Ditch Project, Advice Welcomed

[Wingsy]

My Mom always warned me that if I didn't do well in school that I'd wind up digging ditches. I've come full circle now and that's what's it's come to. But this should actually be fun, especially if it works well.

The pictures tell it all. In photo #1, this existing ditch along the edge of my side yard goes nowhere - it just fills up and overflows onto my front yard, as you can see in photo #2. Photo #3 shows where I plan to start this ditch (foreground stake) and where it will end (stake in background), right into the ditch prior to the culvert under my driveway. You can see this in photo #1 as well.

It's total length is 50 feet, and I've measured a 10 inch drop from the ground surface at the start to the ground surface at the end. At the end the ground surface that I'm talking about is at the bottom of the ditch just before the culvert.

I plan on using a catch basin at the start, kinda like this:
Shop NDS 12-in L x 12-in W Square Catch Basin Kit at Lowes.com

And a pop-up emitter at the end, kinda like this:
Clog Free Pop-Up Drain Emitter - 4" - Amazon.com

With 6 inch flexible corrugated solid drain pipe between the two.

And of course a Kubota BX25 with backhoe to do the work. (Or most of it anyway.) I'm not that experienced in this stuff. I've got maybe 30 hours of backhoe time under my belt - dug up trees, dug a boat slip, grave for a horse, footings for a gazebo, but nothing yet that called for an even surface at the bottom of the hole/ditch.

Any advice from any of you ditch-diggers out there would be appreciated. I don't want to screw this up too badly - my wife will be watching.

 

[flusher]

My Mom always warned me that if I didn't do well in school that I'd wind up digging ditches. I've come full circle now and that's what's it's come to. But this should actually be fun, especially if it works well.

The pictures tell it all. In photo #1, this existing ditch along the edge of my side yard goes nowhere - it just fills up and overflows onto my front yard, as you can see in photo #2. Photo #3 shows where I plan to start this ditch (foreground stake) and where it will end (stake in background), right into the ditch prior to the culvert under my driveway. You can see this in photo #1 as well.

It's total length is 50 feet, and I've measured a 10 inch drop from the ground surface at the start to the ground surface at the end. At the end the ground surface that I'm talking about is at the bottom of the ditch just before the culvert.

I plan on using a catch basin at the start, kinda like this:
Shop NDS 12-in L x 12-in W Square Catch Basin Kit at Lowes.com

And a pop-up emitter at the end, kinda like this:
Clog Free Pop-Up Drain Emitter - 4" - Amazon.com

With 6 inch flexible corrugated solid drain pipe between the two.

And of course a Kubota BX25 with backhoe to do the work. (Or most of it anyway.) I'm not that experienced in this stuff. I've got maybe 30 hours of backhoe time under my belt - dug up trees, dug a boat slip, grave for a horse, footings for a gazebo, but nothing yet that called for an even surface at the bottom of the hole/ditch.

Any advice from any of you ditch-diggers out there would be appreciated. I don't want to screw this up too badly - my wife will be watching.

I use 6" corrugated drain pipe with pop-up emitters to direct flow from my house gutters to the middle of the lawn area. A few of the runs go under paver block sidewalks that I installed after the drain pipe went in. Used my 2005 Kubota B7510HST and a middle buster plow to dig the trenches and cleaned out loose dirt by hand with a trench shovel before laying the pipe. Total trench length was about 120 ft. The bottom of the trenches was about 14" below grade.

With your BX and a backhoe, digging 50 ft of trench is a cinch compared to the way I did mine. Have at it.

Good luck.

 

[JRobyn]

Call to have any/all utilities located before you dig!

