FEL coming loose @ bracket

[s219]

I dug a small pond with my FEL AND box blade. I used the scarifiers to loosen up the soil on each pass as I was scooping up the loose stuff from the previous pass. I did this till I got to soft moist soil that I could pick up with the FEL without scarifying. My final depth was when I hit shale bed rock and I did occasionally hit a large rock that would stall the tractor but I was travelling slow so no damage to the FEL. You can use an FEL to dig, you just have to go slow and not strain it too much. The box blade and scarifiers sure helped a bunch, and it takes some coordination to use both FEL and rear hydraulics at the same time but it doubles the rate of dirt moving when you use both.

That's how I have dug with my FEL also -- used the box to loosen and move some material and then came in from the opposite direction with front bucket. With clay soil, that's the only hope really.

I might add that my FEL mounting bolts were loose when I checked them at 40 hours. At least one was several threads loose and most of them took at least a half round to tighten them up. My torque wrench was a breaker bar with all I could put on it where I could use a socket and the other was all I could put on a wrench by looping the boxed end of a second wrench on to the open end of the one on the bolt. Laying under the tractor about the most I could do is lift myself off the ground. Last time I checked they were all still tight.

I put paint stripes on the FEL frame bolts on my old B2920 and used that to get a periodic visual between the maintenance intervals. Never saw any of the bolts loosen up after the initial 50 hour re-torque.

 

[psient]

Your 3pt will handle the amount of ballast you would need. 3pt is designed to carry loads and tolerate pulling forces. A ballast weight isn't going to hurt it any.

Understand that when you add ballast to the rear, regardless of what method you use, you increase the forces that the tractor can impose on the FEL frame and it's mountings. Although I work the snot outta my FEL, I NEVER ram it into anything. I gently approach the task and smoothly add the forces of the tractor after contact is made, regardless of what attachment I have on the FEL.

I understand. Do you have any pics of your arrangement for carrying the weight? I know that I rammed into stuff accidentally before I was skilled at using the ram. Seems that at 2k rpm the downward speed of the bucket is really fast. Upward isn't that much different. It took me a while to realize some of the technique but I'm aware now. I still don't have finesse in all attitudes of the bucket although I improve slowly each time I have a project.

I dug a small pond with my FEL AND box blade. I used the scarifiers to loosen up the soil on each pass as I was scooping up the loose stuff from the previous pass. I did this till I got to soft moist soil that I could pick up with the FEL without scarifying. My final depth was when I hit shale bed rock and I did occasionally hit a large rock that would stall the tractor but I was travelling slow so no damage to the FEL. You can use an FEL to dig, you just have to go slow and not strain it too much. The box blade and scarifiers sure helped a bunch, and it takes some coordination to use both FEL and rear hydraulics at the same time but it doubles the rate of dirt moving when you use both.

I usually use the box blade and scarifiers. I was thinking of using a sub soiler and had the dealer weld 2 scarifiers together. We cut off the point on one leaving just the shank welding the other to it extending the point to about 18" in the soil. The weld broke eventually. I did this because the sub soilers for sale seemed expensive. I was thinking of building my own and went so far as to buy a tool bar for it. However, engineering the thing with a shear bolt seemed beyond my ability at the time so I abandoned it. I spent about 3 hours searching the community here for posts concerning shop bilt SS but didn't find anything to use as an example.

That's how I have dug with my FEL also -- used the box to loosen and move some material and then came in from the opposite direction with front bucket. With clay soil, that's the only hope really.

I put paint stripes on the FEL frame bolts on my old B2920 and used that to get a periodic visual between the maintenance intervals. Never saw any of the bolts loosen up after the initial 50 hour re-torque.

This is a really excellent suggestion . . . and simple to do. As soon as we get the FEL bracket back on this morning I'll paint the witness stripes on all the loader bolts.

Once again I want to state my appreciation for all the time and effort commenters have shown.

Jon

 

[LD1]

A tooth bar or bucket teeth make it easier to dig. And easier means less strain on the FEL

 

[psient]

I am thinking of buying an impact wrench. An aircat nitro seems like a good idea. That way I can check the bolts when I grease the tractor and keep them tightened without too much labor time. I watched the mechanic use his (said IR titanium on the label) and a swivel socket to get at the bolts that were obstructed. I have a torque wrench that will handle 110 but some of the guys have said above 200. We are replacing all of the bolts whether they appear worn or not. I have only had a problem with one side coming loose. Guess which side? You're right. I'm right handed.

I was thinking of taking off the other side just to make sure but I think I'll just ask him to tighten the bolts on the left and go back to using the tractor. Anyone who has a comment on the impact please post a reply as it's about 180 USD and if it won't help I'll keep using my cheap one (no name from a HF wanna be). Some of the threads on impacts suggest cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad. But on the other hand, a large number of threads endorse the IR and Aircat brands. I'll go with Aircat this time.

Thank you for your feedback all.

Jon

 

[s219]

I'm always cautious using impact wrenches unless you know exactly what the torque requirements are and can guarantee the gun won't over-do it. I bet they cause more problems when used incorrectly (that's certainly true for rookies in the auto repair business).

I normally only use an impact to take nuts/bolts off, or when driving lag bolts into timbers where I can see when it's time to say whoa. For mechanical work, I much prefer a torque wrench with steady controlled tightening.

