Diesel Engine Oil

[Z71]

I worked for 31 years in lube oil industry with Exxon. We knew from our research that the synthetics were the best. So, when Exxon and Mobil merged I could finally switch to Mobil 1 without being a traitor. Cannot find (except at exorbitant prices) Mobil 1 ESP for our Jetta TDI though. Have to buy the Castrol Edge from the dealer. Castrol used to never make a drop of oil. They just marketed it after blending and buying from others. Wonder if Castrol Edge isn't just blended Mobil 1 ESP?

Castrol is owned buy BP. Mobil 1 and Castrol got into a big pyssing match back in 1999 over what constituted a synthetic oil. I doubt EXM is going sell Castrol anything or that Castrol would even entertain that thought.

As reported in Part 1 of this story (October 1999 Lubricants World), the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in April 1999 that Castrol Syntec motor oil can be marketed as a synthetic. The decision followed a complaint filed by Mobil that as of December 1997, Castrol no longer used polyalphaolefins (PAOs) but hydroprocessed base oils to formulate the product. The decision is final, but the impact it might have on the lubricants industry could open the floodgates on how synthetics are marketed.

 

[3930dave]

Actually, you can find German Castrol at China mart, and Canadian tire also. My local car quest has it, they do sell a lot of it.

I'll snap a pic of a label next time i am through.

From BITOG, I recall the "German Castrol" term..... still working on clarifying their line of products in my mind....

Was in Walmart recently. Castrol Edge SPT 5W40 is CF (as in Foxtrot) rated. S_ too of course.

Will - is this the Castrol version you were talking about, or did you mean something more modern (in terms of API diesel rating) ?

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

What does the operator's manual say to use?

 

[3930dave]

What does the operator's manual say to use?

Question is directed to ?

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I see Valvoline All Fleet Plus 15W40 showing up at Walmart here.

If I read the datasheet correctly, looks like they have a straight 50 ? I wouldn't try that, unless I lived near Death Valley, but I'm sure it has it's heavy equipment applications.

Valvoline.com > Products > Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oils > > Valvoline All-Fleetｮ Plus Diesel Engine Oil

Rgds, D.

 

[WilliamBos]

From BITOG, I recall the "German Castrol" term..... still working on clarifying their line of products in my mind....

Was in Walmart recently. Castrol Edge SPT 5W40 is CF (as in Foxtrot) rated. S_ too of course.

Will - is this the Castrol version you were talking about, or did you mean something more modern (in terms of API diesel rating) ?

Rgds, D.

That may be the stuff. I will stop tomorrow and grab a pic.

 

[buickanddeere]

What does the operator's manual say to use?

To everybody who doesn't know what oil to use. Why ask Bubba when the engineers that designed the machine can tell you what is required.

 

[3930dave]

To everybody who doesn't know what oil to use. Why ask Bubba when the engineers that designed the machine can tell you what is required.

Agreed, the Owner's Manual is where I start from myself. Assumes that one can at least get a hold of an electronic copy, the paper copy often being long departed.

That said, if the equipment is more than 10 years old, lube oil has changed quite a bit in that time. I have an interest in oil technology myself, so end up hanging around oil discussions; that, and I can't stand turning on a TV......

I'm interested in the Castrol Edge that came up here..... rare today for a "gas" lube oil to be C_ rated. I think it is only CF rated, so only suits older diesels....

Yes..... always worth chasing down the OE manual, as dealers often take the "just throw this in" approach to oil. They aren't always steering you wrong with the latest oil that they stock, but I prefer to understand the whole original story.

Rgds, D.

 

[WilliamBos]

To everybody who doesn't know what oil to use. Why ask Bubba when the engineers that designed the machine can tell you what is required.

Some owners manuals are still SPec'ing CC, which was obsolete in the early 1980's. Grades sould still be the same.

 

[Z71]

Know why people want what they call "German Castrol"? Because in Germany they are not allowed to market Gr. III hydro-processed petroleum oil as Synthetic. So to sell oil in Germany and call it synthetic (like in the USA), it has to be a Gr. IV base oil (PAO).

Group III-base stocks are widely permitted to be marketed as synthetic motor oil with few exceptions, Germany for one.

 

[3930dave]

Know why people want what they call "German Castrol"? Because in Germany they are not allowed to market Gr. III hydro-processed petroleum oil as Synthetic. So to sell oil in Germany and call it synthetic (like in the USA), it has to be a Gr. IV base oil (PAO).

