it many times on cars in my youth] did not solve the issue. Joe
Loadstar
Platinum Member
I checked the ol google and it seems to be a common issue. See if this sounds familiar...
http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-269554.html
http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-269554.html
banjodunn
Veteran Member
G'day comp release is a small plastic arrangement on the cam and are prone to breaking'
Jon
Jon
If the compression release lever was broken I don't believe I would see the valve bump, or hear the compression released. I am well aware that the compression release is a problem on these engines. The lawnsite.com post is the first I have seen that gave a compression release compression number of 100 lbs or less. I still don't see how if the valves are adjusted correctly and the valve opens slightly, that the compression release is broken. I do agree compression is at least a part of my problem, but will continue to pursue the electrical aspect because I am unsure of how to move forward on ACR. I will check compression.
Loadstar
Platinum Member
When you see it bump are you referring to valve overlap?
I also liked the compression check they mentioned in the article.
I also liked the compression check they mentioned in the article.
Loadstar
Platinum Member
fordie said:
Drop a link to it so I'm on the same page.
Kohler Command compression release operation - YouTube
Kohler Command compression release operation - YouTube Cached
This is not the one I saw, but the only one I can find at this time.
Kohler Command compression release operation - YouTube Cached
This is not the one I saw, but the only one I can find at this time.
crazyal
Super Member
Unfortunately the Courage engine is a disposable engine. You can pull the engine apart and fix the cam gear that activates the decompressor but it could last one summer or maybe up to 3 before it breaks again. I would suggest you check all the bolts on the engine for looseness and look for signs of oil leaking. Both are a sign that the engine has more serious issues.
Dave M7040
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 2,757
- Location
- Williamstown Ontario Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota M7040 Nuffield 465
Out of curiosity, I went to the Kohler Engine web site and downloaded the service manual for the Courage engine.
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_32_690_01.pdf
The manual says you cannot do a compression test because the engine has an ACR. The fact that you got low numbers when doing the compression test is a strong indicator your ACR is working.
To assess the condition of engines with ACR you need to do a cylinder leak down test. I am not suggesting you need to do that test!
I am going to go back and read all the posts on this thread before commenting further.
Dave M7040
crazyal
Super Member
fordie, I'm uessing based on the fact that the valves have been adjusted and it didn't change the hard starting as well as the fact that a quick search on the net will have lots of people complaining about the cam gear being plastic and breaking after two or three seasons. I may think differently than others but to me the engine on a riding mower should last for decades without requiring anything more than routine oil changes. In fact I can't remember a small engine that I've owned that didn't last 20 or more years that needed any work. Mind you that excludes ethanol related issues.
A coworker had the lower engine case crack (Courage 20hp). He found a high speed video of the engine running at 360 RPM under load and the block looked like jello. It sounds like this flexing causes the bolts holding the upper and lower cases together to loosen. Once they do the cases are prone to cracking. Until this thread I didn't know about other issues like the ACR breaking, the valve cover gasket leaking, the flywheel nut coming loose, the flywheel teeth getting damaged by a bolt that backed out, and the nuts on the connecting rods loosening up. With all of these issues I'm not sure if I would spend too much time or money on the engine. My plan is to keep the bolts holding the cases together tight. Once it dies then I'll repower it with a different brand engine.
How would you do an accurate compression test when the starter can't turn the engine over?
A coworker had the lower engine case crack (Courage 20hp). He found a high speed video of the engine running at 360 RPM under load and the block looked like jello. It sounds like this flexing causes the bolts holding the upper and lower cases together to loosen. Once they do the cases are prone to cracking. Until this thread I didn't know about other issues like the ACR breaking, the valve cover gasket leaking, the flywheel nut coming loose, the flywheel teeth getting damaged by a bolt that backed out, and the nuts on the connecting rods loosening up. With all of these issues I'm not sure if I would spend too much time or money on the engine. My plan is to keep the bolts holding the cases together tight. Once it dies then I'll repower it with a different brand engine.
How would you do an accurate compression test when the starter can't turn the engine over?
"How would you do an accurate compression test when the starter can't turn the engine over?"
crazyal, I couldn't until I put the larger CCA battery in it. Then I could spin the engine with the compression gauge in it. I don't plan on spending any more dollars on it, I would just like to figure out why it is so hard to spin.
crazyal, I couldn't until I put the larger CCA battery in it. Then I could spin the engine with the compression gauge in it. I don't plan on spending any more dollars on it, I would just like to figure out why it is so hard to spin.
