Grapple Best "rock" grapple for CUT?

[HillCountry]

Hey folks,

Wife and I are building a house on 12 acres in the Texas Hill Country north of San Antonio. Looking for a sanity check on tractor size and a bit of help with a grapple selection. I plan on keeping this house until they carry me out. The tractor stays until the estate sale.

After hours of reading, a bit of test driving, and discussions with my Dad who's got a 27HP New Holland and a 75HP John Deere, I'm landing on a 40ish HP Kubota (L3940 or similar+) or Kioti (DK40SE HST or similar+). I haven't made it to the various dealers yet, but they are all similar distances from me, none real close but all within about 30 miles in various directions. Phone calls to dealers have given me rough ideas on pricing. No suprises in that Kioti prices best with most features for the buck, Kubota is next, John Deere is premium priced. I'll buy the tractor that seems like the best deal, with the features and fit that appeal to me most, from the dealer that seems like he'll be able to help me take care of any issues that crop up. Any suggestions for a dealer to definitely talk to, or not talk to, in the area between San Antonio and Austin?

The 12 acres is roughly composed of:

• 4 acres, underbrush cleared with clustered and scattered oaks, average 10% slope, some more some less
• 5 acres, more densely wooded but still fairly easy to walk through in "most" areas, same 10% average slope, with underbrush and cedars that I want to clear
• 3 acres, level grassy meadow with a seasonal creek at the back border, trees along the creek
• all except the meadow is rocky soil or rock, even the "good" soil where leaves/acorns/limbs have dropped and decomposed for a hundred years has a lot of large rocks mixed in. The meadow has all the soil that washed down from the wooded acres above, so not many visible rocks.

Top tractor tasks, roughly but not exactly in priority order:

1. Dig/pick up and move rocks, lots and lots of rocks at surface level from 25 lbs to 1500lbs (the ones over 1500 lbs may just have to remain a "feature" of our landscaping)
2. Make rocks into little rock walls through and around trees; some of the little rock walls will be a little more substantial to help guide rainwater during heaving rains and limit erosion
3. Move cedars I push over or cut with chainsaw
4. Mulch said cedars, we often have burn bans in this part of Texas and I want the mulch anyway to put around the oak trees
5. Spread and level topsoil that I have delivered to selected landscape areas
6. Brush hog the 3 acres of meadow a few times a year

The biggest implement question I have is what type of grapple to get. While there are a lot of threads on grapples, most that I found focus more on logs, roots, and underbrush than rocks. While I will certainly want the grapple to do that type of work, I also want it to be easy to use and efficient in picking up and moving surface rocks. There are lots of visible rocks I want to move between 500 and 1500 lbs, then literally thousands that are 3" to 24" scattered around. I want to be able to pick up and precisely place the larger rocks. I want to be able to rake then gather up the smaller rocks. As far as sizing the grapple, a 1500 lb rock might have dimensions something like 5' x 2' x 1', so a 48" grapple is plenty wide as long as it is strong enough and can open up enough. Any guidance from someone who has done this type of work with a CUT and grapple would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
HillCountry

 

[sdef]

Hi HillCountry. I have similar rocks on my 4 acres of densely wooded, rocky land that I will start clearing next month. I thought about the rock issue long and hard and settled on a 48" unit. My plan is to pick up the larger rocks individually and move elsewhere. Then go back with the grapple open and just slide the bucket teeth slightly under ground and get the smaller ones. Once this is done, I will use the rollover box blade's shanks to dig up the subsurface rocks and then go back for another pass with the rock bucket

I have been using the rock grapple around my current home doing exactly as you described, except for no rocks here. I have used the grapple to lift up and destroy an old shed also, along with using it as a carryall for limb pickups, etc. I find it the handiest tool in my arsenal.

I selected 48" vs. larger to keep the weight down as 48" will grab anything a larger unit will and can lift more due to its lighter weight. The only thing a 72" would increase would be the volume you can stash in there. But for me that is not an issue. I just pile/load limbs and brush in the grapple, so far up to about 8' wide and carry it away. I have no need nor desire for a wider unit, especially with the reduced maneuverability around all of my trees.

Actually, I have no idea why folks purchase the root grapples as I think they appear to be less useful than a rock grapple that can also dig, which I have done to get at roots underground.

Here is the one I selected and am impressed with its price and construction. It came with 1/2" ISO 16028 skid steer couplings, which I dearly love as they do not leak when disconnected as the typical ag coupling do.

