when only the finest welding will do...

[daugen]

How to build a Nuclear Submarine - BBC2 Documentary - YouTube

this is an hour long BBC documentary on the UK's nuclear sub plant,
and at minute 22 there is an interesting seven or eight minutes on welding,
with some pics of welds. I enjoyed the whole thing but between minute 22 and I think 29
is where the relevant welding parts are.

I thought the young lady's early comment about "argon: two lungfuls of that and you're gone"
was interesting. When I graduate to argon use, I'll sure keep that in mind.
Might have a lot to do with welding in confined spaces too and whether the air handlers even worked yet.

All welds are xrayed. what they do with a "defect" there would have been interesting to hear about.

No different I suppose than welding on a plane or other super critical application. Like a high pressure LNG pipeline.
Not quite sure my Gravely's mower deck would qualify...

 

[k0ua]

Drew, not that argon is poisonous to the human body, it is just the lack of oxygen will make you pass out, and die..

 

[Shield Arc]

In the 1970s I worked in a tank shop building nuclear waste tanks. The inside of these tanks were 10-GA stainless steel. The safety department got on a kick when we went home for the night after Tig welding inside these tanks, we had to promise we would go home and place our feet in chair while laying flat of our backs for so many hours a night. This was their idea to get the argon to drain out of our lungs! :laughing:

 

[daugen]

In the 1970s I worked in a tank shop building nuclear waste tanks. The inside of these tanks were 10-GA stainless steel. The safety department got on a kick when we went home for the night after Tig welding inside these tanks, we had to promise we would go home and place our feet in chair while laying flat of our backs for so many hours a night. This was their idea to get the argon to drain out of our lungs! :laughing:

Uh, I hope those tanks didn't go to Washington and leak... :confused3: oh dear
well, I'm sure yours didn't....actually yours probably were sent there to clean up the existing mess.

Jim, sounds like being in an enclosed place when a fire extinguishing system goes off. Never a good idea.

 

[Shield Arc]

We were contracted to this outfit. The tanks we built were to haul contaminated tools and clothing from the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Eastern Washington to Barnwell South Carolina burial site.
Chem-Nuclear Systems

 

[daugen]

The Truth About Barnwell

So Barnwell is where the feds are trucking some of the mess from Hanford, but apparently only low level material. Less than ten percent left after a hundred years.
I suppose that is comforting to the neighbors. Besides, if Shield Arc welded those tanks, well, you know they are just fine...

 

[k0ua]

Uh, I hope those tanks didn't go to Washington and leak... :confused3: oh dear
well, I'm sure yours didn't....actually yours probably were sent there to clean up the existing mess.

Jim, sounds like being in an enclosed place when a fire extinguishing system goes off. Never a good idea.

Been there, done that, and did not like the feeling much... The mirage shimmer when looking at the lights was interesting.. We got outside and got some air..felt better after a while.

 

[Shield Arc]

God it was so long ago now, and I've built so much stuff since then. We made several different types. Most were lead lined. Some the walls of the tanks were filled with concrete. They all had 10-GA stainless steel inside, but with different thickness of laminated 3/8-inch thick lead in the walls. Most were 7-inches thick. Then we laminated 3/4-inch thick high carbon steel sheets for the outside. These tanks were so heavy it took special low boy trailers made out of T1 to carry these tanks.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Drew, not that argon is poisonous to the human body, it is just the lack of oxygen will make you pass out, and die..

And it's heavier than air, so it doesn't drain out unless you stand on your head.

 

[TCJatko]

It's interesting that we should be talking about welding on submarines; it's been 50 years since the USS Thresher went to the bottom taking 130 + men with it. I think the cause was defective welds in piping.

 

[Shield Arc]

I live in a county with a Navy submarine base, and Navy shipyard. Some of the best weldors on the planet are right here. Years ago I had to take a stainless steel pipe Tig welding class. The teacher was what they call a P1 weldor in the shipyard. I seem to remember that stood for high pressure weldor. He was telling me the Thresher accident turned the Navy welding program on it's ear!

 

[Arc weld]

Argon is heavier than air and it's not uncommon for welders in confined spaces using it to stand on their heads to let it drain out. Someone told about it a long time ago. I think it was 1/2 an hour upside down after 4 hours of welding or something like that.

