24 volt system not charging

[JasG]

Would like some information on this system.

With this it doesn't seem to use the frame as part of the system. Both the positive and negatives from the batteries go to the starter. The alternator is different that what I am used to.

Any information would be helpful as to how to trouble shoot this as to why it's not charging.

 

[jd110]

What model are you working on? 3010, 3020, 4010, 4020? You mention an alternator. These models originally had a generator. Could you post pictures of the generator/alternator, starter and battery cable routing? This would help identify exactly which system you have.

 

[JasG]

I can post some pictures tomorrow.

It's a 500A, which is similar to a 3020.

Under Deere parts it only lists an Alternator and that to me is what it looks like. I know the older systems were generators, but I don't think this is.
John Deere - Parts Catalog

 

[Tx Jim]

From viewing parts catalog it should have a Motorola alt. Possible faulty regulator or diode causing non-charging. Have you checked for drain as 24 V system have a history of voltage drain. Brush dust is starter is the #1 cause of drain.

 

[JasG]

From viewing parts catalog it should have a Motorola alt. Possible faulty regulator or diode causing non-charging. Have you checked for drain as 24 V system have a history of voltage drain. Brush dust is starter is the #1 cause of drain.

Right now I don't think it's putting out anything, but am not sure. We have noticed over the last couple of years when it's very cold out it hasn't been charging, but seemed fine in the summer. Now it seems it is putting out zero.

These are the pictures.

 

[Tx Jim]

Looks very similar to a Motorola alt. What indicates it's not charging?? Relatively simple to find out if it's charging by testing with a volt/ohm meter.

 

[JasG]

Looks very similar to a Motorola alt. What indicates it's not charging?? Relatively simple to find out if it's charging by testing with a volt/ohm meter.

Batteries will only start it so many times, also when reading across the batteries the voltage is the same if the machine is running or not. When I believe it is working the voltage across both batteries is about 26 volts, when not about 24.8. I'm just not sure which leads are which.

 

[Willl]

Looking at those pics, I would suggest you hire somebody to do some wiring maintenance.

It would fix your current problem and help prevent future ones.

 

[Tx Jim]

Very good point Willl. I only looked at photo with alternator in it. But with those loose wires at the starter solenoid I don't see how starter will engage.

 

[Soundguy]

and 26v ain't really much for charging on a 24v system i'd want 28 at a minimum.. up to 30.2 maximum.. with a happy spot of 28.8

 

[JasG]

Looking at those pics, I would suggest you hire somebody to do some wiring maintenance.

It would fix your current problem and help prevent future ones.

Very good point Willl. I only looked at photo with alternator in it. But with those loose wires at the starter solenoid I don't see how starter will engage.

I doubt that 1 wire that is not connected is the issue, doesn't ever have any voltage on it. I owned the machine for 8 years, and going by the guy I bought it from it was like that when he bought it, and he owned it for 20 years. None of the wires have been touched since I bought it. Starter etc worked fine and still does all but the fuel gauges work. The problem is a lack of information on this set up. The local Deere dealer hasn't been much help, they had a fire a while ago and lost all of their tech manuals. The guys that work there are not familiar with the 24 volt set up either. I wouldn't mind having them do the work, but I'm not going to pay people to fumble around till they get it.

If I had a proper diagram I could redo this myself, but each one I have found is different than this set up. The tech manual I bought only covers 12 volt set-ups.

Actually the Deere dealer service manager a couple of years ago said what they would probably have to do was change the thing over to 12 volts. I think that was because they hadn't worked on a 24 volt in years. I'd rather not change it if I don't have to.

 

[jd110]

I'm not familiar with the 24 volt industrial system with alternator, but... Looking at the photos, the loose brown wire at the starter definitely needed to be connected on the 3020. It should be connected to a second circuit breaker the same as the one with the blue wire. Then the other terminal of the second breaker got connected to the small terminal on the solenoid closest to the engine block. That sam terminal should have a second wire that connects to the large post on the back of the starter where the other battery cable connects.

