How standard is a category 1 3ph?

[miloman]

Hi, we (in Holland) bought an (imported) JD 2305 (23 hp) that has a category 1 3ph. I bought a Geo tiller (italian) TL115, also category 1, but I cannot get it to fit nicely on the 2 lower arms of the hitch. Reason is that the TL115 distance for the arms is aprox. 50cm, while normally (on my forntier equip.) the distance is aprx. 70 cm. Because of the 50cm I cannot firmly secure the 2 lower arms, and thus the tiller can move pretty freely from left to right. It this normal, or is there another trick to attach the tiller to the lower arms? For the rest no issues: the top arm will fit, and the PTO turns the blades.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I don't know for sure about the 2305, but many sub-compact tractors don't implement a true cat-1 hitch. They call it "limited cat-1". Usually, the problem is that there isn't as much lift height, so implements like augers may not lift high enough to clear the ground. It sounds like the problem you're having is that the implement is too narrow, and you can't hook up your anti-sway mechanism properly. Is that right?

 

[miloman]

Thanks for your fast reply! That's exactly the problem. I can (just) mount it, moving the the lower arms inwards, but the anti-sway mechanism are turned in all the way, but still the tiller moves to much (I think). I very new to this tractor business (but love it ;-), so any help greatly appreciated!
I will contact our JD dealer tomorrow as well, to see if he has a solution.
I figured I need to put a bar (the one that you put on the lower bars) through the holes of the tiller, so I can attach the lower bars at the normal length, but some handles on the tiller are blocking the attachment of the lower bars. I could probably remove the handles, and use some spaces, in order to be able to mount it more 'solid'.

 

[RoyJackson]

Do the tiller's lower pins point toward the center of the implement, or away from the center? If they point toward the center, you may be able to reverse them (so they point outwards).
As far as 3PH standardization...many older implements follow no particular standard. There is an ANSI standard (forgot the number), but few manfacturers gave it much heed until the advent of quick hitches.
As you're in Europe, your implement will probably conform to some kind of ISO, EN or DIN specification...

 

[miloman]

Both on the left and right side are 2 plates with a pin through it. As there is a bushing between the plates, I assume the lower arms go between the plates. Also the pins are not long enough to be able to attach the arms on the outside, which would have solved my problems also (maybe have to remove the handles on the tiller as well).
Lesson learned at least is that there is no standard category 1 3ph..... Even the pin in the top bar was too wide..... Luckily the frontier pin fits.
Some pics here http://www.agro-parts.eu/index.php?search_group=1&search_word=tl115 (click on the picture)

 

[XSKIER]

Uhh...

Cat. 0 lower spacing is 20" (50 cm) and Cat. 1 spacing is 26" (70 cm) here in the states. It's been that way for over 50 years.

 

[Wagtail]

Just had a quick look on TractorData.com and the 2305 is listed as Cat 1 (limited). So, as XSKIER & josh have said, you've got a glorified Cat 0 that may be able to handle Cat 1 with some fiddling.

 

[KennyG]

Xskier seems to have it figured out. It sounds like you've got a Cat 0 tiller, which is surprising. I think I would start out buying or fabricating some pins that could go outside the hitch to widen it.

 

[bcp]

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks bcp, I just copied your pic for future reference!

Ta.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Xskier seems to have it figured out. It sounds like you've got a Cat 0 tiller, which is surprising. I think I would start out buying or fabricating some pins that could go outside the hitch to widen it.

If the tiller is Cat 0, the pins will be 5/8" instead of 3/4" (or metric equivalent), and that'll be a dead giveaway.

 

[LD1]

Do you have any pictures of how you are hooking it up??

Are you hooking inside the clevis?? Where that bushing is??? Are you putting the arms outside that bushing??

I may be way off here, but it looks like you can have cat 1 spacing if you put your arms outside the bushing, and cat 0 if you put the arms inside the bushing???

The 7th pic has the best shot
Rotary tiller 115 cm, light series, for Japanese compact tractors, Geo TL115 - Keletagro.hu

 

[Dutch445]

looking at the other tillers available on those sites, their heavy duty line has a much
wider spread, and the pins are on the outside of their frames.
since you can get the tiller on the tractor, you may really just need to
find a way to improve the sway links to allow the arms to be in that narrow
position and control the sway. look at your sway control turnbuckle, and maybe
you can drill another hole for the anchor in the lower link to allow your turnbuckles
to reach?
maybe somebody else has a simple solution, here's the parts pic of your 3ph and the
turnbuckles:

 

[joshuabardwell]

Could you rig up sway control chains, on the inside of the lift arms, going to the tractor's frame-mounted drawbar (assuming it has one) or some part of the frame?

 

[miloman]

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated!
Done some measurements on the top and lower pin’s: they match the category 1 sizes mentioned in bcp’s table (top is 19mm=3/4inch, bottom is 21mm, about 7/8 inch). So the pins indicate that the tiller is a cat 1, as is the 2305 (limited is no issue, since it can be lifted high enough).
Strange thing is that the spacing of the tiller is not category 1, although advertised as cat 1 and 2…..
Mounting the arms on the outside does not work: 1) the pins that come with the tiller are too short to do this, and 2) the strange green handles are in the way.
I tried to use the JD bar (you can see it lying on top of the tiller) that is used to lock the arms when not in use, but because of the handles I cannot move the arm over bar.
So alternative 1 is remove the 2 handles (don’t know what they are for), and use the JD bar, and some spacers that came with the tiller to install the arms on the outside (although my girlfriend doesn’t like me sawing some parts of the new tiller ;-),
Alternative 2 is like Dutch445 suggests to drill additional holes to attach the turnbuckles, so they can ‘fix’ the tiller.
Alternative 3 is to attach additional chains to ‘fix’ the tiller like joshuabardwell suggest (if I understand correctly).
At the moment alternative 1 seems the most obvious to me, also it increases the arm spacing, and thus stability.
Alternative 4 is to have the JD dealer do some welding and increase the arm distance. Only thing is that it’s a nice jobs to get the 100+ kilo tiller to the dealer….
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions. I will let you know how this is resolved.

 

[LD1]

Just for kicks, have you contacted the MFG, or who ever you bought it from about the discrepancy??

 

[miloman]

Yep, contacted them. They state these tillers fit kubota (like the BX 1860) without any problems.....

 

[joshuabardwell]

It seems like the issue is not necessarily the fit to the three-point, but the ability to stabilize the three-point after the implement is fitted. This may be the distinction the manufacturer is relying on.

 

[LD1]

I still would have thought that if they advertised it as cat I, then it would have 26" spacing and not the 20" of a cat 0

 

[bcp]

Yep, contacted them. They state these tillers fit kubota (like the BX 1860) without any problems.....

What you have is a cat 0 implement with cat 1 pins. They should have built the hitch with 3 tabs on each side instead of 2. The inner pair for cat 0 and the outer pair for cat 1.

The "handles" look like guards to keep legs and feet away from the blades. I would bend them up so the long rod and the draft arm clear.

Bruce