Group III-base stocks are widely permitted to be marketed as synthetic motor oil with few exceptions, Germany for one.

You'd almost get the impression that the Germans are serious about their technology ! :thumbsup:

Yeah.... there are a lot of Marketing types on this side of the pond that get paid a lot of money to obfuscate us peasants.....

Hydro-cracked oils have come a long way, but PAO they still aren't.

Rgds, D.

 

[Z71]

99% of all synthetics on the shelves are Gr III, mostly all of them by big name oil companies are Gr. III. Very few true synthetics available, AMSOIL Signature Series, Mobil 1 Extended Performance are 2 of the most popular.

 

[WilliamBos]

99% of all synthetics on the shelves are Gr III, mostly all of them by big name oil companies are Gr. III. Very few true synthetics available, AMSOIL Signature Series, Mobil 1 Extended Performance are 2 of the most popular.

Up here Petro Canada is another excellent oil, a true synthetic,

 

[3930dave]

99% of all synthetics on the shelves are Gr III, mostly all of them by big name oil companies are Gr. III. Very few true synthetics available, AMSOIL Signature Series, Mobil 1 Extended Performance are 2 of the most popular.

I'd have to check over on BITOG, but the "regular" Mobil 1 0W40 might be Group IV.

0W-40 Synthetic Oil | Mobil 1 0W-40

Rgds, D.

 

[DeereMann]

3930dave,

I've read someplace Mobil is offering a cut-rate "synthetic", Mobil "Super" synthetic. Trying to get more market share, I presume.

Here is the corporate blather from the website (price was not much different at welfaremart):

Why do you offer customers more than one synthetic oil choice?

A variety of synthetic oil technologies exist, and we recognize that consumers have different needs. That’s why we now offer a wider range of synthetic oil technologies.

Mobil 1, our line of advanced full synthetic oils, uses the latest in additive and base oil technologies for ultimate performance and protection. Mobil Super Synthetic is a full synthetic that uses synthetic-base oils and provides performance consistent with many synthetics in the market.

 

[3930dave]

3930dave,

I've read someplace Mobil is offering a cut-rate "synthetic", Mobil "Super" synthetic. Trying to get more market share, I presume.

Here is the corporate blather from the website (price was not much different at welfaremart):

Why do you offer customers more than one synthetic oil choice?

A variety of synthetic oil technologies exist, and we recognize that consumers have different needs. That逞ｴ why we now offer a wider range of synthetic oil technologies.

Mobil 1, our line of advanced full synthetic oils, uses the latest in additive and base oil technologies for ultimate performance and protection. Mobil Super Synthetic is a full synthetic that uses synthetic-base oils and provides performance consistent with many synthetics in the market.

Sometimes you do have to be earning your living as a tribologist to really make sense out of it all....

I hadn't paid much attention to Super yet, so went to find this:

Mobil USA | Car Engine Oils | Product Comparison Chart

The advertising I'd seen in Canada was for their conventional Super, the 5000. So right away, I see a perception problem.... they now are selling both their conventional and synthetic under the Super label.

Mobil makes decent products. Once the Pandora's box of something other than a Group IV oil can be marketed as Synthetic got opened, they all have to play the game, at least if they want to be anything other than a very niche oil.

So what we end up with are brand extensions, both up and down. It's all about price point. You can see it with Amsoil's offerings, they usually have 2, if not 3 synthetic variants to choose from in mainstream products.

Nothing wrong with that, unless you are needlessly confusing the customer. I think back to the old Sears catalog model - Good/Better/Best. For most products, the price points of all 3 have a sizeable market following.

Smart oil companies had better be able to quickly summarize to customers the differences between their products, like the Mobil chart I linked.

Very cold Winters, and Turbo use aside, many consumers will be well served by a decent conventional oil, changed no later than the vehicle OEM specifies.

Many of these same consumers (road vehicles) could best spend their time understanding whether or not their vehicle use profile falls under Severe Duty. Many don't understand what that is, and is one reason the onboard OLMs were designed.

Rgds, D.

 

[FTG-05]

LouieJunior,
I used to work in Industrial Lubricants for a major oil company. The other members are spot-on...you MUST use an API certified diesel engine oil. Your owners manual will specify the proper grade. For small Yanmar/Kubota engines it is usually CH4 or higher.

You will not cause engine damage with low hour use of gasoline engine oil - the major difference is the diesel soot-holding capability, which takes some time to accumulate. But - when soot holding capacity runs out, soot is very abrasive & will start polishing cylinder bores & wiping camshafts, so do it soon.

