DK90 shopping

[holeycow]

Hi all!

First post here for me

I am seriously considering a DK90 for the farm chore tractor (haying, feeding, etc). This would be a 20hp downsize for me. I am currently running a Deutz 7110 for this purpose. At 9000 hrs, it is getting tired and I need to "semi-retire" it, LOL.

Do these DK90 tractors have any inherent flaws? ie, are they a tough, long lasting unit?

What is a fair price in Canada for one?

I know they have a dry clutch. Is it a good, long lasting dry clutch like some of the old ones, or can it be expected to wear out in 1000hrs?

How many hours of reasonably competent ownership is one of these tractors good for.

I have searched and searched all over the 'net, but solid info is pretty hard to find.

How about the PTO engagement. Is it abrupt or reasonably smooth. My haying equipment likes a smooth engagement......

Do the remote hydraulics kick out on their own (I've never had a tractor that didn't)? That is nice when opening/closing the baler endgate.

I have visited a dealer, but he didn't have a DK90 to look at. I thought the DK55 and DX6010 looked like good units though. I noticed that the DX6010's PTO seemed to spool up progressively, whereas the DK55 seemed to just "kick-in"?? This with no implement attached though.

Any input from owners of the DK90 would be much appreciated!

Gotta go feedin' in the deep snow again

Thanks very much and Hi again!

 

[murphy1244]

Welcome from Ohio

 

[kiotiken]

Welcome to TBN. I haven't seen to many DK90 owners here, but there's a member from Australia (MBTRAC) who has a DK 1002 which is a 100hp, you might send him a PM. According to a couple of his posts, he absolutely loves it and is planning to buy more of them. From his list of tractors (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/274265-how-many-people-own-more.html, post #8), he's got a lot of experience with various makes and models.

My DK 45 is very abrupt for the PTO, it's one of the very few things I don't like about the tractor. By "remote hydraulics kick out on their own", I'm assuming you mean like a log spliter when you retract the ram, once it gets back to the start of the stroke, the lever kicks back to the neutral position. Normally, the remotes have a detente that keeps them open and will not kick out when they go to relief, but the DK90 may be different, I don't know, but doubt it.

Sorry I can't offer any more help, but would love to hear more about what you learn.

 

[holeycow]

Welcome to TBN. I haven't seen to many DK90 owners here, but there's a member from Australia (MBTRAC) who has a DK 1002 which is a 100hp, you might send him a PM. According to a couple of his posts, he absolutely loves it and is planning to buy more of them. From his list of tractors (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/274265-how-many-people-own-more.html, post #8), he's got a lot of experience with various makes and models.

My DK 45 is very abrupt for the PTO, it's one of the very few things I don't like about the tractor. By "remote hydraulics kick out on their own", I'm assuming you mean like a log spliter when you retract the ram, once it gets back to the start of the stroke, the lever kicks back to the neutral position. Normally, the remotes have a detente that keeps them open and will not kick out when they go to relief, but the DK90 may be different, I don't know, but doubt it.

Sorry I can't offer any more help, but would love to hear more about what you learn.

Thanks guys,


Hmmmmm;....how do I reply "without quote"?

Anyway, yes that is what I mean about the control "kicking-out". I may have to order the optional remotes to get that feature????

I saw a post from MBTRAC that was quite positive. I will wait for a bit before trying to chat with him.

I would love to know what the going price on these tractors is.......not the dealer first asking price. If I do decide to start dealing, I want to know what a fair target price is.

Thanks again. Maybe someone will show up who knows a bit about these particular tractors.

 

[holeycow]

well, I figured that one out - the reply without quote thing, that is.

 

[kiotiken]

Thanks guys,


Hmmmmm;....how do I reply "without quote"?

Anyway, yes that is what I mean about the control "kicking-out". I may have to order the optional remotes to get that feature????

I saw a post from MBTRAC that was quite positive. I will wait for a bit before trying to chat with him.

I would love to know what the going price on these tractors is.......not the dealer first asking price. If I do decide to start dealing, I want to know what a fair target price is.

Thanks again. Maybe someone will show up who knows a bit about these particular tractors.

