Grapple Which type of grapple is best suited for...

[IslandTractor]

Was it this one? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/280031-fixing-bent-grapple.html

I missed that thread. Did you notice the last post by Shannon? He has a very heavy duty grapple and the same thing happened to his. Just proves the point. Upper lids are for clamping and clamping only and light vs heavy has nothing to do with it. If you pull with an upper lid you risk bending it especially if not centered. If that had been a single rather than double lid the chances are the operator would not have mistakenly clamped a big log with just one tip anyway.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Warranties on grapples are kind of a pipe dream. With very few exceptions grapple damage is due to misuse which the manufacturer will recognize immediately and void the warranty.

Which, as has already been said, is what putting a grapple not rated for the tractor's HP is considered - misuse.. Regardless of what is said here, if I put a grapple rated to 35hp on my 50hp tractor and it breaks, no one will honor the warranty. I dare a manufacturer to come on and say otherwise.

I'm not sure the analogy is exactly right but consider the difference between a Bush Hog standard, medium duty and heavy duty six foot mower. You could reasonable use any of them on a 45hp tractor in non commercial service. If you want to pay three times as much for the heavy duty version go ahead but don't think it will cut grass any better than a properly used standard duty version.

Again, if you buy a light duty bush hog and they find anything other than knee high grass in it, you are out of luck. Also, there are stickers that say what the HP limit is or you will void the warranty. OEM's are not dumb. They will limit their exposures to warranty claims. A goodly portion of that is putting limits on the size of tractor, and type of use.

 

[IslandTractor]

Which, as has already been said, is what putting a grapple not rated for the tractor's HP is considered - misuse.. Regardless of what is said here, if I put a grapple rated to 35hp on my 50hp tractor and it breaks, no one will honor the warranty. I dare a manufacturer to come on and say otherwise.

Again, if you buy a light duty bush hog and they find anything other than knee high grass in it, you are out of luck. Also, there are stickers that say what the HP limit is or you will void the warranty. OEM's are not dumb. They will limit their exposures to warranty claims. A goodly portion of that is putting limits on the size of tractor, and type of use.

You seem to have missed my point. ANY damage to a grapple is seen as misuse. Doesn't matter if it happened with a Tonka toy or a monster tractor. For practical purposes, other than fitment issues or failed cylinders, ALL manufacturers will claim, rightly, that the damage was caused by misuse.

You are as likely to win a claim for a twisted grapple as you are to get GM or Ford to pay for a dented fender.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Now that I agree with - OEM's do not stand by their products.. They will show you how tuff it is, but deny your claim if you do the exact same thing and it breaks. Just as in another thread, an OEM shows how tuff a grapple is, then says 'dont do this'.

 

[TomSeller]

. Upper lids are for clamping and clamping only and light vs heavy has nothing to do with it. If you pull with an upper lid you risk bending it especially if not centered. .

Pulling with an upper lid? Yikes !! Asking for problems.

 

[IslandTractor]

Pulling with an upper lid? Yipes !! Asking for problems.

Pushing with the upper lid open is just about as bad. That happens inadvertently when trying to push on a tree trunk with the grapple open and having your eye concentrating on the lower tines. If the grapple is slightly in dumped orientation, the top lid will contact the tree before the bottom.

Bottom line, the lid is for clamping on a load before you move it. Nothing else.

 

[Illini22]

I let a good friend of mine use my tractor/grapple this weekend to remove trees, limbs, bushes and fencing. He is not easily impressed as he grew up in a construction atmosphere useing backhoes, skid steers man lifts (he is an iron worker by trade) etc. he could not believe how much work got done with th ck35 and grapple ( 48" light duty, titan ind.). And didn't tear his lawn up like the skid steer he had. He is ordering a grapple, by the way. He Bought a zero turn deere when he bought the property but now wishes he would of bought a cut.

 

[Xfaxman]

Pushing with the upper lid open is just about as bad. That happens inadvertently when trying to push on a tree trunk with the grapple open and having your eye concentrating on the lower tines. If the grapple is slightly in dumped orientation, the top lid will contact the tree before the bottom.

Bottom line, the lid is for clamping on a load before you move it. Nothing else.

While this is true for most grapples, I have the exception to the rule. The top tines are as strong as the bottom tines and extend below, to be used as scarifiers.

Since this thread is "Which type of grapple is best suited for...... all around grapple work?", I will show this
unusual design.


It is 44" wide, the tines are 1" thick.