There is debate about low ash additive engine oils per API CI & CJ grades for on-highway diesels with the latest low emission technology (exhaust aftertreatment) by not having sufficient antiwear for small diesels with solid cam lifters, but I can not find any oil that is lower than CI/J.

Here is a link you might find useful for better grades of diesel engine oil to choose from. I don't know who makes Deere's oil for them. Diesel Oil

Hope this helps, the members of TBN are really knowledgable (I've only been here a month).

WOW! Very enlightening article! I see that Shell Rotella T6 synthetic didn't fair nearly as well as I would have expected. I use Shell Rotella T6 in both my F-350 PSD 6.0 and my wife's Toyota Avalon. The Blackstone reports that I've been getting on my 6.0 say that it's one of the cleanest diesel engines they've ever seen. I guess I'll stick with it with that track record.

Thanks for posting that article!

 

[DeereMann]

Well, I did 50 hr maintenance on my JD 1026R SCUT last weekend. Recommended maintenance is change engine oil & filter, change HST oil & filter + clean prescreen, grease, etc.

Anyway, up here in the northland, many of us use synthetics but I was going to wait to change later when weather gets cold - heck, engine only holds 3 qts anyway. So - I refilled with Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 and the engine got noticably quieter. I wonder if factory filled with a 10W-30? Engine oil chart says either is fine, 10W-30 up to 100F, 15W-40 over 100F (I won't go outside over 90F !)

Conversely, 15W-40 down to 0F (my experience says app. +20F), 10W-30 down to -10F, and we WILL blow snow below 0F up here. So, will change to Mobil Turbodiesel 5W-40 start of winter. Can't find Delvac 1 except at a Distributor in cases of 4 gal.

Another interesting observation - changed HST oil & refilled with JD Low Vis Hytran - and the transmission got noticably quieter. I suspect the factory fills with regular vis hytran (tractor assembled in Georgia)? I like the lower vis as flow rate is likely much higher (better cooling / heat rejection, better lubrication, but faster hi-temp oxidation). As I said, I won't go out over 90F anyway.

Member thoughts?

 

[DeereMann]

WOW! Very enlightening article! I see that Shell Rotella T6 synthetic didn't fair nearly as well as I would have expected. I use Shell Rotella T6 in both my F-350 PSD 6.0 and my wife's Toyota Avalon. The Blackstone reports that I've been getting on my 6.0 say that it's one of the cleanest diesel engines they've ever seen. I guess I'll stick with it with that track record.

Thanks for posting that article!

Don't confuse this article with engine cleanliness - the article ONLY address oil film strength, which correlates to engine wear protection - not to cleanliness. Most oils now days, depending on oil change intervals, provide sufficient wear protection - they have to to meet API specs. So unless you are going for max engine life (think long haul truck engines), it doesn't matter too much anymore.

More important is if you live in an extreme environment - very cold, very hot, very dirty. Then you want to consider best oils and / or filtration.

Hope this helps.

 

[3930dave]

Well, I did 50 hr maintenance on my JD 1026R SCUT last weekend. Recommended maintenance is change engine oil & filter, change HST oil & filter + clean prescreen, grease, etc.

Anyway, up here in the northland, many of us use synthetics but I was going to wait to change later when weather gets cold - heck, engine only holds 3 qts anyway. So - I refilled with Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 and the engine got noticably quieter. I wonder if factory filled with a 10W-30? Engine oil chart says either is fine, 10W-30 up to 100F, 15W-40 over 100F (I won't go outside over 90F !)

Conversely, 15W-40 down to 0F (my experience says app. +20F), 10W-30 down to -10F, and we WILL blow snow below 0F up here. So, will change to Mobil Turbodiesel 5W-40 start of winter. Can't find Delvac 1 except at a Distributor in cases of 4 gal.

Another interesting observation - changed HST oil & refilled with JD Low Vis Hytran - and the transmission got noticably quieter. I suspect the factory fills with regular vis hytran (tractor assembled in Georgia)? I like the lower vis as flow rate is likely much higher (better cooling / heat rejection, better lubrication, but faster hi-temp oxidation). As I said, I won't go out over 90F anyway.

Member thoughts?

Sounds like you are well set up for Winter, esp. once you rotate in the 5W40. I don't drive HST, but understand your point on the thermal performance of lower viscosity - as long as you are within factory viscosity ranges, no foul (on warranty), and may give you better wintertime initial start up performance.

Rgds, D.