- Jay

 

[HeLa]

my entire lot is on a hill, not at the top nor the bottom, and water is a constant problem since it comes on to our land from others' and i need to be careful in shedding it so as to not flood (or seriously anger) my neighbors. i've done several projects in this domain.

where does the water come from?

firstly, is pipe necessary? i prefer to avoid pipe for maintenance reasons in situations like this. for gutter drains, driveway drains, etc... it works well but capacity is limited AND IT CLOGS. as soon as leaves cover that catch basin the throughput will be reduced or even eliminated. if they get into the pipe, you'll have to clear it. if you go with pipe, use smooth-inside-wall stuff to reduce clogging and ease clearing. if you go with a catch basin, i would swap the cover for an "atrium" style (much more tolerant of clogs)

my preferred method is swails. it's not easy with a backhoe, but for this small project you might get by with a backhoe, FEL, a rake and some time. if the water is coming from what i am guessing is the right-hand side (when looking out your front door), why not dig a swail parallel to that tree line to stop the incoming water and pitch the swail to divert the water to the roadside culvert? a boxgrader angled with the 3PH would make quick work of this project, FWIW.

here are a few photos of one of my projects, to give you an idea. water coming down the hill during heavy storms was flowing into my barn. i dug a swail around the building to stop and divert the water around the building. i did this with a box grader and a rake (for finishing before seed). a drag harrow is also good to have for the finish work but definitely not necessary.

 

[art]

I don't have as much to look at as you do but it looks like the problem might be run off from another area. I'd be running the pipe with the holes at the start going across where the water problem is with crushed stone around the pipe so it can take up the water from a larger area and remove it. The catch basin is a nice idea if you have concrete or a solid run off area to catch the water at to move it but for what it looks like to me the back is higher then your lawn so run the pipe all the way across.

 

[Wingsy]

Yep! I still have the depression visible from a recent install of cable so I intend to dig by hand through that area. The cable isn't deep at all so I think I'll wind up with my pipe under the cable. Underground power SHOULD be 18" deep or more but I plan to dig by hand through that area as well. Both are in almost the same spot.

 

[Wingsy]

HeLa: A swale would be the best choice I think, if only the ditch at the road was lower than the low point on my side ditch (where the stake is in pic #1, on the right). It's about the same elevation next to that fire hydrant but it is lower by 10 inches at the point where it enters the culvert, and to run it there means I'd have the swale running right across the side yard. I can't drain to the other end of the side yard ditch because it would dump the water into my neighbor's yard.

Smooth bore pipe is expensive but I may take your advice on that anyway. Last thing I need is another maintenance chore.

And what is "atrium" style emitter?

Edit: Oh I see. You were talking about the basin, not the emitter. So you're experience says to use an atrium rather than the grate? As you can see by the photos, that ditch I'm starting from DOES have it's share of debris.

 

[ishiboo]

I'm on the swale side as well… will be easier, faster and much more efficient and 11000% reliable.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My Mom always warned me that if I didn't do well in school that I'd wind up digging ditches. I've come full circle now and that's what's it's come to. But this should actually be fun, especially if it works well.

The pictures tell it all. In photo #1, this existing ditch along the edge of my side yard goes nowhere - it just fills up and overflows onto my front yard, as you can see in photo #2. Photo #3 shows where I plan to start this ditch (foreground stake) and where it will end (stake in background), right into the ditch prior to the culvert under my driveway. You can see this in photo #1 as well.

It's total length is 50 feet, and I've measured a 10 inch drop from the ground surface at the start to the ground surface at the end. At the end the ground surface that I'm talking about is at the bottom of the ditch just before the culvert.

I plan on using a catch basin at the start, kinda like this:
Shop NDS 12-in L x 12-in W Square Catch Basin Kit at Lowes.com

And a pop-up emitter at the end, kinda like this:
Clog Free Pop-Up Drain Emitter - 4" - Amazon.com

With 6 inch flexible corrugated solid drain pipe between the two.

And of course a Kubota BX25 with backhoe to do the work. (Or most of it anyway.) I'm not that experienced in this stuff. I've got maybe 30 hours of backhoe time under my belt - dug up trees, dug a boat slip, grave for a horse, footings for a gazebo, but nothing yet that called for an even surface at the bottom of the hole/ditch.

Any advice from any of you ditch-diggers out there would be appreciated. I don't want to screw this up too badly - my wife will be watching.

I would start by just opening up the ditch past the telephone pole /flower bed/fire hydrant. I looks like those three activities has produced a large mound of dirt that is stopping the natural flow of water from your yard. It may drain sufficiently by just digging that out so the water can drain. The photos may not show the whole story, but open that up first and see what you have at the next big rain. You may need to put in a swale back to the property line ditch to the telephone pole but perhaps you will be lucky enough to not need it.
In one photo it looks like you created a dam with your sidewalk and didn't provide a drain under it. This might be fixable by digging down and then driving a 4" drain line under the sidewalk. It is really hard to tell from just a few photos.

