FLOAT CONTROL

[NELS1]

Hello All, I just installed a new control valve on my B7200 HST Kubota with a B1640 loader and everything is normal except the float position. If I put the loader down and push through the detent into the float position the loader raises. Did I hook up something wrong or did I get the wrong valve from Surplus Center?
Thanks for any help.

 

[J_J]

Is your 3pt in neutral?

Re check all your QD's

 

[murphy1244]

:welcome:

 

[J_J]

Sorry, I said Prince earlier, but it is a Brand valve, and it looks like the PB adapter is installed

Is your 3pt in neutral?

Re check all your QD's

 

[NELS1]

yes in neutral . What to check on the QD's ? Everything works as it should except the float . Put the loader down and keep depressing the handle through the detent and the loader raises.
Thanks for the reply , I see from the other posts that you know a lot about hydraulics.

 

[NELS1]

:welcome:

Murph , thanks for the welcome ~ Nels

 

[J_J]

Surplus Center - 2 SPOOL COMPACT 10 GPM JOYSTICK CONTROL VALVE

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7401.pdf

All ports are common when in float, and the fluid flows to tank

Do you have a hyd gage that you can put in a tee in the IN port.

Pressure is coming from somewhere. Maybe back pressure.

Does the loader have much force when you push the lever full down/float?

 

[NELS1]

Surplus Center - 2 SPOOL COMPACT 10 GPM JOYSTICK CONTROL VALVE

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7401.pdf

All ports are common when in float, and the fluid flows to tank

Do you have a hyd gage that you can put in a tee in the IN port.

Pressure is coming from somewhere. Maybe back pressure.

Does the loader have much force when you push the lever full down/float?

JJ Thanks for the help. The loader does have a lot of force when pu tin float. Wouldn't a pressure guage just show that I have pressure? Or does it drop when put into float? Sorry , I'm not well informed in hydraulics but now knowing that the fluid is supposed to neutralized will be a big help.
BTW.. What is regen? Guess it can't be as simple as hoses hooked up wrong (g) Thanks again ~ Nels

 

[Farmerford]

Nels:

I am not familiar with your valve, but in some valves the "float" function connects the work ports and the pump (inlet) port to tank so that the pump provides fresh fluid when needed for the float rather than having fluid drawn backwards through the discharge filter. In that case all the pump flow is through the tank or outlet port rather than the power beyond port. If there is any restriction in the flow path it will cause pressure build up in the tank bores in the valve which would cause the boom cylinders to extend.

The only thing you have said that is inconsistent with a restricted tank circuit is that the valve works normally in all functions except float. A restriction should make all the valve functions either completly ineffective (a full restriction) or slow and weak (a partial restriction).

The instructions for your valve indicate a socket head (I assume) pipe plug inside the tank port that should be removed for power beyond operation. When you installed the power beyond plug, did you also remove the pipe plug from the outlet(tank) port before connecting the tank hose to the port? If you did not, remove the tank hose and look down inside the tank port on the valve; you may see a pipe plug (probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch) that you can remove with a hex wrench.

Good luck.

 

[NELS1]

Nels:

I am not familiar with your valve, but in some valves the "float" function connects the work ports and the pump (inlet) port to tank so that the pump provides fresh fluid when needed for the float rather than having fluid drawn backwards through the discharge filter. In that case all the pump flow is through the tank or outlet port rather than the power beyond port. If there is any restriction in the flow path it will cause pressure build up in the tank bores in the valve which would cause the boom cylinders to extend.

The only thing you have said that is inconsistent with a restricted tank circuit is that the valve works normally in all functions except float. A restriction should make all the valve functions either completly ineffective (a full restriction) or slow and weak (a partial restriction).

The instructions for your valve indicate a socket head (I assume) pipe plug inside the tank port that should be removed for power beyond operation. When you installed the power beyond plug, did you also remove the pipe plug from the outlet(tank) port before connecting the tank hose to the port? If you did not, remove the tank hose and look down inside the tank port on the valve; you may see a pipe plug (probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch) that you can remove with a hex wrench.

Good luck.

Wow , I missed thaat one. As soon as it stops raining I will remove the hose and see if there is a plug. Thanks for the advice.

