Antifreeze in the distributor?

[2Njohn]

My 2n is a working tractor. It at times in spite of all the care I take of it throws me a beanball from time to time. Yesterday I was mowing for an hour and it sputtered lost power and died on me. I noticed I could smell coolant prior to that happening.

I dismissed the coolant smell in search of the ignition failure and ruled out fuel supply first. After the time taken to do that I was able to get her started and limp to the garage at idle, she would not idle up without sputtering and dying. Fearing a week or bad battery I trickle charged it overnight. My 2n is 6 volt.

Fuel supply checked out as being normal by the way. Got up this morning and cranked and cranked it farted a few times but would not fire.

Got home tonight thinking the points were fried (I bought them hastily at TSC and replaced them last fall they have maybe 7 hours on them)

Pulled the distributor tonight checked point gap it was okay, filed them a touch and reset gap, then verified timing and advanced it a hair. Cleaned all the parts mating surfaces and reinstalled.

Barely touched the starter button and she fired up right away. After the warm up I went to mowing spent an hour doing that started smelling coolant again and gradually began to hear the engine changing tones dropping rpm and laboring then the sputtering began again.

Kicked the pto off and got back to the house, I let it idle for 5 minutes to cool down and drank a beer. Shut it down and I can see I have a coolant leak at the radiator just above the center pivot engine side that the fan is slinging coolant onto the dizzy.

When I did the new points I put a new cork gasket between the coil, cap, and dizzy.

As the tie says even though it is a fairly minimal leak, can this coolant be finding its way inside my dizzy and causing this?

Obviously I need to pull the radiator and have it repaired, I understand that. I mow rain or shine (have yet to mow in rain as its been dry in Kansas) do these distributors need extra sealant on the cork to keep them dry?

I hope my issue is damp points, the tractor otherwise is strong and will most likely outlast me.

 

[Soundguy]

if it's loss of sparks.. and t's not the cheap bargain barrel tisco points ( junk junk junk ) you got from tsc. it's a good bet you are getting KV leaking from cap to ground at exterior of dizzy where the 4 wires enter.

next time it dies.. tug choke. if it helps.. don't discount a fuel stoppage, tank vacume..e tc.

 

[2Njohn]

I did try pulling the choke to keep it going and it didnt help. Honestly at first I thought maybe the float got stuck. I tapped on the carb with a crescent and shut the fuel off drained the sediment bowl and drained the carb. Left the plug out of the carb and turned the fuel back on let it run out then closed it back up.

Going to buy new points if napa has them in stock. I did notice the tsc points are poor quality fresh out of the box.

if it's loss of sparks.. and t's not the cheap bargain barrel tisco points ( junk junk junk ) you got from tsc. it's a good bet you are getting KV leaking from cap to ground at exterior of dizzy where the 4 wires enter.

next time it dies.. tug choke. if it helps.. don't discount a fuel stoppage, tank vacume..e tc.

 

[Soundguy]

could be spark. at death.. check spark. if orange.. check key switch and resistor connections.

swapping to premium points sure won't hurt... tisco points are junk..

the fact choke didn't help much may indicate sparks. normally if it's starving for fuel.. a lil choke helps.. unless it's a complete fuel stoppage.


not getting alotta water in it are you?

 

[2Njohn]

No I made sure the cork was seated good before I put the coil on. My spark plug wires look **** near oem and #2 has been rubbed nearly to the core by the gen belt. I just wrapped it with elec tape and tied it up out of the way.

The connections at the resistor are in sad shape and the ammeter always shows a discharge. The generator is fried I never have replaced it. The armature is toasted. From the looks of it that has been the case for a long time.

It was on my radar to upgrade connections and wiring but while it was running it got put on the back burner. I got as far as all new battery cables at least and a new starter switch.

I will get the points. Freshen all the connectors behind the dash and for fun do a compression test on all 4 holes and report back.

 

[Soundguy]

water i meant was in the sediment bowl.

bad connections at the ressitor can cause heat, and extra resistance and thus weak sparks.

a jumper wire will help you diagnose that.

 

[2Njohn]

I moved for less than half an hour and hit some thick grass which lugged the engine hard and as expected the tractor immediatly began losing power. I headed for the garage limped it inside and pulled all plugs and cranked it with key on and have nice hot blue spark on all 4 cylinders. I jumpered from the resistor thingy with the coil wire to the coil with my jumper wire aligator clip harness. It didn't improve on the spark it was still hot and blue, i jumped from the starter cable with igniton off and to the coil and got the same result nice hot blue spark.

All 4 plugs are clean burning, light with a tint of reddish color to them, they are autolite 437. They look like they need to be replaced the electrode is worn, I will gap them before putting them back in.


No water in the separator bowl, again the choke did not help. Whatever is happening only happens when I lug the heck out of the engine.

I could not hook my compression tester up the adapter i have on it for the smaller plugs is too tall to fit between the gas tank and head. I will have to revisit that when i have the top off.

I think it may be time to get my dad up here and see what i am not seeing. I did not get the points bought today, but i am growing increasingly suspicious of those tisco points.

thanks for the input so far, i won't give up yet.

water i meant was in the sediment bowl.

bad connections at the ressitor can cause heat, and extra resistance and thus weak sparks.

a jumper wire will help you diagnose that.

 

[2458n]

The anti-freeze could be grounding The distributor , or thru one of the sparkplug wires. Try some WD-40 and see if it helps displace water. A spark tracking to ground does not always show up.