 

[ttriff]

When I was a young pup there was an article in the paper featuring a welder retiring from the spacecraft construction program at Martin Marietta. He was being honored for having run 29 miles of flawless TIG welds.....

 

[jwmorris]

As to the question of what do you do when you find an inclusion after x-ray testing, you cut it out and try again or toss the part.

It depends on how much time you have in the part or how much its worth. You get to the end of a project like this little 30 million BTU burner there is just too much time involved to scrap the entire part.

 

[k0ua]

Argon is heavier than air and it's not uncommon for welders in confined spaces using it to stand on their heads to let it drain out. Someone told about it a long time ago. I think it was 1/2 an hour upside down after 4 hours of welding or something like that.

OK.. well here we go..In my opinion.. this is a total myth, and is what is known as a factoid. A fact that "everyone knows" and is totally untrue.. Here is why I think it is untrue. The air we breath is 1% argon, and if it was going to "pool" over a period of time you lungs would fill up with argon, and you would be dead. Now if you breath in 100% argon, like in a confined space, and have no fresh oxygen 20% air to breath in to clear out this argon, then you are going to die pretty quick. But if you breathe in argon, and the next breath is air with oxygen in it.. you are going to dilute the argon in your lungs in a couple of inhales and exhales really quickly also. You are not going to need to hang upside down like a monkey for any period of time. Argon and oxygen readily mix along with the nitrogen, xenon, and CO2 that is in air you breath every day. Personally I think the "go stand on your head to get the argon out of your lungs" is along the same line of BS as bring me a bucket of grinder sparks, or a radiator cap for a Volkswagen beetle, or a muffler bearing. In telephony you send an apprentice back to the Central Office to get a replacement box of "dial tone" So if you disagree please don't be offended, as I have no ill intent, but I am calling BS on the upside down argon clearing procedure. Not to discount the dangers of breathing heavier than air gases in a confined space, because that danger is real, as many dead people can testify to. Flame on!

James K0UA

 

[deereman75]

By the same logic, we would all have nitrogen and co2 pooling in our lungs. Besides, the turbulance of a few fast deep breaths would clear any gas out, even a super heavy gas such as xenon.

 

[daugen]

this little 30 million BTU burner

serious little marshmallow cooker you have there.
It would sure heat my garage, but I also think it could put a satellite in orbit on full blast.
Is that for creating process steam or melting metal?

it must be a very unhappy occasion when you get to the end of a custom project like that, and you
can't fix the problem without creating worse problems like overheating .

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I guess that's why engineers get paid the big bucks? ... to come up with outrageous and unreasonable solutions, without any true knowledge of the consequences of the application of their intellect.

 

[daugen]

I guess that's why engineers get paid the big bucks? ... to come up with outrageous and unreasonable solutions, without any true knowledge of the consequences of the application of their intellect.

Product engineers must all be required to weld. :thumbsup: That would solve it. or not.
In the final analysis, you have to build it and be able to repair it in most cases.
Which means you have to "get in there" one way or the other.

I cursed the boat engineers at Bertram who in stick building my old fiberglass boat interior buried all kinds of important things under
places you couldn't get to and didn't provide access or inspection ports. For example, I had to tear down the entire inner wall in the salon
because the steering and clutch cables from the upper station had been routed through that area, using compression fittings that gripped the cables
like crazy. No way to pull anything through, and as I wrecked the wall I had just freshly wallpapered, the age
old question "what were they thinking" repeatedly came to mind.

It's hard for me to imagine how one can weld in tight or too small areas. How does one hold a rod at the right angle when the whole thing won't fit in there...?
I'm sure there's a million tricks of the pro welder trade, but since I know none of them, well, I'm all ears.
I'll guess number one. Cut the rod shorter...

 

[jwmorris]

this little 30 million BTU burner

serious little marshmallow cooker you have there.
It would sure heat my garage, but I also think it could put a satellite in orbit on full blast.
Is that for creating process steam or melting metal?

it must be a very unhappy occasion when you get to the end of a custom project like that, and you
can't fix the problem without creating worse problems like overheating .

It's a hydrogen/NG burner for a power plant.