Mx5100 spitting the dipstick out?!?

[Purdyfarm]

I started my 2012 MX5100 today. It ran fine for the first 45 minutes. I let it idle in the yard for about 15 minutes then went back to pushing snow. made about 100 foot pass under load and the tractor ejected the dipstick about 30 feet from the tractor. I replaced the dipstick picked the bucket up made it half way to the barn (200 ft) and it did it again. I called my dealer. he advised they are having problems with the breathers freezing. The dealer also advised that they have several units in the shop right now for the same issues. Now I realize it is abnormally cold here. -35 below last night with a 20 mph wind-chill. During the day while I was running it the outside temp was about -15 degrees and about a 15 mph wind. Now according to the dealer they are trying to find a fix for the issue. One thought they had was to mount a magnetic block heater next to the breather, which if your not familiar is located on the top of the valve cover, in an effort to try to warm the breather up. that fix isn't going to help me if the breather is freezing up while the engine is running. (Unless I am going to drag an extension cord around with me). Now I know its cold out but I was also very shocked that the engine block itself was cool to the touch as was the valve covers. I would have expected more heat which would in turn warm up the breather. Is there any issues with putting cardboard in the radiator to attempt to hold the heat in?

The dealer stated they would keep me informed if they found a fix. Anyone have any thoughts on potential fixes?

 

[madmax12]

There are other threads about the cold weather and tractor engines. A theme I found was regarding low rpm use. Recommendations seem to be run Pto rpms and work the tractor "hard". Low rpms and long idle seem to be regarded as harmful, if I have understood the consensus.

 

[2458n]

You should work for the factory. Put cardbord or even a tarp over the front end and engine. Before I went with mobile 1 one my very old L245dt would blow aluminum plugs out of the block. Was able to find the leak as oil was blowing out of a 3/8 inch hole in the block. Plug did not fit in tightly when it was recovered. Used a tap with alot of grease to catch the filings and replaced with a threaded plug. Just watch your temps til they find a cure. Maybe syn. oil. The open station on that tractor saved me a engine. In a cab I would have never smelled or seen it. You would like to think the dealer would be calling whoever bought a tractor like this NEW from them, and let them know of a problem like this existing.

 

[BeezFun]

I'd pull the breather tube. I think it's just a pollution thing, won't hurt the engine any to vent to the air.

 

[nspec]

I don't think it's a pollution thing at all. I think the breather tube is to get the cranckcase vapors away from the intake so the filters stay clean.

 

[nspec]

Also, if too much vapor were fed back into the intake, under the right conditions the engine could run away.

 

[FatTire]

Just curious, what was the temp gauge showing when the block was still cool? Would be interesting to see if you run around 2000 rpm if the block warms up a bit more. Normally when plowing I am below 2000 rpm most of the time.

 

[Purdyfarm]

Apparently they are having issued with skid steers (I'm assuming Kubota but could be a Bobcat as well). The operators aren't aware that the dipstick was tossed out and don't know until they start getting an oil slick.
They have several skid steers in the shop with this same problem. I was the first one to call with the issue on a tractor.

 

[BeezFun]

I don't think it's a pollution thing at all. I think the breather tube is to get the cranckcase vapors away from the intake so the filters stay clean.

I'm not as sure about a diesel, but California required the breather tube to be connected to the air intake sometime back in the 60s when it was shown that would eliminate a lot of the smog. Before that breather tubes just dumped out on the ground, and the oil filler caps had a filter to let in fresh air. Maybe it's different on a diesel, but I always assumed the breather was connected to the engine intake air somewhere.

 

[nspec]

On a lot of the old 2 stroke detroits the vent was run to the air intake. I don't think I've ever seen that on a 4 stroke diesel. A lot of them run a hose or pipe from the actual breather cap to some sort of remotely mounted canister or filter where oil mist is trapped but the gasses can still vent.

So here's my question...where on earth is this 'freezing'? And do they mean actually freezing like with ice, or are they saying it gets plugged? I'm thinking the hose that runs down to the underside of the tractor from the breather cap is freezing from deep snow or more likely condensate is slowly freezing to the point where the tube gets blocked. If that is the case, I would simply shorten the hose so the end is up inside next to the warm engine and not underneath the tractor. You could even make the aforementioned cannister to keep things clean. I can't imagine it's the actual breather cap freezing as it is on the valve cover on top of a warm engine. This should be a pretty simple fix.