48" Rock Grapple Bucket Skidsteer Attachment | eBay

 

[Willie B]

There's no such thing as too big a tractor. If someone says otherwise they are wrong. If you plan to keep it forever, maintain it as such. Three point hitch is essential. If you have backhoe questions refer to my first sentence. Shopping price isn't bad, don't let it make your decision. In my case the $110000.00 for my dream tractor was out of the question. The used model like it cost $17000.00. It has served me well except for a couple leaky hydraulic hoses I should have replaced earlier. An industrial backhoe with quicktatch, or at least a Compact track loader will see use almost dailey. Ignore the arguments they are too heavy. Ground pressure per square inch is no higher than little machines. Rock at 180 or so Lbs. per cubic foot weighs up fast A rock 5.5x2x1 weighs a ton. In VT we call those pebbles. My average rock is 3 times that thick. If it is embeded in earth it won't come out easy.

I hear arguments that two machines; a mini excavator and CTL are just as good. OK, if you don't mind buying, maintaining, trucking, and garaging two, I agree.

My cheap old monster is more versatile and capable than the best C.U.T.

 

[HillCountry]

Thanks sdef. Great feedback and info. I like your plan for the rocks. I think I can follow a similar approach in many areas, but we also have a lot of large oaks where I'll have to be careful around roots so the boxblade use will be limited. I've considered the smaller grapple size and think that is good advice since it offers more precision without really limiting the ability to accomplish most tasks. Based on your recommendation I added Wildkat to my list of grapples to check out. I saw a few other posts that they might be slightly under-engineered in the top brace, but maybe they have addressed that issue.

Willie B, I laughed when I read your post. You must live in an area with a lot of open space. My dad has a hundred acres and actually has a D8 dozer that he's used extensively to smooth things out and rebuild ponds. That monster is WAY too big for our little 12 acre residential subdivision lot with trees... trees that I actually want to keep without killing the roots and scraping the trunks. I respectfully disagree with your statement that there is no such thing as too big a tractor. For me, I think the sweet spot is the smallest HST tractor I can get with 30+ HP at the PTO, the ability to move a 1500 lb rock, and wheeled tires that won't destroy vegetation or concrete driveway.

 

[Willie B]

That D8 sounds sweet. Santa never brings anything that cool. If it's one machine for a lifetime, don't rule out a Compact Track Loader, a lot more gentle to your roots, and sooo versatile. With rubber tracks you could run over a kitten without squashing it. PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS!

 

[Willie B]

Even a D8 would leave you 518000 Square Feet. Work with me here!

 

[sdef]

:laughing:

Even a D8 would leave you 518000 Square Feet. Work with me here!

 

[HillCountry]

Ha! I like that.

Willie B, you got me curious enough that I checked out the Bobcat T110. Looks interesting but not quite as versatile as a tractor for my needs. While tree/brush clearing, I want a grapple on the loader and a wood chipper on the 3PT. The track loader has attachments for both but only one can be on at a time. Not quite as efficient. Same for the grapple on the front and a box blade on the back while clearing rocks, and for brush hogging I'm not sure you can beat a tractor. Those compact track loaders sure look interesting though. If I had money and space for both it might be tempting, but for the once or twice a year that I want the extra power of a skid steer... I probably just rent.

FYI, Bobcat lists 67 attachments for the T110. I had no idea there were so many different options out there.

 

[Willie B]

You didn't mention being married to a tyrant. The correct answer is both.

 

[Willie B]

With Quick-tatch these things do everything short of dentistry.

 

[k0ua]

The number one task for my grapple is picking up and building rock walls. I use the EA 50 inch single lid Lightweight. You might want something a little bigger if you get the DK40.

The DK40 has the strongest loader, the mighty DK401. Picking up 1500 lb rocks are well withing its 2760 lb. spec. either tractor is going to work for you.. I HIGHLY reccomend getting hydrostat. you are going to need the precision that a hydro transmission gives you in positioning rocks.

I can pickup up very small to very large rocks with my grapple. The tiny ones are pinched right between the tips of the upper and lower jaw. Of course you can only pick up one rock at a time like that. To pickup large rocks, you "dump" with the FEL control, and open the jaws and come straight down on a large rock from the top. Clamp and pick straight up. This maximizes your lift ability as the rock is not "out there" from the Loader pins, but directly under them. Dont pick of the rock very high when moving, just enough to clear the ground easily. This maximizes your stability by keeping your CG low. Only pickup the rock when you are right by the wall and inch up and lift as needed, creep forward, and set the rock. There you go, free advice,, and worth every penny you paid for it.:laughing: Good luck on the "hunt"

James K0UA

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

I'd love to have a rock wall, but I'm glad I don't have the rocks on my property to build it with.

 

[sdef]

I'd love to have a rock wall, but I'm glad I don't have the rocks on my property to build it with.

