Honeywell Digital Thermostat

[3930dave]

When checking a house for a vacationing relative, I found the AC down.

Older Honeywell digital thermostat, LCD display, with a separate base mounted on the wall. You pull the whole thermostat out of the base mount, to get at the batteries on the back of the thermostat.

3xAA alkaline. Negative battery contact severely corroded by a leaking Duracell AA. On this Honeywell (and others, including newer ones I've seen), the control box runs entirely off the 3 AA's, they are not just Programming backup batteries.

Cleaned up the terminal, greased it, and popped in 3 new AA's. Good to go, after programming.

Labelled the door/cover with date batteries were changed. I'm going to recommend to the owner that they change the batteries once a year, in November.

Coming home to a hot, humid house is one thing. Having this happen (over the cost of 3 AA's, once a year) when it's -35 out is another.

Rgds, D.

 

[kco]

This is a good reminder. I likely have the same thermostat. We moved her 10 years ago and the batteries went out once. It took me a while to figure it out and I changed them. That's likely 5 to 7 years ago. I'm going to change them today. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[3930dave]

This is a good reminder. I likely have the same thermostat. We moved her 10 years ago and the batteries went out once. It took me a while to figure it out and I changed them. That's likely 5 to 7 years ago. I'm going to change them today. Thanks for the reminder.

You're most welcome kco.

Let's pretend this thread is part of my battle against Bells and Whistles being Added, at the Expense of Reliability, and we won't be far off the mark.

From an engineering standpoint I find the design borders on negligent, when used in geographies with below freezing temperatures.

Good quality AA's should last more than a year in these Honeywell's. If it was mine, for the AA's I'd take out after 1 year, I'd just cycle them through the TV etc. remotes.

Rgds, D.

 

[BobRip]

Some of these thermostats can run off of batteries and the 24 volt transformer. You probable have to add a wire to get a ground to run off the 24 volts transformer. Some people are too lazy to do that.

 

[deerseeker001]

i had a new furnace and central air installed a few years ago and them they were putting a new thermostat in.i seen it was digital one and it took batteries and had them take it out and install the round Honeywell.i am not coming home when its -20 to find out its because of a couple batteries.

 

[3930dave]

My own thermostat is olde school mechanical, for the reasons discussed.

A digital "brain", with primary power fed externally is the minimum I would use.

These Honeywell's running stand-alone on batteries are reasonably reliable, providing the alkaline batteries are in good shape.

For consumers being submerged in technology, it is easy to forget what our vulnerabilities and priorities really are.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Got a genuine thank you from the homeowner.

They then went on to say that they'd recently signed up to get an Internet capable free thermostat, from one of the local utilities. Guess that takes less effort than changing batteries.... :laughing:

The Bait is slightly reduced rates, the hook is the utility being able to load shed. I've made my opinions on this subject clear elsewhere, won't go back down that road today....

Some people get what Thoreau was on about, some never will.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Raspy]

Got a genuine thank you from the homeowner.

They then went on to say that they'd recently signed up to get an Internet capable free thermostat, from one of the local utilities. Guess that takes less effort than changing batteries.... :laughing:

Some people get what Thoreau was on about, some never will.....

Rgds, D.

There's a little more to it than that.

First, some people just like high tech. But Internet thermostats give people the chance to turn on the heat before they get to house in the mountains, or check to verify if they turned off the heat when they left, or verify that the system is working.

Many people don't like battery stats because they have to remember to change the batts, how to do it and when to do it. Some houses have over a dozen thermostats which would mean over 24 batteries changed each year. What a hassle. The best technology is invisible and if I can make people forget they even have a thermostat, I'm doing a better job than if I require them to service the system each year. I get calls every year from people that have no heat. My first request is that they change the batts and call back if that doesn't give them heat. Often it does.

But one thermostat I won't recommend is the Nest.

 

[3930dave]

12 Thermostats ? Electric Heat ? 30,000 square foot house ?

I understand a bit about telemetry in general, and some of the specifics of the problems associated with 'Net enabled thermostats. One of the weaknesses is the electric utilities themselves; widespread low level (but high tech, if that makes sense) technology implementations are not really in their DNA.

Yes, remote data gathering, and control, does have it's attractions. I have no issue with that, when it is done in a reliable fashion.