 

[Wingsy]

I believe I looked at extending the ditch before, but after measuring the drop I had to the bottom of the ditch next to the culvert I estimated that it wouldn't work. But to be sure(er) I drew a string from the ditch stake (at the tape) to the ditch near the hydrant. String all the way to the ground and it was still uphill. In addition I took a picture with this amateur theodolite and it showed a 3 degree rise from the tape mark to ground level at the hydrant. Would be worse than that if I went to ground level at start & end.

 

[HeLa]

Smooth bore pipe is expensive but I may take your advice on that anyway. Last thing I need is another maintenance chore.

And what is "atrium" style emitter?

Edit: Oh I see. You were talking about the basin, not the emitter. So you're experience says to use an atrium rather than the grate? As you can see by the photos, that ditch I'm starting from DOES have it's share of debris.

Atrium Grate:
http://www.americangranby.com/ART240/NDS12ATRIUM.JPG

These will give you a *little* more tolerance for junk but they still clog. Catch basins really don't perform all that well in these applications. They are better suited for driveways, concrete pads, etc...

The smooth-bore pipe is not only easier to clean but also less likely to puncture. More expensive for sure, but worth it in my opinion. If you're moving serious water the GPH is also notably higher with smooth-bore pipe.

HeLa: A swale would be the best choice I think, if only the ditch at the road was lower than the low point on my side ditch (where the stake is in pic #1, on the right). It's about the same elevation next to that fire hydrant but it is lower by 10 inches at the point where it enters the culvert, and to run it there means I'd have the swale running right across the side yard. I can't drain to the other end of the side yard ditch because it would dump the water into my neighbor's yard.

That's a pity. Of course, as others mentioned, from just a few photos it is impossible to understand the full lay of the land. It is worth noting that a swale can be *very* gradual so it might be worth a thorough elevation study before totally ruling it out. Considering, of course, that the boss would allow regrading essentially the entire yard ;-)

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[HeLa]

I took a picture with this amateur theodolite and it showed a 3 degree rise from the tape mark to ground level at the hydrant. Would be worse than that if I went to ground level at start & end.

very cool. i just downloaded this. thanks for the tip!

 

[AStanton]

Wings,
You got the right machine for diggin that ditch. My BX-25 dug a ditch over 150-feet long for an under ground utility line to my gazebo.
As far as your project goes, I don't like emitters. I would recommend that you pipe to daylight if possible.

 

[Wingsy]

Stanton: When you're digging, how do you go about moving forward every few feet while using the backhoe? Do you get off, turn the seat around, get in, drive forward, then get off, turn it around again, and dig .... or do you do something like use a stick to hit the forward pedal just a tad while sitting in the backhoe position? Just want to know how most other people do that.

 

[AStanton]

I raise the hoe all the way and center it; raise the stabilizers a few feet; then use a stick. I tried getting fancy once, and used the hoe to push back: I almost tipped the BX over.
I also always try to use gravity and work myself downhill.

Forgot to mention another thing. In the past few years, rain gardens have become the rage around here. These are dug-out areas that catch the water where downspout ends, etc. Plants that thrive on water are planted there with bark mulch. Good way to hide the end of a nasty pipe.

 

[Coyote machine]

For most yard type landscape ditches the simplest approach is often the best way to meet your goal of low to no maintenance. By simplest, I suggest keeping all mechanical or added pieces out to allow flow via contouring the land based on grade characteristics already present. By using a swale and possibly a small berm I believe you can get this done and have no need to do any clean-outs, etc.
So, you could by using a transit, figure out where you need to add topsoil or take away to get the water to flow to the point where you want it to go to. Then add appropriately sized stone to line the ditch. The stone would allow the ditch to clean itself without any real maintenance. The berm would naturally direct the water to the ditch.
You might have to have the site plan drawn out by someone who does this type of work for a living, BUT, if you want to do it once and do it right that may be a worthwhile cost to bear. Depending on soil type in the area you're trying to fix the one thing you might have to add in some areas is either pond liner or commercial grade landscaping fabric to keep the water going where you want it to. This would be placed under select sections of the stone ditch lining. JMHO