 

[Soundguy]

if the spark is real blue... that's a good sign.

sure won't hurt to clean up the dizzy with wd40 and look for carbon tracks though.

choke not helping.. and no water.

weird one...

loosing any fluid out of the rad? bottom and top hoses feel warm?

 

[2Njohn]

Compression test was good.
#1 95
#2 100
#3 85
#4 100

Those figures are with the holes dry. I was pleased with those results.

Put the napa points in set them and timed on the bench. That went very good, the TSC points I had in previously I never could get them set just right. (Dont ask...). Even the napa condensor was larger had a better wire and fit without modification unlike the TSC one.

Bought new solid copper core plug wires and installed them. I found out the plug wires I had on currently were carbon core. Not ideal for this tractor.

Put back together with the hood still off cranked and nothing, no fire. Pulled a plug and checked for spark, none. Ran a jumper wire to coil still nothing. Went to the bench to grab my multimeter and discovered the solution to my no fire, saw the rotor bug setting on the bench and not in the distributor. That made me laugh though.

Now I have to address a radiator leak. It is original and the drain plug is leaking. The drain is not threaded no idea what to do there other than take it to a radiator shop.

Hope to get that fixed and try her out and see if she is cured.

if the spark is real blue... that's a good sign.

sure won't hurt to clean up the dizzy with wd40 and look for carbon tracks though.

choke not helping.. and no water.

weird one...

loosing any fluid out of the rad? bottom and top hoses feel warm?

 

[brendakr2]

"saw the rotor bug setting on the bench and not in the distributor"

Haha - been there, done that!

 

[Soundguy]

i know some people will simply solder up bad drain bungs. If I was faced with not being able to repair it otherwise... I'd cetraintly do it.

on the not being able to set the tsc points. it sure was't your fault. I've always had to file and elongate holes in tsc / tisco points to fit them.. that's why I don't use them anymore. napa usually.

glad to hear ya got it going.

the 85 hole is a tad below spec. but if it wasn't warmed.. it may actually be in spec .. in any case. one hole a hair out od spec won't kill ya.

I comp tested a buddies 8n and it was darn near 78-85 across the board.

started and puleld a 5' mower fine.

 

[2Njohn]

I bead blasted the the radiator and fuel tank today. Found a hairline crack in the fuel tank about midway up the front. That is why I have never been able to fill it all the way up. My dad is going to braze or solder it I wanted to JB weld it he wouldn't hear of it.

The radiator is sad story after blasting it the bottom clearly has been the victim of blunt force trauma and copious amounts of jb weld. I hope the radiator shop can save it and yes I would have them just braze the drain shut.

The way my tractor was running last year it could barely handle my 4 foot hog. I hope to get her up to snuff with the improvements and repairs I have made so far. I appreciate this board to I have learned a lot from reading through posts here.

John

i know some people will simply solder up bad drain bungs. If I was faced with not being able to repair it otherwise... I'd cetraintly do it.

on the not being able to set the tsc points. it sure was't your fault. I've always had to file and elongate holes in tsc / tisco points to fit them.. that's why I don't use them anymore. napa usually.

glad to hear ya got it going.

the 85 hole is a tad below spec. but if it wasn't warmed.. it may actually be in spec .. in any case. one hole a hair out od spec won't kill ya.

I comp tested a buddies 8n and it was darn near 78-85 across the board.
started and puleld a 5' mower fine.

 

[2Njohn]

Bottom of radiator.

 

[Soundguy]

good luck on that tank.

many shops won't go to the trouble it takes to burn the jb weld off to repair..

 

[2Njohn]

I don't blame them. Fortunately the caterpillar dealer I work for has its own radiator shop at another branch and the radiator tech is friend of mine we went to high school together. If it can be saved he is the one that can do it, also if it can't he won't bs me about it.

good luck on that tank.

many shops won't go to the trouble it takes to burn the jb weld off to repair..

 

[Soundguy]

sounds like a good chance then!

 

[the old grind]

The connections at the resistor are in sad shape and the ammeter always shows a discharge. The generator is fried I never have replaced it. The armature is toasted. From the looks of it that has been the case for a long time.

I will ... do a compression test on all 4 holes and report back.

Running on battery alone can challenge spark strength. (under compression matters, too) While it's unlikely that there is current leakage thru the toasted gen, you'd get a few more volts to the coil if it was charging properly, and it's under the heaviest loads where it'd make that difference.

Comp tests are as much about uniformity as reaching spec pressure, and if not exactly 'within 10% of each other' IMO you're pretty OK there.

Dizzy caps always seem to be the biggest 'foolers' & the hardest to test, esp under load. Water alone won't do it, but you'd want to clean AF traces from all things electrical. If your thermostat won't let 'er come up to temp you'd run rich & waste fuel, and choking would make the least difference when running. "Got gauge?" (btw: "you know you're old when" ... you apologize for repeating yourself on several pages of a thread. :confused3

 

[2Njohn]

My dad came up yesterday and brazed the radiator and brazed a crack in my fuel tank. All leaks are fixed now thankfully. I also did an engine oil and filter change it was very nasty oil...

I put a new 160 t stat in and a new upper hose as well as a bunch of new hardware and fixed Jerry rigs, or quick field repairs here and there that I uncovered along the way.

Ran for an hour last night and so far so good. I will have to mow tonight and that will take a couple hours.

I do believe there is merit to the generator not charging that could cause a weaker spark. Since my armature is toast I have been looking for a rebuildable one to buy.

 

[2Njohn]

No temp gauge. I have been thinking about buying one, where is there a hole in the block for the sender? Drain on the left side?