I have enough rocks to make my new place into a fortress. My fiance' wants "me" to gather up all of the rocks and make "her" place so she can walk anywhere she wants to at any time she wants to do so. I am telling her I will do that on "her" half of the property. My half is staying natural except where I have to clear for the driveway. She keeps getting her half and my half mixed up. Or it is really, "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable", as I bring it up to her...

But I am safe as she refuses to learn how to drive the tractor. She will sit on it and even start it, but there is NO WAY the tractor is moving with her in the seat... It is FAR larger and noisier than her Toyota Camry. So she will be the ground person handling the chains, Brush Grubber BG-11, reciprocating saw for the tree roots, etc. She'll learn quickly this is not DIY as on TV and that a lot of the work that goes into a DIY episode is not shown on TV in the mini condensed show.

And she dearly wants a rock wall in the front of the property. She has NO CLUE to what this will entail as she watches DIY folks and the "crew" do it all in a weekend... Yeah, right.

 

[sdef]

Based on your recommendation I added Wildkat to my list of grapples to check out. I saw a few other posts that they might be slightly under-engineered in the top brace, but maybe they have addressed that issue.

Yeah, I read a few posts that indicated similar and were probably the same posts if on TBN. I did a lot of research before selecting mine. It is 48" and weighs 550 pounds. All of the metal is 3/8" to 5/8" and I have not seen anything I would consider substandard. I consider this model to be medium duty. WildKat also has a 72" light duty model that weighs the same as my 48" and that one may have been the unit others were referring to. I find it hard to believe the one I have would be in a lightweight category. And they even put on the more expensive Italian flat face couplings and Parker hoses. I have used mine a lot with no indication of any negative issues. But I can't say I have had the grapple bucket at the max loader capacity.

Speaking of loaders since you have not purchased a tractor yet, The LS and Kioti KL401 loaders have the best load capacity of anything I have found. Next best was Yanmar and Mahindra. Shop carefully as all of the others I found had significantly less FEL capacity. Even the NH Boomer series, which are built by LS, have less FEL capacity as NH apparently only purchased the tractor and supplied their own loader for it.

Also, I have read quite a few posts indicating "slop" in the fit of various FEL attachments and the QA assembly and have no slop in any of my attachments. I did notice slop in a new Yanmar's standard bucket I was testing, though.

 

[Willie B]

My Case 580K with extend-a-hoe & thumb sounds better and better. My walls contain nearly 3000 Cubic yards of boulders. I've done very little on the ground hand labor. You'll find it very frustrating whether it's you on the ground or your wife. Unless she loves the work, not much will get accomplished before you have to go to the hospital, or morgue. Machines big or small crush human flesh with ease. Try to find a way to build walls with no hands in close proximity to ground engaging implements.

 

[sdef]

My Case 580K with extend-a-hoe & thumb sounds better and better. My walls contain nearly 3000 Cubic yards of boulders. I've done very little on the ground hand labor. You'll find it very frustrating whether it's you on the ground or your wife. Unless she loves the work, not much will get accomplished before you have to go to the hospital, or morgue. Machines big or small crush human flesh with ease. Try to find a way to build walls with no hands in close proximity to ground engaging implements.

Yes, I have thought about that and will have to figure out a way to do so without getting hurt. I really have no long-term need for a hoe and the rock wall building will not be for a couple more years. I have a lot of attachments for the FEL and may have to invest in a stump grapple like what Pappy has, just to use for the rock wall building, as it will allow me to be precise.

3000 cubic yards? Man, you are WAY out of my league.

 

[arrow]

There's no such thing as too big a tractor. If someone says otherwise they are wrong. .

I don't agree. And if they say so, people aren't "wrong" depending on their situation. I drove both skidders and compact tractors through woods. If you didn't make logging roads, the skidders were abysmal maneuvering through thick woods and they were articulated. A large full size tractor through thick woods is not something I'd want to keep doing if I were not interested in cutting in roads. You can definitely get too large a tractor for certain things.

 

[Willie B]

Please, just my attempt at humor. If we were all alike, thinking the same thoughts there could never be humor. In my opinion, since I can't afford several more machines, I can't afford the most efficient machine for each task. I have bought a machine as versatile as I can find. It isn't true that I get by with one machine. In fact I'm a bit of a glutton for machines. By a wide margin the most useful machine I know of is the commercial sized tractor loader backhoe. By comparison to others, it was cheap. Yet time and again the other machines including a CUT sit in the shed neglected while I play with the backhoe. The difference between a 5' CUT and a 7' wide TBL able to set itself over to one side, balance itself on steep sidehills, make roads for itself, and pull itself out of the worst predicaments, usually favors the backhoe. Where I live, all forests have at some time been logged. You are never more than 200 feet from an old logging road. If that road is in poor condition, I can fix it. I don't ask you to agree, For me, having used machines my whole life (57 years) the most versatile machine on the market is the tractor loader backhoe. Mine fits where I need it, and my trees are thriving.