I hope somebody who can help you out more does speak up. Again, it may be totally different, but I added additional remote kits to both my CK30 and DK45 and neither one of them have this kick off feature. There's a lot of discussion about people removing the detente from the valve to prevent accidentally dead heading the hydraulics.

I'd send him a PM, no point waiting. Here are a couple more threads to look at and some people to PM while you're at it.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/271916-new-dk90.html
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/229642-pics-my-dk90.html

 

[MBTRAC]

Welcome on board "Holeycow":
Value wise the Daedong/Kioti's are hard to beat, pretty much the same as Korean cars (the Dae's are a lot like the Hyundai Excels of c.10years ago, nothing too flash & does the job fine). They're simple basic machines so should be easy to work on & from those I know who owned them as reliable as any (in theory as a "basic" machine there's less to go wrong), their larger engine (for this class) should be less stressed/marginally less fuel efficient, as I see it what you pay marginally for in extra fuel should be more than offset by increased durability....time will tell.

On our DK1002 the hyd's "kick out" (we have triple remotes fitted) & the PTO engagement is a little harsher (than for example a Deutz) than I would like ideally.

Some observations:
- Prior to our purchase I've inspected a few older Dae's @ up to c.4000hrs+ (apart from the paint which may be owner/application related or a factory shortcoming) they're holding up well.
- Their cabs (on these older machines) seem a little too noisy, a few DBA isn't a show stopper & if it's a concern because of aging/degrading sound attenuation material a set of noise canceling hearing protectors will fix the issue as the tractor ages.
- Fit/Finish is ok some far more expensive machines are better, some worse. Being critical, the control buttons/knobs & cab plastic materials may not hold up well (evident on some older machines but on these units it may be user "abuse" & multiple "paid" operators are hard on the interior, an owner/user should stress the cab less.
- Comfort/Ergonomics is an individual thing so you need to be happy with the "office" , most of the larger Dae's have a cooler/warmer for food which is handy but to me the key factors in a "multipurpose" machine are entry/egress as in just how easy is it to get in/out of the cab (personally the Dae's are a little tight in this regard - maybe I just need to loose weight ? though our farmhands/operators haven't complained) & would be better with wider steps/grab handles/doors etc
- Importantly for us (because of short duration operations) the pull down time of the A/C is good (i.e how quickly on a hot c.38C+ day the cab cools down), though I guess in Canada the Cab heating is going to be more of a consideration.....too for me

Unlike most we have no brand or dealer "allegiance" we go with whatever brand/spec at the time that best suits & makes commercial sense.
Buying the 100hp Daedong is a good spec/value equation for us even at list price ( as spec'd 16/16 syncro for/rev shuttle with FEL 4/1 list @ the time was c. AUD$62K vs our purchase price of AUD$52.8K less GS tax of 1/11 - at recent exhange rates US$ = 1.02AUD$ ). The dealer/Daedong were keen for our business & have worked hard for us, they are also aware if we're satisfied there's orders for 5x100hp units over the next 12months (with the Daedongs we can purchase 6 tractors for a cost marginally over the 4 x other mainstream brands we had budgeted - 2 extra tractors just means we'll replace another 2 a year ahead of schedule with incremental benefits to offset ) - in this segment new JD's, CNH's are just not cutting it on the value/customer focus equation anymore, so our future intentions are to only buy in the 90-130 HP range Daedongs/Kioti's or Deutz ...we're also exiting our last recent JD header for similar reasons.

So far our DK1002 machine has experienced no faults/downtime & copped more than it's far share of various operator abuse in a few months raking up c.350hrs (& I'm expecting c.4000+hrs of relatively trouble free ownership before it's sold off or relegated to a standby farm hack) it's used as a "utility" machine on one of our irrigation farms on everything from slashing, fencing, hay raking, grading to some heavy duties matched to the subsoiler purchased new at the same time & pictured below:

 

[holeycow]

Thankyou for all that MBTRAC, you have answered all of my questions most effectively.

 

[kiotiken]

Thankyou for all that MBTRAC, you have answered all of my questions most effectively.

Now that you're here, stick around. We'd love to hear what you learn from your shopping trips and what you end up with.

