Duramax vs. Powerstroke

[Dmace]

The 7.3L, 6.4L and Duramax are all common rail injection unlike the 6.0L that is oil pressure injected. Correct???

Only 6.4 & 6.7 are common rail, 7.3l is HEUI (hydraulically actuated electronic unit injection) with either a cam operated or electric pump.

do you have #'s for amount produced, and amount repaired?

seems if less that 50% repaired.. there are more good than bad.. no? just looking at #'s.

and if the # is 20/80 ??

Do you?
Obviously that's a well protected secret behind Ford's corporate doors. You can only judge by what you see in the real world when actual numbers aren't there.

They all have their problems but those that are "mostly good" get updates and redesigns. The ones that are more bad than good get replaced and destroy contacts.

 

[Fordman1981]

If you are going to look at the 7.3 ford I would suggest a manual transmission. I drove a 2002 f250 with the enclosed reading work body. During that time I pulled a 12' enclosed trailer more than driving just the truck. I put 280,000 miles on the original clutch. When it was replaced the clutch still looked hardly used what gave out was the pressure plate I think 4 springs broke if I remember right.

 

[Diamondpilot]

In 2006 ford sold about nearly twice as many Dmax and Cummins trucks combined. So yes, the numbers looked skewed. I don't have data for each and every year but I did tons of research after getting bit by my 05 Dmax and buying my 06 F350.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

Do you?.

no I don't. whish is why I asked you. Since you said my 'guess' of more good than bad was wrong and imply your 'data' of more bad than good is correct.

with no data. they are both guess's thus my question if you actually had access to a source.

kinda pointless to argue about it if you can't flip to the bak of the book and check the answer.

I have certaintly heard / read stories about bad 6.0's

My real world experience is with (now) 3 of them at work. all 2004 models.

none with blown engines.

the 3rd one we just rectently bought from another contractor. it's interior is ragged.. and bed is a lil beat. but front end is nice. got it for 2k$ and bought it to take front clip off of and scrounge a few other parts for another 04 that got backed into a while back be a payloader on the job ( i posted about that ). i found this one for sale on consignment at a log before xmas.. it went away.. but I fouind the owner.. an asphalt paver in our area.. we bought it.

has 280k miles on it by the way. we have all the maint logs. it's had 'routine maint' and got a new set of batts and an alt late last year. other than that.. oe engine and tranny.. ( 2wd ). runs like a scalded dog. too bad we are parting it.

anyway. back to my point.. the 3 i have direct experience with had no issue.

I'm not nievew enought to say my sample population is indicative of all.. however.. if they are all pieces of junk like claimed.. you'd think out of 3 we'd have hit 1 bad one.. no?

 

[Soundguy]

there are plenty of sites ABOUT the 6.0.. both that praise it, and that hail it.

without actual numbers of birth/death.. I don't see a precise way to say if there are more good than bad.

do you dispute that?

I'm saying that with no concrete data.. how can you draw a conclusion that is not speculation and conjecture?

really?

As for replies from owners that have/had them.

I expece the ones that had good ones chime in.. and ones that are bad chime in.. that's why you see praise and condemnation.

My gm yukon is a POS... I'm sure there are good ones out there. but mines a POS.. and it got/gets/ good care and regular maint. It's just getting to hard to keep all systems running. It is currently on schedule for replacement with a truck that I believe will be better... a 7.3 2002 or 2003. Can I say all gm's are POS based on my exp? nope. but mine is.. to the point I won't take a chance on another gm.

I imagine if I was a user and got a 6.0 and it cost me 6k$ a couple times.. I might feel the same way.. ( and yet ) still not be indicative of the entire population...

just saying....

 

[NWOH_Grizz]

Having had a 2005 F250 Lariat SCREW with the 6.0, I believe that proper maintenance of that engine is one of the keys to its longevity. In other words, if you don't maintain it correctly, it is likely it isn't going to give you good service. That oil must be changed every 6000-7000 miles. Always sent an oil sample to Blackstone Labs after every oil change, and they always came back good except for one time I let it go to almost 8000 miles. That sample showed a marked increase in metals and water in fuel, and an admonition to change the oil sooner. The samples after that were good. Get that *&(%^$ Ford Gold coolant out of there using the proper flushing procedure, and install ELC. Plugged up oil coolers, leading up to plugged a EGR cooler, is expensive.

My biggest complaint about my 6.0 was the FICM. That is a non-moving part that shouldn't go bad at 60,000 miles like mine did. It is mounted on top of the drivers side valve cover, doesn't get much cooling there, maybe that has something to do with the many failures of these units. That is a $1100 repair bill.