 

[J_J]

I believe his valve is a Brand valve, and only has the PB sleeve . The Prince valve that looks similar has the 1/4 pipe plug for PB.

http://www.brand-hyd.com/lv/catalog.pdf

The hyd gage will tell you when you have pressure. So if you have say about 500 psi with levers in neutral, then you need to look for a restriction somewhere.

Regen is a function that will provide rapid bucket dump.

If you have remotes, make sure that a spool is not in detent.

How do you know when the 3pt lever is in neutral. Is it spring loaded to neutral?

A gage will indicate pressure if in raise mode.

Can your loader raise the wheels off the ground.

This is what you should have in the PB port.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7401.pdf

Did you recheck hyd system pressure after installing the valve.

I believe the valve was preset to 2000 psi, and if so, you need to reset the relief pressure to 50 to 100 psi below the pump max psi.

If your valve has load checks, remove and check for any debris/trash.

 

[NELS1]

JJ , yes the loader will raise the wheels off the ground . The 3pt has a neutral a low and a gated high speed.
I will have to get a guage to check pressures, guess it wouldn't hurt to have a permanetly mounted one.
I routed the hoses the way they were on the original Kubota valve but just noticed they are different from a typical mounting.Could this be a problem? The schematic shows bucket hoses going from a1 and b1 , I have them just the opposite. a1 is loader down and b1 is loader up.

 

[J_J]

Yes, make sure the hoses match the valve operation.

Is the loader valve working like it should .

Pull lever back the loader goes up.

Push lever fwd, loader goes down, push into detent, float is engaged and floats.

Lever left, bucket tips up.

Lever right bucket tips down, and lever to far right, regen take over and provides a fast dump.

http://www.brand-hyd.com/lv/catalog.pdf

A2 is boom float.

 

[Farmerford]

Nils:

I think when you crossed hoses you are now getting regenerative flow to the loader, which would explain what is happening: move the spool all the way, and the pump is connected to both sides of the boom cylinder.

 

[J_J]

You can mount a 3000 psi liquid hyd in a tee at the IN port of the loader valve for permanent installation., or in a tee with a male QD.

Here are some hyd test sets made by some of our TBN friends.

You can do these for about $30.

Surplus Center - 3000 PSI 2.5" LF LM GAUGE

or pick one up at a TSC, or Northern tools.

It will help you monitor and trouble shoot the hyd system.

 

[Farmerford]

Nels:

Clearly I am not a Sherlock Holmes; perhaps not even a Dr. Watson. It was all in your first post. You said my valve works fine, except that when I move the handle all the way one way to float the booms, the booms (loader) don't float, but rather act like the bucket should act when it is in regenerative. That would scream crossed lines to Sherlock.

No wonder Dr. Watson had an inferiority complex.

 

[NELS1]

JJ and Farmer, Thanks again for the help. The loader works opposite of the way it is described. Pull the handle back and the loader goes down , keep pulling and I feel the detent and then the loader raises. If I switch the hoses won't the detent be in the wrong place?
Push forward and the loader goes up but I don't feel a detent in that position. Left and right roll the bucket.When the rain stops I'll hook it up according to the diagram. a1 to detent to roll the bucket. Just doesn't sit right but then I just don't know.

 

[Farmerford]

DUH (to me).

That valve is designed to be mounted with the work ports on either the left or right side. Yours is mounted with the work ports up. That means the joystick is 90degrees off from where it was designed to be. That "A" and "A1" option business corrects the joystick for mountings where the hoses are on the left or right by rotating the stick functions 90 degrees. But it has no adjustment for a horizontal mounting.

So you must either rotate the mount so the valve has the work ports on the left or right, or leave it as is and learn to operate it in reverse or leave it as is and have regenerative on the boom and float on the bucket.

 

[NELS1]

I just came in from changing the hoses and did it before I read your post. Now the up and down are controlled by turning the handle left and right but do have a fast dump when I use the detent. Guess the boys over at Orangetractor sent me to get the wrong valve. Really want the float position and should have spent the 1k for a valve at Kubota.

 

[/pine]

I just came in from changing the hoses and did it before I read your post. Now the up and down are controlled by turning the handle left and right but do have a fast dump when I use the detent. Guess the boys over at Orangetractor sent me to get the wrong valve. Really want the float position and should have spent the 1k for a valve at Kubota.

just curious...why did you replace the valve in the first place? (rather than just adding a detent)...was there a problem with it?...