 

[holeycow]

based on my research, and MBTRAC's response, I will probably end up with a Kioti DK90. My only reservations are the PTO engagement and the dry clutch. I wish the "DX" series to 100hp was available here.....then there would be no question. I would pay a little more for the wet clutch and 10 more hp, for sure. Marketing strategy is a pain for the consumer sometimes.

I'll keep working on it, and let you guys know what I come up with.


Thanks for the help! I appreciate it.

 

[MBTRAC]

One thing I overlooked to mention on our Kioti DK1002 which we are finding a bit of a pain is the small fuel tank with a capacity at only c.100litres .......just something to consider in day-in/day-out operations

 

[holeycow]

I noticed that on the Australian DK models. I believe the North American model has the 125 l tank. The Australian DX models show the larger tank... I am only going on specs from websites. It seems to me that the NA DK90 is speced somewhere between the Australian DK and DX. All of these "observations" are based on "research", LOL.

How is the fuel mileage anyway? I am spoiled to death with the Deutz air-cooled fuel mileage, which is pretty much astoundingly good (about 20hrs or better in haying ops - it has a small additional saddle tank). My old Minnies were/are very good that way too. I haven't owned many tractors, but luckily every one has been a tough machine and good on fuel. I do not want something that burns an exhorbitant amount of fuel. Period. Someone else was impressed with his DK90 fuel usage, how about you MBTRAC?

Thanks!

 

[MBTRAC]

Funny how individual market specs vary so much.

Sorry can't really give any numbers for indicative fuel usage on our DK as it's used on many tasks & with many operators - my "gut" feel from operating is it pretty much the same as the Landini 95's we worked previously @ somewhere in heavy tillage work from c. 15.5 to20litre/hour.

Unfortunately I'm yet to come across any modern tractor that sips fuel like like an air cooled Deutz - we still run a DX230 & DX140 & years ago used to run a few more D10006, 6206, DX85....etc.

 

[holeycow]

so, with a 125 litre tank, we're only talking about 7hrs. That is a pretty short day. I guess it should be better in lighter work. Sounds expensive for a little tractor though......

This is nearly unbelievable, but between my wife and I, we feed 50 cows for 6 months or more on about 4 fills of fuel with the Deutz (and we run it far-from-dry before filling, and we snow plow the yard and lanes too). I don't even know how many litres that is. It is so good on fuel that I have never even given it much thought, as I know it is as good as it gets. My fuel bill is less significant around here than many other bills.

I guess no matter what new tractor I get, I will be disappointed with fuel consumption. Likely very disappointed...

BTW, I have a "first right of refusal" deposit on a DK90 with the "local" dealer. He is "only" 6hrs away, LOL.

I hope the tractor comes in soon, so I can have a look at it.

MBTRAC, I was wondering how the dry clutch has held up on the higher-hour machines you looked at?

Thanks again MBTRAC!, etal

 

[MBTRAC]

The 15 -20litres/hour I quoted was for heavy going subsoiling & pipe laying with a ripper, so if it's only "ticking over" in lighter duties I'd think it should get down to around 12LPH or maybe less - we don't really take too much notice on our sub-200hp tractors fuel usage as they're the "jack of all trades" utility machines & the fuel usage comparative is very much task/seasonal/operator dependent - we also run the A/C constantly & I would guess our high ambient temperature would impact fuel economy somewhat, there's probably also some market difference in the Kioti's cooling pack/set up (usually our local market tractors/earthmoving gear have tropical cooling packs fitted - as we have found out sometimes when we privately s/h & new import machines from other markets).

I'm unsure of the clutch durability too, so far so good on ours @ c.350hrs - some owners of the high houred machines criticised the clutch durability/some didn't (including one used on an orchard which is usually pretty tough on clutches) so the jury is out.......

As we're getting Autumn rains here today I'm catching up with some paperwork & helping out in the workshop - I should get down to our farm where the Kioti is in the next week or so to rake up a few more hours & experience with the machine prior to placing our next order.

 

[holeycow]

Please let us know how that goes (your trip to the other farm and driving the Kioti again).

I'm only guessing again, but those high-houred machines - and lets face it - even 4000hrs is not really "high hours" on a decent tractor, they may have the 12" clutch which has now been superceeded with the 13" ceramic clutch???

