How much tractor do I need?

[UncleBuck1]

I'm getting conflicting information from dealers- who of course have a vested interest in "up-selling"- on what size tractor I need and I'm looking for some unbiased advice.

I recently purchased 160 acres of land that includes about 95 acres of cutover pine that I want to clean up (remaining property is mature hardwoods). A fair amount of slash is on the ground and also a large number of stumps that were dug out for roads and food plots. My plan is to install a grapple on whatever tractor I buy and start picking up and piling all of the logging trash.

After reading everything I could find about grapple operation I started looking for a 40-50hp 4wd tractor, but the salesman at a local Kubota dealership told me I should look at a 60hp or larger tractor. He said that a 40hp tractor would be "too light in the britches" for a grapple and that I wouldn't be satisified with it for clean up use. Of course then he told me that he had no experience with grapples and didn't know if they had ever sold one before.

Can any of you guys running grapples on your CUTs give me some advice on your experiences and recommendations on how big of a tractor I should be looking for?

Brian

 

[3v0]

Not a clue here but I would look at the loader spec for each tractor. Headroom is good thing.

Stumps can be heavy especially if there is much dirt on the root ball.

 

[unbidden]

I'd move this question over to Buying/Pricing/Comparisons
I'm sure you'll get some suggestions with'in the hour.

 

[nybirdman]

I use a L4240 Kubota(44HP) with loaded rears and no problems.If you use a full grapple(500+lbs) you may have to add more ballast.

 

[hosspuller]

No one I know has ever been unhappy with a too large tractor. Lots more unhappy with their too small tractor.

Be aware stumps are the hardest work a tractor is faced with. That "small" stump can frustrate the largest tractor and its owner. Broken chains are dangerous too.

 

[paulemar]

I'm getting conflicting information from dealers- who of course have a vested interest in "up-selling"- on what size tractor I need and I'm looking for some unbiased advice.

I recently purchased 160 acres of land that includes about 95 acres of cutover pine that I want to clean up (remaining property is mature hardwoods). A fair amount of slash is on the ground and also a large number of stumps that were dug out for roads and food plots. My plan is to install a grapple on whatever tractor I buy and start picking up and piling all of the logging trash.

After reading everything I could find about grapple operation I started looking for a 40-50hp 4wd tractor, but the salesman at a local Kubota dealership told me I should look at a 60hp or larger tractor. He said that a 40hp tractor would be "too light in the britches" for a grapple and that I wouldn't be satisified with it for clean up use. Of course then he told me that he had no experience with grapples and didn't know if they had ever sold one before.

Can any of you guys running grapples on your CUTs give me some advice on your experiences and recommendations on how big of a tractor I should be looking for?

Brian

I agree with your dealer. You're talking about nearly 100 acres to clean up. That's a lot of work for one guy on a tractor and is going be a major project. It's been said on this forum many times that you never hear of someone complaining of having too much horsepower. More horsepower and weight will be your friend for what you have to do. Whatever you decide, make sure that you have an appropriate counterweight on the back of your tractor to offset the load in the grapple.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

One important thing to keep in mind when selecting a grapple is to make sure you get one that is the right size and weight for the tractor you decide on. A 40-50hp compact tractor will be best fitted with a 400-500 pound grapple rather than a 700-800+ pound grapple that is best suited for a 50+hp larger framed utility tractor. You'll be able to lift more and maneuver a compact tractor better with the compact grapple. Like paulemar and your dealer said, you may be better off with a larger tractor for the amount of acreage you have.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
I recently purchased 160 acres of land that includes about 95 acres of cutover pine that I want to clean up (remaining property is mature hardwoods).

Congrats! And how mature are the hardwoods? 100 yr old? 30? How much underbrush? What's the tree spacing like? How low are the limbs? How big were the pine? Did the stumps come from trees 5' DBH or 2' DBH?
And what about the pronoun "I", how large is your workforce? Are you doing this by yourself or do you have 5 dedicated 20yr+ old sons helping you?

A fair amount of slash is on the ground and also a large number of stumps that were dug out for roads and food plots. My plan is to install a grapple on whatever tractor I buy and start picking up and piling all of the logging trash.

Why? Are you going for pasture? Forest? WalMart?

After reading everything I could find about grapple operation I started looking for a 40-50hp 4wd tractor, but the salesman at a local Kubota dealership told me I should look at a 60hp or larger tractor. He said that a 40hp tractor would be "too light in the britches" for a grapple and that I wouldn't be satisified with it for clean up use. Of course then he told me that he had no experience with grapples and didn't know if they had ever sold one before.

Speaking of "too light in the britches" - how much do you want to lighten your wallet? Is this for fun or profit? Will you be doing this after a 10 hour workday/commute and on weekends or is it a fulltime job?

Can any of you guys running grapples on your CUTs give me some advice on your experiences and recommendations on how big of a tractor I should be looking for?

I don't have a grapple yet, but I just got my 50HP Kubota (due to pickup Monday). But I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

I'd recommend you talk to your forester and determine how fast the "trash" will rot, versus cleaning up 95 acres single handed.