 

[IslandTractor]

While this is true for most grapples, I have the exception to the rule. The top tines are as strong as the bottom tines and extend below, to be used as scarifiers.

Since this thread is "Which type of grapple is best suited for...... all around grapple work?", I will show this
unusual design.

It is 44" wide, the tines are 1" thick.

I haven't seen one of those but believe you. Looks like it is mounted on a Toolcat which is about the same as a midsized CUT with regard to lift/breakout power as I recall (something between ?1500-2000lbs???).

Given the construction of that grapple I'd not worry about the upper lid.

Here is a photo of me abusing my light duty grapple. Unintentional. I thought I was picking up a small rock that was interfering with mowing. Only six inches was sticking out of the soil. When I stuck the bottom tines under it I clamped with the upper lid/tines and then lifted. It is granite and weighs something over a ton. Couldn't lift it higher than you see and the tractor rear was so light I could only move the rock about twenty feet. Bent the top lid tines (splayed them actually) but that was fixed with heat and bigger gussets.

 

[TomSeller]

While this is true for most grapples, I have the exception to the rule. The top tines are as strong as the bottom tines and extend below, to be used as scarifiers.

Since this thread is "Which type of grapple is best suited for...... all around grapple work?", I will show this

Nice looking grapple, who makes that bad boy?

 

[Xfaxman]

Nice looking grapple, who makes that bad boy?

Sidney Manufacturing Company, The Gorilla Grapple: 6 Tine Gorilla Grapple - attachments for skid steer loaders, small compact construction equipment - Sidney Manufacturing Co. LLC

 

[Midniteoyl]

Seems to me that the ones I see damaged are actually light duty ones.. Even if not sold that way.

 

[IslandTractor]

Just a few counterpoints to consider on the Gorilla grapple:

1) clearly designed and marketed for commercial skid steer use. From brochure it appears to be intended for breaking up concrete pavement. Not an all purpose design.

2) bottom tines are a foot or more apart so lots of stuff will fall out.

3) weighs 900lbs. I suspect my little CK20 with 1070 lbs lift and a 270lb grapple could lift more than any sub40hp CUT or toolcat mounting this beast.

4) $$$$$$3875 plus shipping.

 

[murphy1244]

Seems to me that the ones I see damaged are actually light duty ones.. Even if not sold that way.

I have not seen too many at all damaged, you have any links?

 

[Xfaxman]

Just a few counterpoints to consider on the Gorilla grapple:

1) clearly designed and marketed for commercial skid steer use. From brochure it appears to be intended for breaking up concrete pavement. Not an all purpose design. Right, it is hard to pick up big chunks of concrete because if you squeeze too much it will break it into little chunks!

Notice the fresh break where I squeezed too hard earlier.


2) bottom tines are a foot or more apart so lots of stuff will fall out. Not a problem with cedar trees.

3) weighs 900lbs. I suspect my little CK20 with 1070 lbs lift and a 270lb grapple could lift more than any sub40hp CUT or toolcat mounting this beast.

I don't think it would out lift My Toolcat 5610 series F. I put the crane scale on the empty SSQA plate and measured 3000 lbs of lift.


4) $$$$$$3875 plus shipping. I bought a used one.

Our place was overgrown with cedar trees so I started cutting with a tree shear and making burn piles with this clamshell style on the V518.


To pick up a tree, you had to drive around parallel to the trunk.


After I got the V417, to save time I wanted a grapple that would penetrate the tree from any angle.
The Gorilla Grapple is what I got.


Works good on dead trees also.

 

[TomSeller]

Xfaxman, you sure have some nice grapples, I am going to keep them on my wish list. They are over the head of most posters on this forum that have small tractors, but no less they can move some serious debris.

There are basically two discussion themes when it comes to grapples and a both are correct. Common sense sized grapples for smaller CUTs and SCUTs. Man sized grapples for those with larger machines with over ~2000 lbs of lift. Maybe a third category for those that simply need to move a lot of light debris.