Part of my usual sarcasm is directed at "OK, so you added just a bit of complexity previously..... how did that work out ?". That's what some people don't get, or choose to ignore.

I've talked with people locally who went with early versions of electric load shedding. It was badly implemented and run.

Myself, I'm not interested in opening up a critical system like my furnace to worldwide external influence, just for the sake of a minor rate reduction.

But, I understand that I may in the minority, as modern consumers go.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Raspy]

It does seem ridiculous to have so many stats. I'm in the radiant heat business and that delivery system lends itself to a lot of stats, so people want them. I don't like high numbers like that because it makes the homeowner program them all or just forget about it and leave them all set without programs.

The Nest system is designed to gather info, through the internet, about each house it is installed in and develop a database The stats notice if people are home and program themselves. This leads to another set of problems, but the thinking is that it can identify problems if the house responds differently than usual and they can notify the homeowner if the bill seems too high, etc. But a lot of it is based on engineers trying to solve problems they really don't understand. And control of the system becomes too complicated for the homeowner.

At least with the "simpler" internet stats, you can see the display on a smart phone and adjust it easily. Not only from miles away, but from upstairs. Still, it's not for me. Simpler is better.

In my house, which is nearing completion, there will be a solar only thermostat next to a programmable thermostat in each zone. Four zones total. The simple digital stats from Lux or Honeywell are reliable and interchangeable between locations if one fails. They'll run, if forgotten, for a number of years on their batteries.

 

[3930dave]

It does seem ridiculous to have so many stats. I'm in the radiant heat business and that delivery system lends itself to a lot of stats, so people want them. I don't like high numbers like that because it makes the homeowner program them all or just forget about it and leave them all set without programs.

The Nest system is designed to gather info, through the internet, about each house it is installed in and develop a database The stats notice if people are home and program themselves. This leads to another set of problems, but the thinking is that it can identify problems if the house responds differently than usual and they can notify the homeowner if the bill seems too high, etc. But a lot of it is based on engineers trying to solve problems they really don't understand. And control of the system becomes too complicated for the homeowner.

At least with the "simpler" internet stats, you can see the display on a smart phone and adjust it easily. Not only from miles away, but from upstairs. Still, it's not for me. Simpler is better.

In my house, which is nearing completion, there will be a solar only thermostat next to a programmable thermostat in each zone. Four zones total. The simple digital stats from Lux or Honeywell are reliable and interchangeable between locations if one fails. They'll run, if forgotten, for a number of years on their batteries.

Mulitple zones in a larger house makes sense, setup as you describe for yours. Part of why I started this thread is that dead batteries is the main vulnerability that will stop the digital Honeywell's I've seen - otherwise they seem pretty good.

Many single digital stats don't get programmed, just set to a fixed temperature only. Really a waste in that case, the customer gains nothing from the added complexity of the control.

Radiant heat, that makes sense. A house I had many years ago had electric baseboards - it was nice to have each room at exactly the desired temperature.

I'm liking what I've seen of the mini-splits systems, I might take a serious look at those next time around.

Rgds, D.

 

[MacLawn]

Raspy, you almost answered me question - now hold on, you cain't just say you don't like Nest - ye gotta tell us why. I've been researching them high dollar Nests since they first came out. I like the idea of being able to control it from anywhere for our other house. What don't ye like about them?

oh, and sorry about old Thoreau, but hey, here we are on high tech computers online and wantin' to be like that old boy...:thumbdown:

 

[3930dave]

Raspy, you almost answered me question - now hold on, you cain't just say you don't like Nest - ye gotta tell us why. I've been researching them high dollar Nests since they first came out. I like the idea of being able to control it from anywhere for our other house. What don't ye like about them?

oh, and sorry about old Thoreau, but hey, here we are on high tech computers online and wantin' to be like that old boy...:thumbdown:

I can make some quasi-educated guesses about self-modifying code Mac', but I'll leave the specifics to Raspy.

Just about anybody can write control code today - it's often done by a low bidder on the other side of the planet, who may be several layers removed from having any actual direct knowledge of HVAC controls.

In context, if Thoreau was around today, he'd be running Linux... but that's worth a dozen or so separate discussion threads itself, so I'll leave that alone here.....