If I were to consider buying a used 6.0 now, it would need to have a documented history of proper maintenance from Day One. If not, I'd move to something else. If it showed any signs of having been chipped or tuned, I'd run like ****. If I were convinced that it had proper maintenance, then there wouldn't be any issue with buying another 6.0.

 

[burnieman]

We just sold our 06 ford super duty for less than half of what we paid for it and were lucky to get that. Piece of garbage 6.0 motor. We sued ford under the lemon law and were awarded 4000.00 which didn't come close to our repair bills. If youve had problems with your 6.0 there is a fund established already for the lawsuits. Get in while you can. Friggen ford. I'll never buy another. We just bought a 2012 dodge 3/4 ton 4x4. Hopefully it will be a better truck. Already have an 01 that is like a race truck. Cummins all the way.

 

[buickanddeere]

Thanks to the EPA's meddling with diesels. It isn't much of a choice. Pre 2007 emission standards will save you much on fuel costs and service costs.
Given the price of gasoline vs. diesel at the pump. And the difference between new or used gas vs diesel trucks. One has to sharpen a pencil and figure cost per mile or wanting to drive a diesel.
A new direct injection Ford or direct injection Chev/GMC isn't that far from the price of a used diesel.

 

[Fi-Q]

Me, i had a 03 dmax, qas a good truck. Sold the truck at 300 000 km, dis put a ser of injectors under the warranty and 1 transfer case due to the infamous pump rub issue ( that I wasn t aware before it fail).

Now i have a 06 dmax, LBZ dually, 136 000 km. The lbz generation of dmax was the est and last before the newer 2007.5 new diesel clean engine. So the lbz (06& 07.5) is a really good engine, i would recommand it. But no dmax before 06 due to injector issue and some over heating with the 05. But if youdo get a dmax, i would recommand getting educated on the rub pump t case issue and get the 100$ retro fit done bedore it die on you and cost 2k$.

One of my friend had a 2005. 6.0 pstroke and he literraly put over 5k$ in parts & labor within 2 years ( oil pump, fuelmpump, injector, ecm qiring harness , ect....). So my dmax went more to the ford dealer getting him to work or droppong him there after work than the GM dealer.

 

[Soundguy]

Are you that French Model?

Chris

Bonjour

 

[Code54]

DMACE - sounds like you all have a BIG fleet - I was just wondering if you had any of the newer Cummins 6.7 and how they were holding up if the maintenance schedule was followed? The first ones seemed to have a tough time with the emissions but it seems they got it all worked out but was wondering what your experiences were?

 

[Dmace]

DMACE - sounds like you all have a BIG fleet - I was just wondering if you had any of the newer Cummins 6.7 and how they were holding up if the maintenance schedule was followed? The first ones seemed to have a tough time with the emissions but it seems they got it all worked out but was wondering what your experiences were?

As I said, we have 280-300 vehicles with the construction side (service trucks, bucket trucks, utility bodies, etc...) class 3,4 or 5 (3500, 4500, 5500) trucks making up probably 1/4 of that number. The RAM diesels have been very good, couple of early models (2008) had problems with stalling when idling long but a factory reflash took care of that. None of them are the High Output 800 lb.ft. either but that would be nice. The Ford's and GM's feel like race cars compared to the Cummins when empty but once loaded, they still can't match that low end Cummins grunt. The Aisin tranny is a thing of beauty too! Although, no problems with the Ford or GM trannies either. They're all very good now.

The Ford's gave us DEF problems with frozen injector and failed heater but that was replaced and upgraded. So far so good. I think Ford may have a winner with the 6.7l but still feel the Cummins and Duramax are simplier, proven and better overall still but time will tell. Tough to pick a bad one these days.

I personally take the RAM service truck because the interiors are the most comfortable (for a work truck) as well as the great engine/tranny combo. These trucks get used hard everyday and maintained very well which is exactly what they need!

 

[TheGoose]

I own a 2004 6.0 Cab/Chassis F-350. I'm the 2nd owner, bought the truck at about 115K. Last summer I had to have the engine oil cooler replaced. This was the 2nd time this was done. First time was under warranty.

Here's the deal with the 6.0 engine. The oil cooler is easy clogged, which in turn causes most of the problems you hear about. Clogged oil cooler = less flow to the EGR cooler = blown EGR cooler = water in oil/oil in water = blown head gaskets or worse.

