Buying Advice HST vs. Gear drive durability

[Red280]

Hi all,

This is my first post and just wanted to introduce myself.

I'm looking to buy a compact tractor in the next few months. I'm looking at about a 30-35hp tractor, something like a Kubota L3800. I'll be getting a FEL and a few attachments. The tractor will mainly be used for mowing and general land maintenance around our home on 6 acres. It will also be used for some land clearing, road maintenance at out families tree farm.

Ideally we'd like to get an HST model with cruise control for ease of use but i'm slightly concerned about the cost to repair the transmission should it ever break...

I see the main benefit of and HST trans for FEL use and wonder if it's worth the extra cost or not.

How do the HST transmissions hold up over time? I don't see a lot of complaints about them and it's a proven technology in this day and age.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Jp

 

[RFB]

I have had nothing but complete success using HST transmissions on 3 different Kubota's. Now, anything made by man can break, so there is nothing perfect. With that being said, unless the duties require a gear transmission, (the mission drives the equipment), I cannot see any disadvantage to an HST.

 

[Grandad4]

First, welcome to TBN! Hydrostatic setups are indeed a proven technology used for many industrial applications well beyond these compact tractors, in large measure because they are so reliable. The HST transmissions used in compact tractors are overwhelmingly trouble-free, based on what you can read here on TBN and I think most dealers would say there are very few service issues with them. I've been following TBN since 2002 and can only remember one HST transmission failure. There may have been others I didn't see, but it's just not something that happens very often.

There would be two conditions I'd place on having an HST type tractor (and I have two of them):
1. If you're going to do major crop farming, a gear drive tractor would be better for field work.
2. Keep the hydraulic fluid clean, clean, clean.

 

[roush9799]

Hydros propel those big combines trouble free. Don't think you'll have to worry about it on a CUT.

 

[TripleR]

Pretty much what Grandad4 said and we own and operate HST as well as geared tractors.

 

[dave1949]

I see numerous posts on TBN about HST drive problems that don't occur for gear drive. There are probably more HST tractors here than gear, so that makes a difference too in the number of problems reported.

For a gear drive tractor doing loader work with lots of shuttling back and forth, the location and usefulness of the forward-reverse shuttle is critical. Mine is to the left of the steering wheel and close enough that I can steer and switch from forward to reverse with one hand. I select a gear and set the hand throttle to a rpm that remains constant, so pushing the clutch pedal in to shuttle is the only foot action needed.

It's whatever feels good to the operator, but I think the positioning/ergonomics of the forward-reverse control on a gear tractor is critical.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I see numerous posts on TBN about HST drive problems that don't occur for gear drive. There are probably more HST tractors here than gear, so that makes a difference too in the number of problems reported.

.

Beat me to it. :thumbsup:
I'm relatively new here but I take it that the site started as a Kubota compact and sub compact site and has grown to cover all brands. Due to that the vast majority of members here have at least one CUT or SCUT and perhaps three quarters of them have HSTs. People being people they are proud of what they own and their decision making process and if you poll them they will vote for HSTs in about the same ratio as they voted for them with their money. So you have a totally biased sample 3 to 1 for HST .
I do see more threads with questions or repairs to HSTs then about gear trannys but again it would have to be better then three to one to be significant considering the sample population.

 

[nybirdman]

Look at it like automobiles;when do you hear of a problem in a car with an automatic if serviced properly under 200,000 miles.

 

[k0ua]

Keep in mind that an L3800 gear tractor does not have a Shuttle per-se, like Dave was referring to. It is a true gear transmission. Yes I am an unabashed fan of the HST for CUT and SCUT tractors for most users.. I am on my 5th tractor in over 20 years, 2 with gear and 3 with Hydro, and I can say hands down with no reservation that hydro is the way to go for most users of these size tractors. NOT that gear is bad and in fact has some advantages for some things. And equipped with a shuttle can be very user friendly for loader work, as many on here will attest..but for the "average" user and the "average"things that user will do, I believe that Hydrostat is better. The incidence of Hydro failures is very low, and in fact lower than the incidence of clutch failures in gear tractors.. Clutch failures are often caused by the user. That said, many people seeking advice on this forum have a minimum of tractor knowledge and are seeking to gain more. I have a saying, that may sound harsh to some, but I am going to say it.."IF you need to ask which transmission system, that you need to purchase, then most likely you need a Hydro" Meaning if you are a skilled experienced operator, then you already know which system will serve you best. And if you are not a skilled experienced operator, then Hydro is best for you in most cases. Bottom line if you are a new to tractor's person, you have more to fear from wearing out the clutch than you do from the Hydro going south on you...You also need to know that you have opened a can of the most contentious worms you could have possibly opened here on this forum The next most contentious thing to ask is what tires to get Good luck on what ever you decide.

James K0UA

 

[jenkinsph]

Beat me to it. :thumbsup:
I'm relatively new here but I take it that the site started as a Kubota compact and sub compact site and has grown to cover all brands. Due to that the vast majority of members here have at least one CUT or SCUT and perhaps three quarters of them have HSTs. People being people they are proud of what they own and their decision making process and if you poll them they will vote for HSTs in about the same ratio as they voted for them with their money. So you have a totally biased sample 3 to 1 for HST .
I do see more threads with questions or repairs to HSTs then about gear trannys but again it would have to be better then three to one to be significant considering the sample population.