In northeast Mississippi most of my scattered pine trash was in advanced decomposition after about 5 years. Stumps are still rotting. If you plant it back to fast growing pine it may not make sense to clean it up.

If you are going to make it your lifes work to clean up the 95 acres part time and it's all BIG stumps you'll probably need 70HP plus, if it's from matchstick size trees, your doing it full time and your only cleaning up a few lanes 50HP will likely do.

If your going to have to drive the tractor thru dense mature woods size does matter.

Lot's of tradeoffs, give TBN some more info and we'll try to help you out.

 

[rbtjr]

I have a little experience that may be useful. We recently had 36 acres of pines thinned. I had a 50 pto hp Kubota M5400 4WD but I sold it and bought a 38 hp Kubota L3800 HST. The reason was that only two in our family of nine felt comfortable operating the M5400. The debate was between the L4600 and the L3800. Most family members who were interested wanted the smaller tractor. I had reservations, but I went along. If I had it to do again, I would get the L4600. The L3800 is a very good tractor, but I miss the wider stance and heavier weight of a larger tractor (even after I put 4" spacers on each rear wheel on the L3800 to widen its stance for more stability). We have 60 acres total and previously had 127 acres. The M5400 was fine for everything I wanted to do on these tracts. I think the L4600 would have been good also. When in doubt, I would err on the side of a larger tractor and more hp, and definitely get a FEL with hydraulic outlets on the rear and also an extra set of hydraulic outlets on the FEL to accomodate a grapple. As to grapples, I had in mind cleaning up most of the 36 acres we had thinned. I read lots of info on this web site about which grapple to buy. I had some extra money from the pine thinning, and I ended up buying two--one 48" Wildkat economy grapple and a 56" W. R. Long grapple. I really like them both. They are different. The L3800 can handle both with no difficulty, in my experience. The Wildkat is better for digging, especially digging out small roots. The Long can grab more stuff and hold it securely for carrying. But the real lesson I learned in this process is that my idea of cleaning up 36 acres of pine-thinning debris was unrealistic. It would take too long, and it isn't necessary to accomplish the goals I have for the land. So, I have revised my plan to be to clean up only what I need to clean up for a specific purpose--roads, wildlife plots, etc. I'm going to let the rest of the debris rot, which it will do quickly. Like a previousl poster said, I would recommend that you consider the same approach--don't make your tractor selection depend on a plan of cleaning up your entire tract. Based on my experience, you will find that selective cleaning-up is more practical. Just my two cents worth (if it is worth that).

 

[Charolais]

I have an Agrofarm 100 Deutz Fahr with a Stoll loader and use a W R Long open bottom grapple, with 2 grapples, 80 in. wide. and weighs 735 pounds. The tractor is 4wd with cab and is 96 hp. I added methanol ballast to the rear tires and that added 2,200 lbs. The tractor weighs 8,100 stock. Add loader,grapple, ballast and a 300 pound hitch with chain storage and it's just over 12,000 pounds. I've grabbed logs and had either left or right rear wheel come off the ground and that was on sloping ground. Most any large log(3,000 pound maybe a little more) I can lift, if I have to back up and any slope at all I have to use the front wheels to back up because the rear still needs more weight. I never use 4wd going forward with the grapple down because I could crush the loader. I could use another 1000-1500 pounds on the rear if it's not level ground.
Don't really need all that HP but do need weight. That's the problem with modern tractors. Got plenty of engine hp but not enough weight to keep it glued to the ground. Any of them will turn over in the right situation. And can turn over fast too. I've never rolled one but came close a few times. That's why I went for the larger tractor and still have to be very careful in some situations.

Forgot to add I let the wheels out(front and rear) to just over 8 ft. outside to outside. That helps to keep it upright too.

 

[schmism]

you didnt mention what your budget was or what your use was after your project.

Id seriouisly consider a used tracked skidsteer with grapple.

1) skidsteers have significantly higher lift capacities than most CUT's.
2) you can attach a mulching head to some skidsteers which you may find much quicker way to deal with slash than trying to pick it up and move it to piles to burn it.

Granted mulching heads are expensive, but you could likely buy used and sell it after your finished for much less over all cost than what it would take to pay someone to do it.

the skidsteer could also be sold at the end of the clearing project when you have a much better idea of what you'll be doing with the property long term and what type of equipment you'll want ot do that with. (eg 40 hp CUT still dont take modern hay equpment well, 50hp small AG is the min these days)

 

[xring100]

I have an Agrofarm 100 Deutz Fahr with a Stoll loader and use a W R Long open bottom grapple, with 2 grapples, 80 in. wide. and weighs 735 pounds. The tractor is 4wd with cab and is 96 hp. I added methanol ballast to the rear tires and that added 2,200 lbs. The tractor weighs 8,100 stock. Add loader,grapple, ballast and a 300 pound hitch with chain storage and it's just over 12,000 pounds. I've grabbed logs and had either left or right rear wheel come off the ground and that was on sloping ground. Most any large log(3,000 pound maybe a little more) I can lift, if I have to back up and any slope at all I have to use the front wheels to back up because the rear still needs more weight. I never use 4wd going forward with the grapple down because I could crush the loader. I could use another 1000-1500 pounds on the rear if it's not level ground.
Don't really need all that HP but do need weight. That's the problem with modern tractors. Got plenty of engine hp but not enough weight to keep it glued to the ground. Any of them will turn over in the right situation. And can turn over fast too. I've never rolled one but came close a few times. That's why I went for the larger tractor and still have to be very careful in some situations.

