Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question

/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #1  

kenmac

Super Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
9,941
Location
The Heart of Dixie
Tractor
McCormick CX105 Kubota MX 5100 HST,
I ran my tractor for most of the day yesterday using the loader. I was moving buckets and buckets of gravel for several hrs. after some time, I wasn't able to get the loader to pick up full buckets of gravel as it was doing when I 1 st. started moving the gravel. Is it possible that the Hyd oil is getting hot causing the hyd pump not to make as much pressure ?:confused3:
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #2  
no mystery there.. some oils thin as they heat. ( add pack controls this ) thin oils bypass seals easier...

might also look for foaming in your hyd sump. not all oils are created equal.
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question
  • Thread Starter
#3  
I didn't buy walmart supertech hyd oil. I bought JD 303 spec. oil from napa (don't recall brand) There was no foaming noticed when I looked in the oil fill hole. Maybe I need to try a synthetic hyd oil. I have no problem buying the higher priced synthetic if, I knew it would solve my problem
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #4  
303 is a darn OLD spec.. like WHALE OIL

Napa sells high end house brands.. and also low end economy oils.

id wager the supertech fluid is a few steps above some of the bargain basement utf oils out there like the shure-flows.. etc. that are as thick as molasis when cold.

given that you probably maintain your machine well.. I'd look at the cheapest thing to check.. and that would be the oil.

If it's anywhere near time for a change.. I'd go get a premium oil.. doens't have to be a tractgor name on it.. jd and NH don't own any oil refineries.. it's oemed by some other company that bottles others as well.. get a premium store or house or other named brand and try it. it's the cheapest route.

take pressure readings cold and hot on old oil and then new oil.

i guess it's an odd chance you might have a relief issue with heat.. but i'd look at oil first.
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #5  
ps.. good luck!
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #6  
I'm no hydraulics expert, but I've been around a few and asked advice from several. What I've always heard is no hydraulic system works as well hot as it does cold, there is a lot of expansion and contraction happens within the components. On average, the more often the temperatures cycle from high to low, and the more often it is operated when hot or cold, the shorter the lifespan of the components. What was recommended to me for prolonging these components was to never operate under load until at operating temps, always let it warm up before starting as this lets everything properly expand so things aren't too tight and creating additional wear. Don't run the system at high load for prolonged periods of time, allow plenty of idle and low load time during and between operations for the system to stay cool. CUT hydraulic systems aren't as robust as commercial duty skid steers and loaders. Once complete, don't just shut the system down, idle it and allow the circulating fluid to help cool down the system. I was told to look for something with a lot of flow and a large reservoir if doing a lot of hydraulic operations. Both, high flow rate and high fluid capacity help maintain steady temperatures over longer periods of work.

In short, heat could be the issue, or the heat may be revealing early warning signs of some upcoming failure.
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question
  • Thread Starter
#7  
I can replace pump ,control/loader valve if that's the issue. I think I'll try another brand HYD oil (other than NAPA).Some have used ATF in these old yanmars. I may give ATF a try. I don't run the tractor/using loader for long periods of time very often . This is the 1st time I noticed this issue
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #8  
Connect a hyd gage and see what the relief pressure is hot or cold.

If fluid is hot, you might have a lot of bypassing.
 
Last edited:
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #9  
G'day I would guess a worn pump, would need to flow and pressure test from cold to operating temp.


Jon
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #10  
kenmac
If your tractor has a hyd oil cooler is it clean? if it doesn't have a hyd oil cooler you might think about adding one the hyd system
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #11  
no mystery there.. some oils thin as they heat. ( add pack controls this ) thin oils bypass seals easier...

I haven't heard of an oil yet that doesn't get thinner as it heats! Full synthetic generally doesn't thin as much, but that all depends on the VI improvers used in the additive package.

As far as testing your system JJ is on the right path.
1. Check you relief pressure with cold oil. Set it to the high side of the OEM's recommended range and be aware that you might have one relief on the tractor and another one set a little lower on the FEL
2. Heat the oil to 150-170°F.
3. Check when hot. If it is below the recommended range there are three prime suspects. A: a weak spring in a relief valve B: a worn pump and C: worn out hydraulic oil.

If you suspect the oil you could save yourself some time and $ by getting it checked first. You should be able to get it analyzed for about $30. Get the oil warm and thoroughly mixed before you take the sample for best results. If you can't find a lab most CAT deals have an inhouse facility.

The ideal is to compare a sample of new unused oil to the used oil in your tractor. At work I always pull a sample when brand new to get a baseline. But if you don't still have the exact same barrel don't bother sampling new oil because oil is mixed in batches and will vary.

A quick way to warm the oil is to fully stroke a function and hold it over relief with the engine at about 2/3 throttle. Do this 15-20 seconds at relief and then 40 seconds with the lever in neutral. Repeat twice more, then fully cycle all the motions to mix the warm and cold oil. Repeat until the oil in the reservoir (usually your tranmission case) is at least 150°F.

ISZ
 
/ Hydraulic Oil / Pump Question #13  
for 30$ he could be into 5g of new oil...
 

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