To assume that everyone is biased because of what they purchased isn't correct. Their are lots of members here who have owned both gear and hydrostatic, Deere, Massey Ferguson, IH, Case and Kubota brands and so on. Repeat buyers remember both the types and brands that they are satisfied or dissatisfied with. I find that all of them seem to be pretty good and I am sure there are lots of brands that are great machines I haven't heard of yet. But hey that is why I am here.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Keep in mind that an L3800 gear tractor does not have a Shuttle per-se, like Dave was referring to. It is a true gear transmission. Yes I am an unabashed fan of the HST for CUT and SCUT tractors for most users.. I am on my 5th tractor in over 20 years, 2 with gear and 3 with Hydro, and I can say hands down with no reservation that hydro is the way to go for most users of these size tractors. NOT that gear is bad and in fact has some advantages for some things. And equipped with a shuttle can be very user friendly for loader work, as many on here will attest..but for the "average" user and the "average"things that user will do, I believe that Hydrostat is better. The incidence of Hydro failures is very low, and in fact lower than the incidence of clutch failures in gear tractors.. Clutch failures are often caused by the user. That said, many people seeking advice on this forum have a minimum of tractor knowledge and are seeking to gain more. I have a saying, that may sound harsh to some, but I am going to say it.."IF you need to ask which transmission system, that you need to purchase, then most likely you need a Hydro" Meaning if you are a skilled experienced operator, then you already know which system will serve you best. And if you are not a skilled experienced operator, then Hydro is best for you in most cases. Bottom line if you are a new to tractor's person, you have more to fear from wearing out the clutch than you do from the Hydro going south on you...You also need to know that you have opened a can of the most contentious worms you could have possibly opened here on this forum The next most contentious thing to ask is what tires to get Good luck on what ever you decide.

James K0UA

Lot of good stuff there.
I'm only on my second tractor in thirty odd years and went ten years or so in the middle without any. I can say unequivocally that any tractor is better then NO tractor. :yuck:
As to the can of worms, can you imagine if tires came in different colors?

 

[k0ua]

As to the can of worms, can you imagine if tires came in different colors?

I am sorry, but I am in the "black" camp on the tires.. I can't stand the pink one!:laughing:

 

[vtsnowedin]

To assume that everyone is biased because of what they purchased isn't correct. Their are lots of members here who have owned both gear and hydrostatic, Deere, Massey Ferguson, IH, Case and Kubota brands and so on. Repeat buyers remember both the types and brands that they are satisfied or dissatisfied with. I find that all of them seem to be pretty good and I am sure there are lots of brands that are great machines I haven't heard of yet. But hey that is why I am here.

Oh not everyone here for sure, but taken as a group the average numbers of tractors owned lifetime is probably less then three and very likely less then two. And even then if you have owned say six tractors you have just experience with those six and not all the other models made by those same manufacturers. And even very intelligent people trying to be completely objective and scientifically observant have their own biases that they don't perceive.
That does not mean that the collective opinion here is wrong just that the strength of the opinion isn't what makes it so. After all the majority of the worlds people used to think the earth was flat.

 

[s219]

We have a couple manual transmission tractors and a couple HST tractors in my extended family, and I am not aware of any problems with either type.

I'd wager that the manual transmission probably has more moving parts than an HST, and then consider the clutch probably gets more abuse as well. So who knows, it might be more fragile, which seems opposite of what most of us think. The HST is surprisingly simple and robust (way more so than a typical automotive automatic transmission), and based on my experience and research, they seem pretty darn reliable.

 

[dave1949]

If an L3800 gear model has no forward-reverse shuttle as James pointed out, that would be a big negative for me in the selection process, based on what I use my tractor for. I'm not doing ground tillage or the like where you drive for 1/4 mile and then rinse and repeat. I think if it's going to be a gear tractor, it needs a good shuttle.

 

[TripleR]

If an L3800 gear model has no forward-reverse shuttle as James pointed out, that would be a big negative for me in the selection process, based on what I use my tractor for. I'm not doing ground tillage or the like where you drive for 1/4 mile and then rinse and repeat. I think if it's going to be a gear tractor, it needs a good shuttle.

In the stand L, I believe you would have to go up to the L4600 to get synchro shuttle.

 

[art]

If an L3800 gear model has no forward-reverse shuttle as James pointed out, that would be a big negative for me in the selection process, based on what I use my tractor for. I'm not doing ground tillage or the like where you drive for 1/4 mile and then rinse and repeat. I think if it's going to be a gear tractor, it needs a good shuttle.

The L-3800 has a two forward range transmission, low range and reverse range are a straight line shift so it could be called a shuttle!

 

[k0ua]

I think dave1949 was referring to a hydraulic shuttle shift on the steering column that you simply throw a lever forward or backward and do not have to disengage and reengage the clutch pedal. I don't think the L3800DT qualifies as a "shuttle". Please correct me if I am mistaken.

James K0UA

 

[TripleR]

I think dave1949 was referring to a hydraulic shuttle shift on the steering column that you simply throw a lever forward or backward and do not have to disengage and reengage the clutch pedal. I don't think the L3800DT qualifies as a "shuttle". Please correct me if I am mistaken.

James K0UA

That is also my interpretation, the synchro shuttle also has the lever on the column, you just have to use the foot clutch to reverse directions. We have all types, my brother just bought a synchro shuttle Kioti and our Case CS80 was a synchro shutte.

 

[dave1949]

That is also my interpretation, the synchro shuttle also has the lever on the column, you just have to use the foot clutch to reverse directions. We have all types, my brother just bought a synchro shuttle Kioti and our Case CS80 was a synchro shutte.

Mine is the synchro -shuttle type on the steering column, not hydraulic. You have to use the clutch. It can shuttle while rolling, but that is hard on the clutch to reverse directions while going the other way. Once in a while I get out of step with my hand and lean/brace forward in anticipation of going forward, but I'm in reverse. :laughing:

My TC40 has 3 ranges, four gears per range. Range changes require a complete stop and clutch in. Gear changes can be rolling with clutch in, but the wheel/transmission speed needs to match the gear or it doesn't like to go into gear, especially downshifting.