If your DK1002 proves to be a solid tractor, the dx100 may be the ticket for a good, long lasting machine. Is there any reason you got the DK rather than the DX, other than price?

I get about 3000hrs out of this Deutz clutch, and this particular clutch is not known to be really durable......nor is the rearend, unfortunately.

This Duetz has been good to me, and I need another tractor to be the same.

Thanks a lot for your continued input MBTRAC!

funny to be conversing with someone coming into winter when I am coming into spring : ) . Calving soon...I hope the snow goes away and the ground dries pretty quick. Historically, we have good cows, so we should have very few problems, but there's always something...

 

[MBTRAC]

In response:-

Please let us know how that goes (your trip to the other farm and driving the Kioti again).
Will do & I'll "quiz" our operators a little more closely, it'll be a week or so before I can provide feedback

I'm only guessing again, but those high-houred machines - and lets face it - even 4000hrs is not really "high hours" on a decent tractor, they may have the 12" clutch which has now been superceeded with the 13" ceramic clutch???
Yes 4000hrs isn't a lot but was the highest hrs around - at a guess with good maintenance practices/sympathetic operators the Kioti's should be ok without major expenditure for c.6000-7000hrs or about what we'd expect to see on most modern tractors, our "plan" is to trade ours @c.2000 -3000hrs though like everything in farming it's all dependent on the season, crop prices, trade in value ...etc... so our well laid plans may be thrown "out the door..."
Must admit we didn't delve into the cutch spec's prior to purchase - as ours is a 2012 build date it's likely a 13" - as we run these size machines as utility tractors which for us is about 1 step up from a quad bike so they cop similar abuse/reasonably quick replacement + here they come with a 24month'1500hr warranty

If your DK1002 proves to be a solid tractor, the dx100 may be the ticket for a good, long lasting machine. Is there any reason you got the DK rather than the DX, other than price?
For our first Kioti/Daedong the DK was more the value equation & the DK fitted with the "luxury" Cab pack & 4/1 FEL suited our intended operation/period of ownership for a basic workhorse fine (consider most of our "real" farming is well beyond a c.100hp machine)- the DX over here @c. a 13% premium is a little more "up spec" with some features we didn't require initially but overall should prove the more durable/saleable machine & may be my selection as a "primary" tractor - & we may choose the DX for our future orders

I get about 3000hrs out of this Deutz clutch, and this particular clutch is not known to be really durable......nor is the rearend, unfortunately.
3-4500hrs seems about the clutch life in the Deutz's we've had, never had any drama's with the rear ends, it's usually the gearbox crawler/low gears that go on ours maybe prematurely

This Duetz has been good to me, and I need another tractor to be the same.
I'm unsure if any modern tractor will give a similar life of economic service - just like vehicles now, they tend to be a throw away past a certain point - "they say sure don't make them like they used too", hence we run & keep rebuilding/running a lot of aged "clunkers" across our farms - fyi you'll find a list of our gear/scope of our operations here http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/275213-who-owns-most-tractors-4.html

Thanks a lot for your continued input MBTRAC!
No drama - I well understand the diffculties of buying the "right" commercial farm tractor, I've made a few machine "errors" in the past ( & will mostly likely again in the future ) including some expensive mistakes with Challengers & a JCB which all proved "incompatable" with our operations

funny to be conversing with someone coming into winter when I am coming into spring : ) . Calving soon...I hope the snow goes away and the ground dries pretty quick. Historically, we have good cows, so we should have very few problems, but there's always something...[/QUOTE]
Yes, hard to get my head around the seasonal "inversions" in our different hemispheresAnd as for farming in snow that's just beyond my comprehension - good luck with the calving, we don't generally get involved with our calving or lambing (except for "controlling" wild dogs) with nature taking its course remotely in the paddocks with virtually no intervention.

 

[holeycow]

have you considered Guardian dogs to looks after "nature". We have had great success with them. We used to have several hundred ewes (small flock by Auzzie standards, I know) and never lost one animal to predators, yet we live in coyote/bear/wolf and even occasional cougar country.