 

[IslandTractor]

I like Xfaxman's photos but as Tom points out, most of us are not using Versahandlers or similar size equipment. I exaggerated a bit with the CK20 vs Toolcat comment but not by that much. Lift at the pivot point/attachment plate at ground level is higher than they typically compared rated max lift at full height. I know a CK20 will lift 1070lbs to full height so maybe 1400-1500lbs on a scale like Xfaxman used at close to ground level. Subtract the weight of the light duty EA grapple at ?250lbs and you get maybe 1200lbs or so of net lift at ground level. Not bad. Take Xfaxman's Toolcat with 3000 at ground level and subtract 900 for the grapple and you get a net lift capacity of 2100. My DK40 has 2700lbs of lift to full height so probably a bit more than his Toolcat at ground level. Bottom line is that the DK, if roughly equivalent to his Toolcat, would lift 900-250 or 650lbs more load simply because of the lower grapple weight. Not knocking the Gorilla just pointing out that there are downsides to be considered and therefore you better have a real good reason to need that sort of build quality. Looks like Xfaxman does but most of us need a general duty grapple so the smaller ones make more sense.

 

[TSO]

XFaxman... where does one find a scale like that? I'd like to give it a try, see what kind of lift mine actually has! I'm rated 2638# (pins) at full lift, so I'd love to see what I could do at ground level. I'm rated at 4354# breakout force (per the manufacturer) .. I wonder if that would count at ground level. I keep hearing different schools of thought on that. Some say the breakout is your curl force. Some say it's your "lift" force at ground level. Some say it's a combined number.

blah blah blah... anyhow, it would be neat to try that scale !

I like your grapple too... Looks very HD built. probably overkill for me, especially since you probably run much higher hyrdaulic PSI than I do in that Toolcat... I doubt my tractor could make it break concrete like that.

 

[TomSeller]

... I doubt my tractor could make it break concrete like that.

Note there is no rebar in that concrete. Concrete has little tensile strength on the fracturing side. Still, impressive grapples though.

 

[Xfaxman]

Xfaxman, you sure have some nice grapples, I am going to keep them on my wish list. They are over the head of most posters on this forum that have small tractors, but no less they can move some serious debris.

There are basically two discussion themes when it comes to grapples and a both are correct. Common sense sized grapples for smaller CUTs and SCUTs. Man sized grapples for those with larger machines with over ~2000 lbs of lift. Maybe a third category for those that simply need to move a lot of light debris.

Thanks, there are some other lighter ones available now that don't have bracing between the tines.

I like Xfaxman's photos but as Tom points out, most of us are not using Versahandlers or similar size equipment. I exaggerated a bit with the CK20 vs Toolcat comment but not by that much. Lift at the pivot point/attachment plate at ground level is higher than they typically compared rated max lift at full height. I know a CK20 will lift 1070lbs to full height so maybe 1400-1500lbs on a scale like Xfaxman used at close to ground level. Subtract the weight of the light duty EA grapple at ?250lbs and you get maybe 1200lbs or so of net lift at ground level. Not bad. Take Xfaxman's Toolcat with 3000 at ground level and subtract 900 for the grapple and you get a net lift capacity of 2100. My DK40 has 2700lbs of lift to full height so probably a bit more than his Toolcat at ground level. Bottom line is that the DK, if roughly equivalent to his Toolcat, would lift 900-250 or 650lbs more load simply because of the lower grapple weight. Not knocking the Gorilla just pointing out that there are downsides to be considered and therefore you better have a real good reason to need that sort of build quality. Looks like Xfaxman does but most of us need a general duty grapple so the smaller ones make more sense.

The scale was at ground level, the lift arm was about 4' high. I need to park it on my trailer, to get the scale under the QA plate, and see how much it changes from all the way down, to fully up.

XFaxman... where does one find a scale like that? I'd like to give it a try, see what kind of lift mine actually has! I'm rated 2638# (pins) at full lift, so I'd love to see what I could do at ground level. I'm rated at 4354# breakout force (per the manufacturer) .. I wonder if that would count at ground level. I keep hearing different schools of thought on that. Some say the breakout is your curl force. Some say it's your "lift" force at ground level. Some say it's a combined number.

blah blah blah... anyhow, it would be neat to try that scale !

I like your grapple too... Looks very HD built. probably overkill for me, especially since you probably run much higher hyrdaulic PSI than I do in that Toolcat... I doubt my tractor could make it break concrete like that.

Found the DigiWeigh DWP-5000C2X Crane Scale on eBay in March for $310, looks like the price has gone up.

The hyrdaulic PSI on the Versahandler is 3626, the Toolcat is 3000. From the Gorilla Grapple Website:

The 3000 lb. output of your skid steer translates to over 37,000 lbs. of mechanical pressure at the end of the jaws.

So 2500 PSI from a tractor would still break concrete.

More scale pictures here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/bobcat-construction-equipment/275747-v417-max-lift.html