Kill Switch?

[Gibber]

I hit hard while trying to miss my daughters dang dog with my Foton 404. The bucket caught. The tractor hit hard, tractor and motor just stopped like now!. I have all electric, battery seems good. Would a fuse blown or a kill switch activated?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

The engine is diesel and requires no electricity, there is no kill switch.

What happens when you try to start it? Does the engine spin? What does the exhaust look like?

 

[Gibber]

Absolutely nothing. I don't even think I hear a click but maybe a light blink. Its blowing 30 and 6 inches of snow. First night since I owned it, it will be outside overnight, Its killing me.

 

[Gibber]

Why would there be no activation to the starter when the battery is good?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Absolutely nothing. I don't even think I hear a click but maybe a light blink. Its blowing 30 and 6 inches of snow. First night since I owned it, it will be outside overnight, Its killing me.

I feel your pain, my mental health state is directly correlated to the operational state of my tractor.

Based on your description, here's what I think is the worst case scenario: you broke the transmission or the motor mounts and the motor is jammed. Tractors don't have a body like a car. The engine, transmission and differential are all bolted together. You sit on top of the transmission, the rear wheels connect to the differential and the front axle is bolted to the bottom of the engine. It happens that the engine and transmission come apart after a violent shock, and when that happens the flywheel can jam. This would not be a trivial problem!

A less dire possibility: the hydraulic connectors on your front-end-loader have come off. That causes the hydraulic pump to stop, it's connected to the engine and can stop the engine. I've had that happen and when it does the engine won't turn with the starter. Reconnecting the hoses fixes it. If this happened to you, you are very lucky and the engine must not have been running very fast, usually if the hose comes off with the engine running the pump blows up.

Two other possibilities, both have happened to me, both seemed dire at the time but weren't: One time I drove into a tree and a branch hooked the kill switch cable on the motor and turned it off. I really thought I'd done it that time. Another time I ran over a branch and it pulled the wire off of the clutch switch, the starter wouldn't engage after that.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I think the first thing you want to establish is whether the starter is not functioning or whether the engine is locked up. If you put a wrench on the crankshaft pulley (it's a 27mm on mine) and set your socket to go clockwise, you should be able to turn the engine over with about as much effort as pull-starting a lawnmower. Make sure the fuel is off! If it turns, something is up with the starter. If it doesn't, something is keeping the engine from turning. I'd look at the hydraulic pump, it's possible the starter is jammed in the flywheel or there is internal damage.

Let us know.

 

[Gibber]

Thanks a lot fellas. The bucket and blade are down so pulling it in the steel building might be a chore. I did notice that behind the clutch pedal a wire with a red cap like thing on it appeared to be off the depression type switch located behind the clutch pedal??? When the clutch is pressed the switch is open. When the clutch is out, the switch is depressed?

 

[sd455dan]

My guess is thats a safety interlock switch with normally open contacts. When you depress the clutch the switch actually closes the contacts, they are wired in series with your starter solenoid. If the connector to the switch was Knocked off when saving your daughters dog The symptoms you describe would be the result... Hooking up the connector may very well solve your non start issue. Hope this helps

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Thanks a lot fellas. The bucket and blade are down so pulling it in the steel building might be a chore. I did notice that behind the clutch pedal a wire with a red cap like thing on it appeared to be off the depression type switch located behind the clutch pedal??? When the clutch is pressed the switch is open. When the clutch is out, the switch is depressed?

Other way round. Pushing the clutch closes the switch and allows the starter to operate. This would completely explain your starter not working.

 

[RonMar]

What Quicksand said. Did you mash on the clutch pedal during the sudden stop? If the clutch safety switch was not mechanically rigged correctly(screwed into it's bracket too far), you may have actually damaged the switch when stomping on the pedal. I have seen this type switch with the back side of the switch body blown off/broken from misadjustment.

At any rate, this switch must make contact to allow energy from the key switch to reach and activate the starter solenoid and starter motor. If the back of the switch/wires are disconnected from the switch, you can reconnect them, or if that is not possible, you can connect the wires together to complete the starter circuit and allow you to crank the engine and get the tractor someplace more comfortable to work on...

 

[Rich Waugh]

Yep, my guess would be the start safety switch on the clutch pedal has been broken or knocked out of adjustment.. You can bypass it with a paper clip or short piece of wire between the two wires and if the wiring itself is okay the tractor should start. If you can short the solenoid on the starter with a screwdriver and get it to start, then the mechanical stuff is okay. Short from the solenoid terminal to the battery terminal and it should turn over - be sure it is in neutral, of course.

 

[sd455dan]

Guys re read what I said (when you depress the clutch the switch actually closes the contacts) that allows current to flow. A normally open switch is a switch with open contacts until it is actuated-by depressing the clutch you close the switch. OOps your right the switch on these chinese tractors are normally closed, unless like a car you have to fully depress the clutch which closes the contacts that would also be safer. Anyway I hope the switch is the problem.

 

[Gibber]

OK, there are two switches. One to the break pedal and one to the clutch. The brake one opens when pressed and the clutch one closes when pressed. Wires ok on both.

 

[Gibber]

I crossed the the Solenoid posts with a screw driver and after a few times it started. It's in the barn. So, it wont start again is it the solenoid or the started?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

OK, there are two switches. One to the break pedal and one to the clutch. The brake one opens when pressed and the clutch one closes when pressed. Wires ok on both.

Brake switch is for brake lights, clutch switch is safety interlock. On my tractor they're both the same switch, but it seems Chinese tractors are built with whatever parts they had lying around on the day they built them so you never know.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I crossed the the Solenoid posts with a screw driver and after a few times it started. It's in the barn. So, it wont start again is it the solenoid or the started?

That's really good news.

When you say it won't start, do you mean it won't start with the key, or won't start with the screwdriver across the solenoid?

If it won't start with the key but will with the screwdriver, you have to trace the path of the electricity from battery to solenoid to ground and see where it's missing. You need a helper and a test lamp or voltmeter. The path is from battery to fuse box to key switch to clutch switch to solenoid to ground (that order may not be quite right). With a helper turning the key you need to check if you have voltage at the solenoid. If so, there's a problem with the solenoid. If not, trace backwards until you get voltage.

Check the fuse. Even if it's not burned out, sometimes they get loose and taking them out and putting them back again improves the connection.

 

[SPIKER]

what others have said, you may have started it with the key OFF when you jumped it and turned on lights etc killing the battery or maybe left the key turned ON after getting it back inside. (dont ask how I know that one)

clutch safety switch lets the Key Switch power/current flow thru it to the starter relay/solenoid. that pulls in and power flows thru it to the starter motor.

Some other things to check are battery terminals all tight, and the block grounds still tight. check for the main fuses are they all OK and that you have power to the key.

Mark

 

[Gibber]

You have been so much help. Yep it started with the screw driver but not the key. It has a bunch of relays like 4-5. Foton owners manuals are terrible so I have little in the way of mapping. All the fuses on it are for the lights and one for the fuel heater. When you say voltage at the solenoid... I don't understand? When I crossed the poles on it, sparked and allowed the starter to run with the key so there must be power to it?
Thank you for your, and others help too. I'm close to getting it.

 

[Gibber]

Thanks Spiker. Nope, when we crossed the solenoid poles it sparked and as I was crossing them my son depressed the clutch and brake pedals which works those switches then he turned the key. It took a few times for the starter to catch (Sounded like the starter on my 1979 dodge ram)then it started. After I shut her down in the barn, I tried starting it as normal and no go. All lights work but no starter?