X700 series hydraulics.

[JDTank]

I have a 2012 X740. My hydraulic system is 924 PSI at 4.5 GPM. Does my tractor have enough hydraulic power to use this hydraulic cart?

Cub Cadet Parts

I am concerned that if I splurge and buy this cart, once I get it home and fill it full of gravel, that my hydraulics will not be strong enough to lift the loaded bed.

Thoughts?

 

[Gittyup]

That's a pretty big trailer. Full to the top with gravel would be quite heavy. But, I think you have enough hydraulics to use it effectively. You might have to only fill 3/4 full or so. It depends on the angle of the cylinder in relation to the load and pivot point. You can calculate the lift if you had the geometry of the trailer.

 

[JDTank]

That's a pretty big trailer. Full to the top with gravel would be quite heavy. But, I think you have enough hydraulics to use it effectively. You might have to only fill 3/4 full or so. It depends on the angle of the cylinder in relation to the load and pivot point. You can calculate the lift if you had the geometry of the trailer.

To be honest I am a little frustrated. I wish I had stronger hydraulics, but I guess I should be thankful I have any!

I was thinking about asking the builder to build me a slightly smaller trailer, same design. The problem with that is, he builds a lot of these, he knows the design. If I ask him to build me a custom one, I will have to pay for all of his time making a new design work well.

I can't tell you how frustrated I am with my #18 JD cart. The dump angle is a joke. Almost every time I dump the trailer and pull away, the load simply stays in the trailer. I try to jitter it out by pulsating the forward pedal in quick succession, but to no avail. Not only is that a PIA, it's hard on the hydro system too. It is also a PIA to get off the tractor, remove the tail gate, release the latch, get back on the tractor, drive around for an eternity trying to unload it, than get back off, reinstall the tail-gate, lock the latch, and than FINALLY get back on and go back.

I know I can't go on like this for much longer, I haul material almost everyday and I will be doing so for years to come. I need an efficient system.

 

[jenkinsph]

You might inquire about having a larger diameter cylinder installed for a small upcharge. For an additional $50 they should be able to do this for you. If not you could change it out yourself if you need to.

 

[JDTank]

You might inquire about having a larger diameter cylinder installed for a small upcharge. For an additional $50 they should be able to do this for you. If not you could change it out yourself if you need to.

Do you think gaining volume in the cylinder will help compensate for the lower pressure of the hydraulic system?

 

[jenkinsph]

Do you think gaining volume in the cylinder will help compensate for the lower pressure of the hydraulic system?

Yes, if the piston area is increased the resulting force is increased. For example a 1.5 inch diameter cylinder will have an area of 1.77 sq inches x940 psi =1660 lbs of force. A 2.0 inch cylinder would have 3.14 sq inches x 940 psi= 2953 lbs of force. I should add that very few manufactures design equipment to work at the upper limits of system relief pressure, most operations on your mower including deck raising and 3ph would operate around 400 to 500 psi.

If you really like the cart I think I would try it as is and if you need to change the cylinder you can buy one from Surplus Hydraulics for a low cost.

 

[JDTank]

Yes, if the piston area is increased the resulting force is increased. For example a 1.5 inch diameter cylinder will have an area of 1.77 sq inches x940 psi =1660 lbs of force. A 2.0 inch cylinger would have 3.14 sq inches x 940 psi= 2953 lbs of force. I should add that very few manufactures design equipment to work at the upper limits of system relief pressure, most operations on your mower including deck raising and 3ph would operate around 400 to 500 psi.

If you really like the cart I think I would try it as is and if you need to change the cylinder you can buy one from Surplus Hydraulics for a low cost.

Do you think 1/4'' line from my front hydraulic couplers to the rear of my tractor is sufficient for this setup?

 

[JDTank]

Cub Cadet Dump Trailer - YouTube

Here is a video of an old cub machine doing a run up and down of the trailer. I would think my X740 has a quite a bit more hydraulic power than that old cub machine would. He is running it at a lower RPM too, not even full throttle. I know it is empty, but it still moves pretty fast considering.

 

[jenkinsph]

JD, I think I would use the same size as the 45 loaders use, whatever that is.

 

[Gittyup]

Do you think 1/4'' line from my front hydraulic couplers to the rear of my tractor is sufficient for this setup?

1/4" line is fine.

 

[Gittyup]

In looking at the video, if you needed to, you could move the cylinder connection closer to the front of the trailer. The more vertical the piston, the more force you'll get, and the closer to the front, the less force you'll need. This is what I did with my CMI trailer.

You could also raise the trailer higher off the frame. This not only allows the cylinder to be more vertical, but also gives you more clearance to dump onto the ground. This would be a simple modification for the manufacturer. You might want to at least inquire about it.

 

[TCowner]

JD, I think you will fine. I had the hydraulic dump material collection system on my X595 and there is a considerable amount of weight when the collection chamber is full of wet grass. Granted, its more of a direct upward lift of the two cylinders but when it gets to the end of the lift cycle the collection chamber pivots which requires some fairly substantial hydraulic power. The 595 handled it with east.

If your 720 can handle the loader that John Deere builds for it I have to believe the hydraulic pump will provide enough power for that trailer.