The main problem I found with loader frame bolts is that they are often hard to get to and may not allow you to swing a torque wrench or breaker bar. I had to buy several sizes of extensions and a swivel joint to do mine last time, and working with a swivel is not desirable if you can avoid it. So an impact gun might be one of the best options, if used correctly. I'd want to invest in a torque stick, or know for sure that the max torque of the impact gun won't exceed the torque ratings of the bolts/threads. Make sure the threads are clean and not oily/greasy, as that will let you over-do it for sure.

 

[k0ua]

I'm always cautious using impact wrenches unless you know exactly what the torque requirements are and can guarantee the gun won't over-do it. I bet they cause more problems when used incorrectly (that's certainly true for rookies in the auto repair business).

I normally only use an impact to take nuts/bolts off, or when driving lag bolts into timbers where I can see when it's time to say whoa. For mechanical work, I much prefer a torque wrench with steady controlled tightening.

The main problem I found with loader frame bolts is that they are often hard to get to and may not allow you to swing a torque wrench or breaker bar. I had to buy several sizes of extensions and a swivel joint to do mine last time, and working with a swivel is not desirable if you can avoid it. So an impact gun might be one of the best options, if used correctly. I'd want to invest in a torque stick, or know for sure that the max torque of the impact gun won't exceed the torque ratings of the bolts/threads. Make sure the threads are clean and not oily/greasy, as that will let you over-do it for sure.

I would tend to agree with the above.. I would be very careful about using the inpact, as a twisted off bolt in the tractor would not be fun. I have thought about using it myself, but have refrained because of the cautions noted above.

 

[SSdoxie]

Over-torque of a bolt (hammering away with an impact wrench) can be just as bad or worse than loose torque. Run the risk of stretching the bolt, pulling the threads, or cracking the bolt. I can't think of anything that works as a good substitute for a torque wrench when working with critical clamp loads like this loader frame to tractor connection. If you can't find the specified torque in a manual then use a standard bolt torque chart for that bolt diameter, thread pitch, grade, & coating type. Standard bolt torque may not be exactly what manufacture states, but a whole lot closer than guessing.

 

[JRL305]

Where might one find a manual for a LA504 FEL? I've been looking but so far only found one on eBay for $25.

 

[LD1]

I'm always cautious using impact wrenches unless you know exactly what the torque requirements are and can guarantee the gun won't over-do it. I bet they cause more problems when used incorrectly (that's certainly true for rookies in the auto repair business).

I normally only use an impact to take nuts/bolts off, or when driving lag bolts into timbers where I can see when it's time to say whoa. For mechanical work, I much prefer a torque wrench with steady controlled tightening.

The main problem I found with loader frame bolts is that they are often hard to get to and may not allow you to swing a torque wrench or breaker bar. I had to buy several sizes of extensions and a swivel joint to do mine last time, and working with a swivel is not desirable if you can avoid it. So an impact gun might be one of the best options, if used correctly. I'd want to invest in a torque stick, or know for sure that the max torque of the impact gun won't exceed the torque ratings of the bolts/threads. Make sure the threads are clean and not oily/greasy, as that will let you over-do it for sure.

Agreed.

Even putting my lug nuts on my car or truck, I like doing it by hand. Sure, I will use the impact, but only to snug them up enough to lower the jacks. Then final torque by hand. My IR2135Ti is more than capable of over torquing and breaking most of the bolts I deal with day to day.

And you for darn sure dont want to use air tools on stainless bolts unless you use a lube of some type.

 

[ENC]

My Loader manual for the LA764 loader says to torque the bolts to 166ft/pds. And to check every 50 hours of operation. At 100 hours now I have only ever had one single bolt that was a little loose and it was at the 50 hour check.

 

[psient]

OK that saves me a couple of hundred dollars! 166ft lbs? Don't have that level of instrument.

I am getting the idea one just puts the pressure on with a breaker bar. If you can move it with exertion it's probably loosening? If you can't it's not an issue? Is this about right?

I'm not a small guy but with the advantage of the breaker bar I imagine it's a lot of torque when I'm gruntin away on the far end! Whatdyathink?

 

[JRL305]

Over the years I've developed a "feel" for when the torque limit has been reached on a given bolt or screw. Try this on a car or truck lug nut. Snug up a lug nut then put on a socket and a breaker bar. Tighten the nut until you can actually feel the resistance increase. The stud and nut should be clean and dry and you should do this in one smooth motion. Many of you know what I mean and can already do this. Try it and then try to tighten it more with a torque wrench and see what it reads.

 

[ENC]

Over the years I've developed a "feel" for when the torque limit has been reached on a given bolt or screw. Try this on a car or truck lug nut. Snug up a lug nut then put on a socket and a breaker bar. Tighten the nut until you can actually feel the resistance increase. The stud and nut should be clean and dry and you should do this in one smooth motion. Many of you know what I mean and can already do this. Try it and then try to tighten it more with a torque wrench and see what it reads.

I use a similar method when I have to do some light plumbing be it black gas pipe or patching existing water pipes. I just get a feel for the threads tightening up. Almost never any leaks after a pressure test. I have no idea how much torque I am putting on the angled threads.

 

[ovrszd]

Where might one find a manual for a LA504 FEL? I've been looking but so far only found one on eBay for $25.

Check out this thread. Not sure yours is listed, but if not you migh post a request or PM Tape and see if he can hook you up. He got me a WSM for my M9540. Great guy with excellent resources.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/297907-kubota-wsm-frs-links.html