I Still Hate My Tractor

[joshuabardwell]

I have heard a couple of references on this thread as to how you can run a gear tractor at lower RPMs but an HST poops out. My understanding is that's not because the HST is sapping HP or anything like that, but because the hydraulic transmission requires good flow rate (i.e. RPMs) to work properly. I have only ever owned an HST tractor, so I'm aware I'm not exactly coming from a position of knowledge, but when I got it, I was told that it needed to be run at close to PTO RPM or it would bog down and act under-powered, and that has been my experience. It's not that the HST has less torque than the gear--and, at the end of the day, if it can spin the wheels, then it's got more torque than you need--but that if you try to run an HST like a gear tractor, trundling away and letting the throttle control the speed, you'll get bad results. I suspect that more than a few bad reviews of HST tractors are coming from people with years of experience behind a gear tractor, who haven't yet figured out that you have to run the throttle differently. And then when they have to run at max throttle all the time, they think it's because the HST is under-powered, when that's not the case. Not saying that's what's going on here, necessarily, just throwing out two cents.

(Which is not to say that the HST doesn't sap some HP, just that it's not a huge amount, and not enough to make up the difference that some folks talk about.)

 

[2458n]

Read most of this thread and got tired. Simple my business agent told me-If your not happy you can quit! If your not happy Sell it.

 

[ericher69]

Thought it was Christmas elves that come out at this time of year not there uglier/nastier cousins...

 

[slowzuki]

Only way I can drag the L5030 down is using the hydraulics combined with large PTO load or pulling large trailer up hill. Deadhead and it will almost stall the tractor if it was already loaded down. If just sitting there it barely changes the rpm.

Try "deadheading" the loader, by curling back and hold it there for a couple of seconds while the pump goes over the relief valve, and see what it does,, I bet about 150 maybe 175 drop. If you think of it, tomorrow when you feed another bale of hay, see what it does with a big ole round bale on the spear. I don't think it will drop much, but it may a little

James K0UA

 

[TomSeller]

My fuel was bought in 1995, no crap but it works fine in every other Diesel I own. What does ULSD have to do with it?
Fred

I'm a Fred fan, but I have to ask this. Did you inherit a diesel tanker truck? How does one come upon enough diesel to last since 1995?

 

[94BULLITT]

I'm a Fred fan, but I have to ask this. Did you inherit a diesel tanker truck? How does one come upon enough diesel to last since 1995?

Maybe he is a "prepper":laughing:

 

[txdon]

I'm a Fred fan, but I have to ask this. Did you inherit a diesel tanker truck? How does one come upon enough diesel to last since 1995?

Tom - in the post that got quickly deleted he said he had it in his basement. ???

 

[TomSeller]

Tom - in the post that got quickly deleted he said he had it in his basement. ???

Go Fred. He lives on top of an oil well he bought in 1995. I need one of those.

 

[Coyote machine]

Though Fred doesn't seem to want to discuss fuel as a possible element in his tractor's poor performance he may be missing the point that all his other diesel equipment runs fine on vintage diesel his new 'Bota is much more sensitive to what it burns. And service manuals are notoriously out of date as to the latest specific model year issues like what fuel to burn, or not to burn. Sometimes supplements are put out that are up to date, but it depends on the manufacturer. The same basic machine can be put out in different markets in different countries and specked for different local fuel usage, but the buyer is likely not going to know what differences are incorporated into each market's particular design, parts use, etc.
So though fuel may not be the cause and effect, it could be exactly that; and it is the one thing everyone else is NOT using on identical market machines. Something to consider, and easy enough to test out.:confused3:

 

[ovrszd]

This afternoon when my wife and son got finished feeding the cows and bedding up the cow shed I tried something with the L3940. I set the RPM's to 2000 and operated the FEL, empty I might add except a HD Round Bale Spear, and the RPM's never dropped lower than 1900. I done this about 5 times up and down just see what it would do.

Wow, it dropped 100 rpms just by activating the loader hydraulics with no tractor movement and the engine in it's peak torque range (2000 rpm)??? I think yours is worse than Fred's, at least his tractor is moving and operating the loader hydraulics at the same time. Try driving up an incline in mid range half throttle (1500 rpm or less) with a bale on and operate the loader hydraulics.

 

[aczlan]

Wow, it dropped 100 rpms just by activating the loader hydraulics with no tractor movement and the engine in it's peak torque range (2000 rpm)??? I think yours is worse than Fred's, at least his tractor is moving and operating the loader hydraulics at the same time. Try driving up an incline in mid range half throttle (1500 rpm or less) with a bale on and operate the loader hydraulics.