Everybody's circumstances are different. I'm willing to bet Mac' that you might change your views on HVAC control complexity if you spent a Winter in northern Canada, and had to Ctrl/Alt/Delete the control to get your heat fired back up, so you could get to work replacing broken water pipes...

I can see the value of remote monitoring and control, I'm just not sold on the security and reliability of today's systems yet.

I'll be interested in what Raspy has to say.

Rgds, D.

 

[MacLawn]

Thanks, Dave. Raspy..... calling old Raspy.... Hep me on me thoughts about getting a Nest... From all me research since they first came out about two years ago, I haven't read any negatives about it yet. I've contacted them a few times since last year, located right here in USA, speaking English with what I call California accent (yep, y'all boys have accent too), and very helpful people. Seems to me logging in, controlling ye Nest would be as secure as logging in to me credit union account.

 

[aczlan]

The best technology is invisible and if I can make people forget they even have a thermostat, I'm doing a better job than if I require them to service the system each year.

This^ Good technology should be in the background and not need any attention paid to it.

Aaron Z

 

[MacLawn]

That's the truth, acz. I now have one of them high tech Honeywell (or maybe it's Carrier) programmable thermostats, and man, that thing is not easy to set up! Therefore, I just set it on temp I want, then set the "Hold" button to keep it there. That's one reason the Nest is appealing to me.

 

[dmccarty]

Thanks, Dave. Raspy..... calling old Raspy.... Hep me on me thoughts about getting a Nest... From all me research since they first came out about two years ago, I haven't read any negatives about it yet. I've contacted them a few times since last year, located right here in USA, speaking English with what I call California accent (yep, y'all boys have accent too), and very helpful people. Seems to me logging in, controlling ye Nest would be as secure as logging in to me credit union account.

Since the Nest was mentioned on this discussion and the one you started, I looked them up. There are quite a few bad reviews on Amazon you might want to read. Most review were positive but there were some comments that bothered me. I was trying to figure out the Nest networking but I stopped looking when they said they did not support OpenWRT and the Linksys WRT54G router.

My concern is that the Nest sends your information to their server and you have to be logged into their server to get your information and updates. Can one update the software without being connected to the Internet? So far I can't see that one can. Nest better have some DANGED good security on their website and on their device. This would be a hackers dream to attack.

The only thing we would find useful in the Nest would be tracking how many times the cooling is turned on and for how long. The rest of the features seem to make something simple, complex. I could see having remote access to the thermostat could be useful for someone that travels, or has a second home, but for us, we simply set the temp as needed. There is no way this device could work for us. We have had the cooling turned off for days, but today or tomorrow we will have to cool down the house again, but if the overnight temperatures and humidity is low enough, we open the windows. We adjust the temperature based on our comfort level which depends on a variety of things. Course, in the winter we heat with wood so the only time we use the thermostat is when we need to cool the house or if we run out of firewood. Even if we heated and cooled with electricity, the complexity of the device, privacy and security issues, cause me some concern.

Later,
Dan

 

[aczlan]

Since the Nest was mentioned on this discussion and the one you started, I looked them up. There are quite a few bad reviews on Amazon you might want to read. Most review were positive but there were some comments that bothered me. I was trying to figure out the Nest networking but I stopped looking when they said they did not support OpenWRT and the Linksys WRT54G router.

That makes no sense. Absent some specific code on the NEST which doe not allow connecting to Linksys wireless access points, there is no reason for the wireless signal from a OpenWRT box to look any different than anyone else's.

Aaron Z
(Just finished setting up OpenWRT 12.09 on a TP-Link TL-WR1043ND)

 

[dmccarty]

That makes no sense. Absent some specific code on the NEST which doe not allow connecting to Linksys wireless access points, there is no reason for the wireless signal from a OpenWRT box to look any different than anyone else's.

Aaron Z
(Just finished setting up OpenWRT 12.09 on a TP-Link TL-WR1043ND)

Yep, does not make sense to me either but that is what they say on their website. :confused3:

Open-source access point firmware such as DD-WRT, OpenWRT and Tomato are not supported by Nest. While some versions may work well with Nest, compatibility may vary from release to release.

Later,
Dan

 

[aczlan]

Yep, does not make sense to me either but that is what they say on their website. :confused3:

Odd. Perhaps they had some versions with flaky firmware and as such made a blanket decision not to support them...

Aaron Z