Get a set of gauges like the Edge Insight. Keep an eye on your ECT/EOT (engine coolant to engine oil temps). When the engine oil starts running 15* hotter than the engine coolant your oil cooler is plugged. Have the cooler changed ($2500+ job BTW)out with the latest and greatest version, flush the engine very very thoroughly before doing this, and then get rid of the Ford Gold coolant and use CAT ELC coolant. Also add a coolant filter. Costs about $150 but if it keeps the oil cooler from being plugged it's well worth it. Also, while you're in there, "fix" the EGR valve or upgrade the EGR cooler.

Solve these problems and the 6.0 can be a very good motor. Also, I have a stick shift on mine so I can't comment about the auto transmissions.

I do have several people in my family who use duramax trucks to do heavy hauling (like 580 case backhoes etc) and they have proved to be very, very reliable.

When I had my truck fixed my mechanic told me to stay far, far away from the 6.4. I know my pop has had nothing but trouble from his.

 

[case245]

i say get an 2006 not much emissions on that year or old dmax in 2011 gm star adding exhaust fuild to there trucks i look at them i didnt like all the emissions on them i got a 3500hd gasser 4.11 rears i pulled 20k gcvwr it didnt like the hills that the only place i want the diesel engine

 

[Code54]

Thanks DMACE - it is always interesting to hear how they are doing and any problems that are "common"

As I said, we have 280-300 vehicles with the construction side (service trucks, bucket trucks, utility bodies, etc...) class 3,4 or 5 (3500, 4500, 5500) trucks making up probably 1/4 of that number. The RAM diesels have been very good, couple of early models (2008) had problems with stalling when idling long but a factory reflash took care of that. None of them are the High Output 800 lb.ft. either but that would be nice. The Ford's and GM's feel like race cars compared to the Cummins when empty but once loaded, they still can't match that low end Cummins grunt. The Aisin tranny is a thing of beauty too! Although, no problems with the Ford or GM trannies either. They're all very good now.

The Ford's gave us DEF problems with frozen injector and failed heater but that was replaced and upgraded. So far so good. I think Ford may have a winner with the 6.7l but still feel the Cummins and Duramax are simplier, proven and better overall still but time will tell. Tough to pick a bad one these days.

I personally take the RAM service truck because the interiors are the most comfortable (for a work truck) as well as the great engine/tranny combo. These trucks get used hard everyday and maintained very well which is exactly what they need!

 

[bdeboer]

I had the EXACT same problems with my 08 GMC except my dealer (at the time) said there was nothing wrong with the diesel fumes in the cab. :thumbdown: I also had a problem with not being able to keep batterys in it. They would only last a year. That being said, I liked that truck so much I just traded for a 13 GMC SLE. I only have 3500 miles on it so far but I am liking it more every day. No more smell at regen. I think they fixed that problem with the 9th injector. I'm also real happy with the engine brake they added. .

Mine still has the original 5 year old batteries, started no problem after sitting outside all last week. Glad the new one seems to be improved. I found a TSB on the downpipe on DieselPlace after the dealer I purchased it from said it was normal. Took it to the dealer I prefer, and they took care of it.

 

[PMA]

I have owned Ford F-250 since 1994. I have had three. 1994,2006, and now a 2011. Never had any problems with any of the motors. Only problem I had was with 1994 that had a vacuum pump replaced and the clutch in the fan. Just like Fords. And plus they didn't receive any stimulus money from our current regime.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[MIKE R]

Thanks all for your input. I think I will stay clear of the Ford Powerstrokes. I do like the look of them but doing more reading and talking to people I think I will stay away from them for now.

As for the Duramax engines how to people like the LLY and the LBZ engines?

I have been told they are one of the best truck engines for cold starts(-10 to -35 Celsius) not being plugged in.

 

[Dmace]

Thanks all for your input. I think I will stay clear of the Ford Powerstrokes. I do like the look of them but doing more reading and talking to people I think I will stay away from them for now.

As for the Duramax engines how to people like the LLY and the LBZ engines?

If you go with the older LLY engine, stick to a 2006 model. They're completely different from the 04-05 LLY engines and didn't have the overheating problems plus a big TQ gain (605lb.ft. vs 520lb.ft) . The 06 LLY was basically the LBZ engine with minor tuning changes. Being an "older" engine, you'll probably get a better deal on a 06 model too!

 

[crbr]

LBZ is the better generation engine in the classic body style (2006.5 - 2007). LLY is reliable but more of a spin-off from the LB7 (which was my worst engine after three of the Duramax powered trucks). I had an LBZ for five years and really like it as far as comparison to the LLY / LB7. I would not touch an LB7 again.

An early 2007 (classic body style) would be my preference. The 2007.5 model changed engines and body styles.