 

[jd110]

The circuit breakers at the starter were not original equipment. They were an add on kit that was provided when wiring harness was replaced. Without the breakers, there was no protection in case wiring or starter shorted out. Many of the original 24 volt systems burnt up the wiring until the circuit breaker kits were installed. Without that brown wire connected, the charging system can't work properly, half the lights shouldn't work, and the fuel gauge won't work. I am attaching a picture of the part catalog schematic of the wiring. It gives a general idea of the wiring layout.

 

[jd110]

Here is another picture of starter wiring on 3020.

 

[JasG]

View attachment 315170The circuit breakers at the starter were not original equipment. They were an add on kit that was provided when wiring harness was replaced. Without the breakers, there was no protection in case wiring or starter shorted out. Many of the original 24 volt systems burnt up the wiring until the circuit breaker kits were installed. Without that brown wire connected, the charging system can't work properly, half the lights shouldn't work, and the fuel gauge won't work. I am attaching a picture of the part catalog schematic of the wiring. It gives a general idea of the wiring layout.

You wouldn't happen to have the labels to the one drawing you posted? I may be able to get it with what you gave already.

For some reason the other circuit breaker is on the other side of the tractor. There is a line that goes from that breaker to the other side of the starter. I'll have to check but I wonder if the brown wire broke and someone just ran a another wire.

Thank you.

 

[Tx Jim]

Maybe this is what you're looking for.

 

[jd110]

You wouldn't happen to have the labels to the one drawing you posted? I may be able to get it with what you gave already.

For some reason the other circuit breaker is on the other side of the tractor. There is a line that goes from that breaker to the other side of the starter. I'll have to check but I wonder if the brown wire broke and someone just ran a another wire.

Thank you.