Forgot to add I let the wheels out(front and rear) to just over 8 ft. outside to outside. That helps to keep it upright too.

Agreed im just over 10,000 lbs operating weight on an m8540 plus a 1000 lbs or so if 3pt ballast. I need to build a 2500 - 3000 lb ballast box. The more weight the better for what your describing. With that kind of property i would probably want two machines. A CUT 35-45hp and a utility tractor with a loader capacity approaching 3000 lbs 800 mm forward of the pivot probably 80 -100 hp. A 3 pt backhoe would be nice. Or a descent TLB

Dave

 

[rustyshakelford]

I might be in the minority, buried suggest a Dozer to clean up what you want and cut roads. When done with it, sell it and then buy a tractor

Brett

 

[Code54]

Having had a L3700 I found it to be too small for log work. I sold it and bought a mx5100 and am MUCH happier. There are times even with a counter weight it is still a little light so I would opt for the heaviest/largest tractor I could afford and fit in the area i'm working. I live on 7 acres, clear a private road and help take care of a 100 acre farm for reference.

 

[case245]

i would not consider under a 70 hp tractor for that kind of use i have a 7040 and thats to small at times

 

[moriboy]

I recommend buying as much horsepower as you can. I have an m7040, and there are times it feels small when doing brush and stump cleanup. Like most others have said, no one complains that their machine is too big but a lot complain about too light, small, not enough traction, weak hydraulics, etc.

 

[moriboy]

I might be in the minority, buried suggest a Dozer to clean up what you want and cut roads. When done with it, sell it and then buy a tractor

Brett

I agree, I have a JD350 and it will walk circles around a wheeled tractor when building roads and pushing out stumps.

 

[NICKB304]

that would be my thought also. take a week off and rent some real equipment (dozer, excavator, large backhoe, loader) to do the initial clearing then go buy yourself a nice 50ish hp tractor to maintain the farm.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have a 70 HP tractor and it will do some amazing lifting but when it comes to clearing and piling slash, I think I would go for a dozer. Either buy, rent or hire the work done by a professional operator. You can easily tear up a $30-50K tractor doing the kind of work you are talking about. Not to mention running a tree stub thru a radiator or tires.
If you have the time and money, buy a nice 450 dozer with 6 way blade and maybe even a root blade would do wonders in that slash area piling the trash up. Later when burning it all, the dozer would be able to repile the burning stuff so it burns up completely. Then with the six way blade, use it to level out the humps and fill in the pot holes from digging out the stumps. If I had 160 acres I would keep a dozer for working that at all times, but if you wanted, you could recoup most or all of your money on the dozer by selling it after you are finished. Put forth the money to get a good one that doesnt need the undercarriage rebuilt or other issues and it will be easy to sell it later.
After the clean up is finished, then look for a 50Hp tractor with a cab for comfort to maintain that pasture area. If you will be living on it full time a 50 is big enough if you arent in a hurry other wise you may want a larger tractor to run a 15 foot batwing mower. These would get the job done faster but at much higher dollars. I havent priced the big mowers but I think they would cost about as much as a 30 HP tractor. A 50 hp will pull a 7 foot bushhog with ease thru about anything that you would have and its large enough to handle a large round bale of hay with ease if you decide to become a cattle baron.
If you are contemplating going into the big round bale haying operation, you may want to go up to a 60-70 HP tractor. MY LS P7010 would easily handle any thing on a 160 acre farm and they can be bought for $36K with 4 WD and FEL and Cab with HVAC and stereo and 5 year warranty. Visit the LS forum here on TBN for info on these tractors and happy owners.
Again, go for a dozer,buy, rent or contract but for the amount of work, buying would be my preference. Save the wear and tear of tractor for later farming/ranching operations.

 

[WVBartMan]

UncleBuc: Lots of good advice on here and many are speaking from experience, been there, done that, and have the scars to prove it. I did the same thing a couple of years ago when it came to clearing property and purchased a new 50 hp tractor with grapple and box blade, also I purchased a large used Komatsu Excavator with a thumb. I spent the summer clearing, burning and moving dirt to get this place fixed up. The only thing I would have done different is getting a 100 hp tractor instead of the 50 hp. After finishing my project I sold my excavator for a profit.

I now have both a 50 hp and 95 hp tractor and find myself on the 95 hp tractor over 95% of the time. I have a saying up here in the mountains "go big or stay out of the woods". The saying came from me spending most of my time on two wheels with the 50 hp tractor. I really pushed it beyond its designed capabilities and was lucky it was well built and nothing broke.

Finally, the price difference between a 50 hp verses a 100 hp tractor is not as wide as you would think and the difference in the tractors is night and day. My advice, go big, you won't regret it.