 

[arrow]

Please, just my attempt at humor. If we were all alike, thinking the same thoughts there could never be humor. In my opinion, since I can't afford several more machines, I can't afford the most efficient machine for each task. I have bought a machine as versatile as I can find. It isn't true that I get by with one machine. In fact I'm a bit of a glutton for machines. By a wide margin the most useful machine I know of is the commercial sized tractor loader backhoe. By comparison to others, it was cheap. Yet time and again the other machines including a CUT sit in the shed neglected while I play with the backhoe. The difference between a 5' CUT and a 7' wide TBL able to set itself over to one side, balance itself on steep sidehills, make roads for itself, and pull itself out of the worst predicaments, usually favors the backhoe. Where I live, all forests have at some time been logged. You are never more than 200 feet from an old logging road. If that road is in poor condition, I can fix it. I don't ask you to agree, For me, having used machines my whole life (57 years) the most versatile machine on the market is the tractor loader backhoe. Mine fits where I need it, and my trees are thriving.

This internet stuff is tough. There is no way to discern tongue and cheek through intonation. The words come in cold, hard and "true". As we do not know each other on this forum, it is difficult to know who is meaning what. I just didn't want a guy thinking of buying a tractor for his own woods thinking he'll need the largest behemoth he can get his hands on and offered an opposing view point. Versatility is a discussion in itself and yet again, has mostly to do with how one operates machinery on their property. I often thought about what would be the most versatile machine as to how I use a machine and I can't come up with anything made. A backhoe is just not stable enough through thick , ground obstructed woods. Having a "digger" aspect would be handy. I actually thought about a mini excavator but they are not really made for pulling and they'd be slow. I once used a D6 to log with for a couple of weeks and even they could become dicey in snow. Really don't know what my most versatile machine would be. Small tele-handler perhaps? Whatever it would be, it would need to be slung low for stability with good ground clearance. The Europeans are good at designing small , stable, strong stuff. Those little skidders they make are cute. Haven't seen one that can dig however.

 

[Xfaxman]

​

Please, just my attempt at humor. If we were all alike, thinking the same thoughts there could never be humor. In my opinion, since I can't afford several more machines, I can't afford the most efficient machine for each task. I have bought a machine as versatile as I can find. It isn't true that I get by with one machine. In fact I'm a bit of a glutton for machines. By a wide margin the most useful machine I know of is the commercial sized tractor loader backhoe. By comparison to others, it was cheap. Yet time and again the other machines including a CUT sit in the shed neglected while I play with the backhoe. The difference between a 5' CUT and a 7' wide TBL able to set itself over to one side, balance itself on steep sidehills, make roads for itself, and pull itself out of the worst predicaments, usually favors the backhoe. Where I live, all forests have at some time been logged. You are never more than 200 feet from an old logging road. If that road is in poor condition, I can fix it. I don't ask you to agree, For me, having used machines my whole life (57 years) the most versatile machine on the market is the tractor loader backhoe. Mine fits where I need it, and my trees are thriving.

This internet stuff is tough. There is no way to discern tongue and cheek through intonation. The words come in cold, hard and "true". As we do not know each other on this forum, it is difficult to know who is meaning what. I just didn't want a guy thinking of buying a tractor for his own woods thinking he'll need the largest behemoth he can get his hands on and offered an opposing view point. Versatility is a discussion in itself and yet again, has mostly to do with how one operates machinery on their property. I often thought about what would be the most versatile machine as to how I use a machine and I can't come up with anything made. A backhoe is just not stable enough through thick , ground obstructed woods. Having a "digger" aspect would be handy. I actually thought about a mini excavator but they are not really made for pulling and they'd be slow. I once used a D6 to log with for a couple of weeks and even they could become dicey in snow. Really don't know what my most versatile machine would be. Small tele-handler perhaps? Whatever it would be, it would need to be slung low for stability with good ground clearance. The Europeans are good at designing small , stable, strong stuff. Those little skidders they make are cute. Haven't seen one that can dig however.

Since the most versatile machine was brought up, I will show mine for those that haven't seen it.

It is 6' wide, 6.5' high and 13' long. Tire size is 14x17.5. Top speed is 15.5 mph and it will lift over 5,000 pounds.

Standard skid steer QA. 7' brush hog.


Moves round bales and dirt.


Moves brush.


It is unstuckable.


More here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...t/160568-compact-telehandler.html#post3243370