 

[KennyG]

The crankcase has to be vented to relieve the pressure as the engine warms up and the air inside expands. It also has to vent the fumes if there is blow by from the pistons. I think most modern engines are vented to the intake, but that really doesn't make a difference. If the vent path is such that moisture will condense and freeze as it passes through the vent system, it will block the vent and the pressure increase will blow out something, most likely the dipstick.

I think it's a design problem. I've only had this happen to one vehicle, an old Fiat 124 and everything on that car was a design error.

 

[KennyG]

Oh, by the way, I cleaned every bit of the Fiat vent system and couldn't fix it. I just drove it without a dipstick in really cold weather. One mechanic told me most people didn't have this problem with their Fiats because they couldn't start them in cold weather. :laughing:

 

[Purdyfarm]

So here's my question...where on earth is this 'freezing'? And do they mean actually freezing like with ice, or are they saying it gets plugged? I'm thinking the hose that runs down to the underside of the tractor from the breather cap is freezing from deep snow or more likely condensate is slowly freezing to the point where the tube gets blocked. If that is the case, I would simply shorten the hose so the end is up inside next to the warm engine and not underneath the tractor. You could even make the aforementioned cannister to keep things clean. I can't imagine it's the actual breather cap freezing as it is on the valve cover on top of a warm engine. This should be a pretty simple fix.[/QUOTE]

The breather cap is located on the top of the valve cover, the hose that comes off of it is about 6 inches long and ties in to the intake. according to the dealer the moisture is a common thing in the breather, which makes sense because all motors produce some moisture. I guess the issue is the new design to the breather itself. It appears to come off with 4 screws but on my model tractor I have to remove the fuel take to get to the screw to take it off.

 

[MHarryE]

I believe there is a crankcase breather valve on the valve cover. There is a hose from this valve to the intake manifold. I am assuming your engine is fairly similar to my L5740. The workshop manual doesn't illustrate the valve very well - there is a top view showing 4 attaching screws holding a cover that might access the valve. On my tractor I can barely see the hose because of 2 tanks covering it. Back in the 60's when they first started putting PVC valves on cars my dad bought a car where the corresponding valve tended to freeze in cold weather and blew out the valve cover gasket a couple times before they came out with a fix. This sounds like what is happening to yours. And yes, PVC is new to many off highway diesels. Tier 3 engines I worked with still had an open breather tube - just an open hose that directed the fumes down and out. Your 2012 tractor under 75 HP is Tier 4 interim and I believe PVC became required. The only older diesel I still have is a 2005 mini-excavator with a straight out hose and the crankcase fumes from that little engine are quite impressive, and smelly. It sounds like Kubota has a problem with their valve that cropped up due to this odd winter.

 

[Purdyfarm]

FatTire, the temp gauge barley comes up off the bottom.

 

[Purdyfarm]

KennyG and MHarryE I believe you are both correct, an engineering issue! Oh wonderful!!

 

[AStanton]

If it is some type of valve hanging up, can't you spray it with some lube like Tri-Flo? Locksmiths put this in locks to prevent them from freezing.

 

[nspec]

Can the pcv valve be removed/elminated and vent to atmosphere as in pre emission days? Obviously dealer won't do it but perhaps it could be done by the owner? Never seen a diesel with a pcv valve. I'm around larger motors and even the tier 4 engines have a cranckcase vent filter - the vent goes straight to a filter cannister which captures the oil mist and allows gases to escape. Just a tube from the valve cover to the filter - no valve.

 

[Recoveryhill]

Oh, by the way, I cleaned every bit of the Fiat vent system and couldn't fix it. I just drove it without a dipstick in really cold weather. One mechanic told me most people didn't have this problem with their Fiats because they couldn't start them in cold weather. :laughing:

I got a chuckle out of that one! "Fix It Again Tony"

 

[Baby Grand]

The crankcase has to be vented to relieve the pressure as the engine warms up and the air inside expands. It also has to vent the fumes if there is blow by from the pistons. I think most modern engines are vented to the intake, but that really doesn't make a difference. If the vent path is such that moisture will condense and freeze as it passes through the vent system, it will block the vent and the pressure increase will blow out something, most likely the dipstick.

I think it's a design problem. I've only had this happen to one vehicle, an old Fiat 124 and everything on that car was a design error.

I had a 1971 SAAB 99 that started pumping engine oil thru the rear seal one very frosty morning on my way to work. Condensation in the PCV valve froze it in the closed position after I shut it down the night before, allowing the crankcase to pressurize on warming up the next day. Replaced the PCV valve and never had the problem again.