1 ) AR27944 LAMP 1
2 ) AT14699 INDICATOR LAMP 1
3) R34262 GAUGE 1
4) ........ WIRE 1 305 MM (12") (MAKE FROM AR84006 WIRE REPAIR KIT)
5) AR48643 ELECTRICAL LIGHTER 1 (SUB FOR AR34556)
6) AR20235 SWITCH 1
7) R39550 RESISTOR 1
8) AR33479 LAMP 1
9) A3411R GROMMET 1 (DASH LAMP LEAD TO DASH REINFORCEMENT)
10) F2084R CLIP 1 (DASH LAMP LEAD TO DASH)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
11) AR44953 WIRING HARNESS 1 (SUB FOR R39641)
R27539 CLAMP 1
21H1029 SCREW 1 5/16" X 3/4", (INSTRUMENT HARNESS CLAMP TO CONTROL SUPPORT)
12H291 LOCK WASHER 1 5/16", (INSTRUMENT HARNESS CLAMP TO CONTROL SUPPORT SCREW)
14H785 NUT 1 5/16", (INSTRUMENT HARNESS CLAMP TO CONTROL SUPPORT SCREW)
T13814 CLAMP 1 (INSTRUMENT HARNESS TO L.H. REAR DASH TO CONTROL SUPPORT SCREW)
B1828R BUSHING 1 (INSTRUMENT HARNESS TO L.H. REAR DASH TO CONTROL SUPPORT SCREW)
24H1302 WASHER 1 13/32" X 11/16" X 0.035"
12) AT85174 SWITCH 1 (SUB FOR AR27977) (OIL INDICATOR)
13) ........ WIRING HARNESS 1 ( R39650 NO LONGER AVAILABLE)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
14) R11276 HORN 1 (LOW NOTE, 12-VOLT)
15) R64700 HIGH NOTE HORN 1 (SUB FOR R11277) (HIGH NOTE, 12-VOLT)
16) AR47655 KIT 1 (SUB FOR AR40455) (CONTAINS AR47676, CIRCUIT BREAKER KIT, AR47685 WIRING HARNESS, AR47686 WIRING HARNESS, AR47690 ENGINE WIRING HARNESS, R33823 WIRING HARNESS, R34869 WIRING HARNESS AND R45640 WIRING HARNESS COVER)
R27457 TIE BAND 5 (ENGINE HARNESS TO STEERING OIL PIPES)
R32320 CLIP 2 (ENGINE HARNESS TO CONTROL SUPPORT)
R32320 CLIP 1 (ENGINE HARNESS TO REGULATOR MOUNTING BRACKET)
17) AR27730 SENDER 1
18) AR40419 ALTERNATOR 1 (WITH REGULATOR, LESS PULLEY) (24-VOLT) (MOTOROLA)
19) AR39848 HOUR METER 1
20) ........ WIRE 1 457 MM (18") (MAKE FROM AR84006 WIRE REPAIR KIT)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
21) ........ WIRE 1 152 MM (6") (MAKE FROM AR84006 WIRE REPAIR KIT)
22) AR40134 STARTER MOTOR 1 (24-VOLT) (DELCO-REMY NO. 1113190)
23) R30964 COVER 1
24) AR28950 BATTERY CABLE 1 (NEGATIVE L.H.) (COLLAR SHIFT)
R33659 BATTERY CABLE 1 (NEGATIVE L.H.) (POWER SHIFT)
R35668 CLAMP 1
R36235 GROMMET 1 (BATTERY CABLE TO SUPPORT)
R34558 CLAMP 1 (CABLE TO TRANSMISSION CASE COVER)
19H2284 CAP SCREW 1 3/8" X 7/8", (CABLE CLAMP TO BATTERY BOX)
12H304 LOCK WASHER 1 3/8", (CABLE CLAMP TO BATTERY BOX)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
R35668 CLAMP 1 (CABLE TO CLUTCH HOUSING)
19H1648 CAP SCREW 1 3/8" X 3/4", (CABLE CLAMP TO CLUTCH HOUSING)
12H304 LOCK WASHER 1 3/8", (CABLE CLAMP TO CLUTCH HOUSING)
R44302 TIE BAND 1 (SUB FOR R1646R)
25) AR40408 BATTERY CABLE 1 (POSITIVE R.H.)
H75541 CLAMP 1 (CABLE TO TRANSMISSION CASE COVER) (SUB FOR R34557)
19H2284 CAP SCREW 1 3/8" X 7/8"
12H304 LOCK WASHER 1 3/8"
B1828R BUSHING 2 (CABLE CLAMP TO TRANSMISSION CASE COVER)
24H1302 WASHER 2 13/32" X 11/16" X 0.035"
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
12H302 LOCK WASHER 2 1/4", 3/8" (BATTERY CABLE CLAMP TO TRANSMISSION CASE)
R34558 CLAMP 1
19H1726 CAP SCREW 2 3/8" X 2-1/4"
12H304 LOCK WASHER 2 3/8"
26) AR40409 BATTERY CABLE 1
27) R39713 WIRING LEAD 1
24M7096 WASHER 2 0.413" X 0.709" X 0.063", (BATTERY GROUND STRAP TO TRANSMISSION CASE COVER SCREW)
28) R34869 WIRING HARNESS 1 (STARTER SAFETY SWITCH TO ENGINE HARNESS) (POWER SHIFT)
R33823 WIRING HARNESS 1 (STARTER SAFETY SWITCH TO ENGINE HARNESS) (COLLAR SHIFT)
R44302 TIE BAND 2 (START-SAFETY HARNESS TO BATTERY CABLE)
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
R27457 TIE BAND 2 (START-SAFETY HARNESS TO BATTERY CABLE)
29) R36265 SWITCH AR (1 USED COLLAR SHIFT) (2 USED POWER SHIFT)
30) R39554 SWITCH 1
31) R39551 SWITCH 1
32) AR39505 ROTARY SWITCH 1
33) AR47685 WIRING HARNESS 1 (SUB FOR R39555 AND AR44952) (CONTROL SUPPORT COVER TO INSTRUMENT HARNESS)
B2571R CLIP 1 (HARNESS TO CONTROL SUPPORT COVER)
34) AR28403 CIRCUIT BREAKER

 

[JasG]

Thanks for the list and other help, makes my job a lot easier.

Up next the swing motor/cylinder. I was using it this weekend and oil is now coming out the top pretty badly. I've done cylinders and valves before on this and other machines, but never one of these. I haven't looked yet to see what is involved. I do remember that is covered in the tech book I have. According to Deere.com the seals and other parts can still be purchased.

Something to keep me busy in the next few weeks.