To make 10GPM (the L3940 aux hydraulics GPM) at 2500PSI takes 17HP. That is 42% of the engine's 40HP. If you have the hydraulics turned up to 3000PSI (as The Fred has done) it takes 21HP, over 50% of the engine's HP.

Aaron Z

 

[ddb123]

TEST RESULTS!

Probably no one is interested in this, but I did it so I'm going to post it. First, it was 18 degrees this morning (got down to 8 last night) and my tractor sits in an unheated shed with three sides and out of the sun. The glow plugs auto-cycle only. They ran for about 10 seconds and the tractor turned over three times and started. It hacked for about two seconds and then ran fine. Throttle was set to about 1100 rpms. I cleared the drive for about 30 minutes so it was warmed up, then I went to my steepest navigable hill.

The range shifter was in MED-Rabbit. For reference, top speed in this range and setting is 7.4 mph. Auto H-DS was set to OFF. In each instance I climbed the hill with the hydro pedal mashed to the floor and operated only dual functions of the loader.

1500 RPM: as soon as I took off, dropped to 1400, then dropped to about 1200 with loader operation added in.
1700 RPM: dropped to 1600 at GO, then to about 1300 with loader added in.
1800 RPM: dropped to 1700, then about 1450-1500.
2000 RPM: dropped to 1800, then 1600.
2400 RPM: dropped to 2200, then 1900.

So it dropped more the higher the revs were. Of course, my speed was a lot faster with higher revs, too. I then tried it in MED-Turtle. Top speed in this range is 4.4 mph.

1500 RPM: dropped to 1400, then 1300.
1800 RPM: dropped to 1700, then 1600.
2000 RPM: dropped to 1800 and stayed.
2400 RPM: dropped to 2200 and stayed.

Just for kicks, I put the range shifter in LOW-Rabbit. The top speed in this range is 3.6 mph.
1500 RPM: dropped to 1400 and stayed.
1800 RPM: dropped to 1700 and stayed.
2000 RPM: no drop, no drop.
2400 RPM: no drop, no drop.

I usually putt around the yard in MED-Rabbit with the revs anywhere from 1500-1800. I expect some change in engine note from idle (no load) to moving/working (under load).

I think something huge that is being overlooked here is that MED-Rabbit has a top speed that exceeds 10th gear on the GST model or 2nd-High on the manual shift model (both of those have a top speed of 6.9 mph). I don't think anyone would put their GST in 10th or 11th gear and try to crawl up a steep hill while working the loader at half throttle where the engine is only making a portion of its rated hp. Yes, the HST pump is variable but the main gear it is driving isn't.

 

[ddb123]

I forgot to add that I performed the same tests on level ground and the engine never dropped more than 100 rpms in any instance, in case anyone is curious.

 

[kuboman]

I forgot to add that I performed the same tests on level ground and the engine never dropped more than 100 rpms in any instance, in case anyone is curious.

Interesting, I've had similar experience with a L3130. In med range going up a steep hill with loader and counter weight if I operated the loader the tractor would die in a cloud of black smoke. And I mean die!

 

[Bluegill2]

Interesting, I've had similar experience with a L3130. In med range going up a steep hill with loader and counter weight if I operated the loader the tractor would die in a cloud of black smoke. And I mean die!

See, I really don't understand this?

 

[ovrszd]

To make 10GPM (the L3940 aux hydraulics GPM) at 2500PSI takes 17HP. That is 42% of the engine's 40HP. If you have the hydraulics turned up to 3000PSI (as The Fred has done) it takes 21HP, over 50% of the engine's HP.

Aaron Z

Good information Aaron. I would have never guessed that. Explains why a smaller displacement/HP engine suffers more from hydraulic use.

 

[ovrszd]

I forgot to add that I performed the same tests on level ground and the engine never dropped more than 100 rpms in any instance, in case anyone is curious.

I for one was very curious!!!! Saved me from getting out in the cold to run tests on my Brother's L3240. Thank you very much for this information. Is very useable information for Fred to compare his results to.

 

[ddb123]

Interesting, I've had similar experience with a L3130. In med range going up a steep hill with loader and counter weight if I operated the loader the tractor would die in a cloud of black smoke. And I mean die!

See, I really don't understand this?

I agree. I didn't mean that my tractor nearly stalled; it never came close to stalling and ground speed barely slowed. Something doesn't seem right if your tractor dies that way. Although I was reading a thread the other day about DK40/45 owners stalling their tractors while using the loader and NO I'M NOT KNOCKING KIOTI TRACTORS! I just didn't know it was possible to stall a tractor using hydraulics -- I figured the relief would kick in and save the day before that would happen

 

[ericher69]

No reply from OP in how many posts...

 

[murphy1244]

No reply from OP in how many posts...

Said he had enough of this group. Gone with the wind.