If you ever have a predator problem, proper dogs can easily care for the flock. Good bred ones, that is, of various ages as the young ones develop proper manners from the older ones.

Snow and cold is just something you get used to....A few aquired techniques, is all. I wouldn't have a clue how to deal with snakes and lizards.....

Looking forward to your upcoming evaluation.

And again, thanks

 

[MBTRAC]

Holeycow :-

Now sitting down to breakfast after being out & about putting the DK1002 through hard paces earlier this morning for c.7hrs, some heavy ripping, slashing (i.e Bush Hogging), a little FEL work & dug a few post holes with a PTO PHD + a Hyd PHD on the FEL, so now 381hrs:-

- the standard lights are woefull, so we'll be fitting LED bars & maybe some HID worklights (as is usual on most of our tractors)
- the standard tyres leave a lot to be desired lacking grip on really soft ground, there seems to be greater "flex" in the side walls than ideal (it could be our standard tyre spec's, pressures or it may be a ballasting issue with water in the tyres).
- slight (likely insigificant) whine in the transmission when crawling, gearbox has "freed" up as it was "notchy" when we first got it
- after an hour developed a slight RPM fluctuation/hunting at low idle, maybe a little sensitive to "dud" fuel we often have on this farm & we'll be fitting supplementary fuel filters/water agglomerator to the Kioti
- the factory FEL & 4/1 is ok with no surprises, a typical "farm biased" lighter unit & we'll be adding an industrial wear lip/teeth to the bucket, lifts a full bucket easily with reasonable speed though the static breakout force seems a little low.
- excessive harmonic vibration causing the cab door glass to annoyingly vibrate/reflect in darkness when operating under lights (looks to be just a door adjustment due to operator abuse rather than a concern with the Cab mounts), there's quite a few reflections in the Cab glass during night operations but most tractors in this size have this "quirk" until you have the lights adjusted right
- the Cab fan is noisier than most, I think there's some crud been dragged in past the Cab filters again(we'll be ditching the factory filters & going aftermarket as we don't believe they're up to our fine "dust"), the tractors has done c.50hrs in constant heavy dusty slashing recently (the Cab stayed quite clean)
- ran an 8ft extremely HD 150hp gearbox slasher fine in 2ft tall very thick grass & taller scrub, no bogging down or temp fluctations (ambient only 60F)
- good control over the PTO when bringing the PTO PHD up to speed & also runs the hyd unit fine
- the hyd's were smoother than I expected/remembered
- apart from one of our operators who detests anything that's not JD green ( & for that matter would rather be in a header year round) the general comment (from a pretty tough bunch to please ) was it's better than what we expected to be......
- we dropped the oil & hyd fluid last week & sent samples for testing, all fine/nothing evident in the filters either
- checked the air filter, seems to be keeping reasonably clean given the conditions
- no coolant usuage to date

Hope this helps in your decision.

PS - Yes guardian dogs are they way to go if practical, we use Maremma sheepdogs for stud sheep & it's worked really well. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work out for our larger sheep mobs as the sheep get then get confused with our working dogs (& scatter looking for the locked away Maremma's for protection/guidance)...but at least we don't have bears, coyotes...etc to contend with - just feral wild dogs.

 

[holeycow]

Sheesh. I thought I replied to your post MBTRAC.....albeit 5 days late. I was looking very forward to your expert evaluation, and didn't look in the right places, obviously.

I made a long-winded reply and lost it somewhere, so here's a shorter version, LOL.

It sounds like the tractor is living up to your expectations........meaning solid value for the dollar? The gearbox whine bothers me somewhat, although it may just be broken in now and the noise will stay the same? Gearbox whine is the reason I am looking to replace/semi retire my Deutz, as it has been increasing over the last 1500hrs. As you said; "likely insignificant?..." with the Kioti. Although in the case of the Deutz it is definately something...

Is the shifting solid and precise now, or is it sloppy and vague? Gearbox break-in is more critical than engine break-in, IMO. In short, does it feel like a nice transmission?

Are you satisfied yet to consider more of the Kioti's? Or are you still wondering?

Your opinion is very valuable to me MBTRAC, and sorry it took so long to get back to you.