 

[Gary Fowler]

That trailer has a much too large bed to be filling FULL of rocks. I think you would exceed the frame capacity if you did. Check the manufacturers rating for this before loading it with dirt or rocks. As for lifting, you likely have the pressure to lift what the capacity of the trailer is, but be cautious with loading with compact material like sand, dirt and rocks. It also looks like the center of the load could shift behind the axles causing an uplift force on the hitch that could lift your tractor off the ground in some cases (like forgetting to unlock the dump gate)

 

[dmrp6510]

Have him build it with a scissor lift on the hydraulics.

 

[jenkinsph]

That trailer has a much too large bed to be filling FULL of rocks. I think you would exceed the frame capacity if you did. Check the manufacturers rating for this before loading it with dirt or rocks. As for lifting, you likely have the pressure to lift what the capacity of the trailer is, but be cautious with loading with compact material like sand, dirt and rocks. It also looks like the center of the load could shift behind the axles causing an uplift force on the hitch that could lift your tractor off the ground in some cases (like forgetting to unlock the dump gate)

I agree not to fill it full of rocks and gravel, too much weight for that trailer.

 

[JDTank]

I agree not to fill it full of rocks and gravel, too much weight for that trailer.

I never intended to try and fill it right to the top, but I just wanted to be sure it could take SOME abuse. I should have phrased it better in the beginning.

I figure, if I have heavy material like soil, gravel, I will only fill it to the point where the body starts to get wider. Right now it says on his website that this trailer is 5 feet long. My plan was to ask him to shorten the trailer to 4 feet. This will also drop some weight off the trailer and allow me to haul higher loads of material in a shorter bed space. One issue I see is that the axle is behind center on this cart. If I load the cart evenly, I will have a significant amount more weight on the back of my tractor than on the back of the trailer. I can understand why he did this though. When your hinge point is at the very back, if your axle is too far forward when you are dumping, that cart will want to jump all over the place as the load rushes out. So far it is the best cart I have come across to date, and I don't have the time/welding skills/access to raw steel that he seems to have.

The worst case/most expensive scenario I see is if I buy the cart as is and modify it myself. I am actually leaning towards that approach because than I can make it work best for my particular machine.

I was also thinking to increase dumping ability, I could add a second hydraulic cylinder. Simply move the one in the middle over to one side, install an identical cylinder on the other side, and install a T fitting for the hydraulics. Sound like an ok plan?

 

[ccsial]

I never intended to try and fill it right to the top, but I just wanted to be sure it could take SOME abuse. I should have phrased it better in the beginning.

Keep in mind that gravel weighs between 2500 and 3000 lbs per yard depending on moisture and size. That trailer has a 2000 lb axle. The weight of the trailer has to be accounted for also. I'd never pull anything that heavy with my 748 if it was hilly. I doubt I'd want to haul more than 1/2 yard. When your dumping the load shifts to the back and will pull up on the rear of the tractor. That's probably why the axle is rearward.

I have a dumping trailer I pull with my Ram diesel. I haul about 4 yards in that. When climbing a grade on the gravel trail I need 4WD engaged on the truck. I am going slow at that point for spreading. It takes quite a bit of weight off the hitch and rear wheels when dumping/spreading.

 

[Shamus M]

what are you doing to justify the costs of something like this. There are better options at much lower costs. What will you be loading this with? by hand? Maybe you will be better off buying a used old loader. Sounds like the only problem is the dumping angle of the cart you have now. Why don't you just modify that and save your money? if its just a expensive man toy I could understand but sounds like a waste of time and money especially if loading by hand. only way I could see this being justified is if it was being used for moving a lot of material being loaded by another machine in a fast paced environment where a larger trailer couldn't fit.

 

[JDTank]

what are you doing to justify the costs of something like this. There are better options at much lower costs. What will you be loading this with? by hand? Maybe you will be better off buying a used old loader. Sounds like the only problem is the dumping angle of the cart you have now. Why don't you just modify that and save your money? if its just a expensive man toy I could understand but sounds like a waste of time and money especially if loading by hand. only way I could see this being justified is if it was being used for moving a lot of material being loaded by another machine in a fast paced environment where a larger trailer couldn't fit.

I am on a new property that needs a LOT of work. The previous tenants simply dumped all of there yard waste everywhere. Half of the 8 acre parcel we are on is not used. We have absolutely no use for it, and the ground is not suitable for any kind of farm revenue. I am hauling yard waste from one side of the 8 acre property, to the other. I can load the trailer by hand pretty fast, I waste more time unloading than loading most times. Right now, unloading requires me to get off my machine 3 separate times. If I had that hydraulic trailer, I would not need to get off one time.

I am trying to get out of debt right now, so buying a loader is not an option. I am very short on money and will be for the next 4 years yet. This trailer is as affordable a solution I will find for now. I plan to get a bigger tractor in about 5 years time, but obviously, I don't want to leave my projects until that time.

I always have a use for a trailer on my property, it is by far my most used attachment. It's hard to explain, but right now the way things are setup, it is vital.

The trailer I have now is not worth modifying. It is a John Deere #18 cart. The steel is far too thin to make it into anything heavy duty and worthwhile. I do not own a welder and I have no welding knowledge. It would cost me thousands of dollars to pay someone to custom fabricate a trailer from scratch. Even if I just used my trailer occasionally, I would still want hydraulic dump, who wouldn't?

 

[ccsial]

Your OP stated you were concerned about lifting power when hauling gravel. Your last post stated the reason as hauling yard waste. That's a huge weight difference. If it's yard waste I don't think you have a big problem.