Oil Filter Comparison

[brokenot]

That minimopar link is as worthless as any of the other "oil filter comparison" websites out there. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: No testing equipment means no testing was done.

The author DOES mention SAE testing, but then *sort of* dismisses it. He mentions that the SAE tests are done to ensure the filters meet the criteria set forth by engine manufacturers, but then goes on to say that the testing done has "several shortcomings".

I would really like to hear what an engine manufacturer, (or SAE testing engineer for that matter), would have to say about the "cut-it-open-and-have-a-look-inside" methodology. I'm sure they'd toss their specifications and various testing apparatus' right out the window.

A couple of my favorite quotes by the author:

Probably the most important value here is the element surface area.

So...he cuts open a filter and spreads out the media to measure it

But....he also says this:

There is no way of usefully-identifying the media types by visual inspection.

So....he's comparing media surface areas, while simultaneously acknowledging that different filter media performs differently, AND....adding that there's no way of "usefully identifying" different types of media by VISUAL INSPECTION.

I've seen the minimopar link, (and several other similar ones as well), posted on several forums over the years. I cannot understand the "legs" these sites have, and I often wonder if the people that keep linking to them, (with good intentions no doubt), have ever really sat down and thought about what these sites contain as far as useful information goes...

 

[daugen]

That minimopar link is as worthless as any of the other "oil filter comparison" websites out there.

well, something is better than nothing, nothing being the oil marketing fluff.
I found this very helpful, and I think the writer was pretty clear about the limitations of the comparisons done.
We have had a number of threads on filters, it's a constant interest of most of us, and yes, we need to keep science in mind,
not just nice pictures.

But as stated in other threads, we are NEVER going to get comparison SAE tests, the industry and perhaps their insurers want no part of it.
And if there was a test, shortly thereafter there would likely be a bunch of changes made, and not necessarily an improvement, but a perception of improvement.
That's what sells.

I have learned two things here, and from reading a bunch of these posts also, mostly anecdotal experiences from TBN members, or one of the auto blogs.
1) Most brand name filters will perform adequately with normal/moderate use and proper oil change intervals.
2) Some filters are built stronger, filter a little better (but unable to quantify) and seem worthwhile to me for commercial use, high performance, or severe use.

I tow an equipment trailer, and that suggests to me, along with my warm up idling on cold mornings, and short trips around town, that a premium filter has some value to me.
But perhaps it's all in my mind, and that's ok too. 5000 mile oil change intervals with synthetic oil and a Purolator One, Wix or Mobil 1 filter has worked for me a long time.

 

[puckgrinder85]

Thats why I love my cars that dont have spin on filters, no cutting needed. I see the element when I take it out.

 

[94BULLITT]

Thats why I love my cars that dont have spin on filters, no cutting needed. I see the element when I take it out.

There is not much for them to cheap out on a cartridge filter.

 

[PoorMansCat]

personally, I use Motorcraft on my wifes Mazda, Donaldson on my Cummins and Cat on anything else that I can find a cross-reference for..
Every time I find a filter test online, Fram seels to be the big topic of discussion. Think I will just steer clear of orange filters...

 

[brokenot]

Every time I find a filter test online, Fram seels to be the big topic of discussion. Think I will just steer clear of orange filters...

If you ever DO see a "filter test" online, by all means post a link to it. Absolutely NONE of the cut-'em-open-and-peek-inside filter comparison websites have done anything that remotely resembles testing.

What other product do we allow someone else, (without experience, expertise, or testing equipment), to "evaluate" for us so we can base our purchasing decisions upon their say-so....when an entity WITH experience, expertise, and lots of testing equipment has stamped their seal of approval on said product already?

 

[94BULLITT]

I think the average person could tell a lot about a oil filter just by looking at it. You don't have to be a engineer to so the advantages or disadvantages of a filter.

 

[Soundguy]

alot of the differences I notice in a spin on is can thickness. i've seen some no names that the drive thru's use are as thin as a soda can nearly.

still.. on a car/truck where it's protected from sticks and rocks.. that's not an issue.

on a tractor.. i have on occasion had a stick / rock damage a spin on with a thin can ( have had em damage thick canned ones too.. depending on what ya hit with em )

 

[daugen]

If you ever DO see a "filter test" online, by all means post a link to it. Absolutely NONE of the cut-'em-open-and-peek-inside filter comparison websites have done anything that remotely resembles testing.

What other product do we allow someone else, (without experience, expertise, or testing equipment), to "evaluate" for us so we can base our purchasing decisions upon their say-so....when an entity WITH experience, expertise, and lots of testing equipment has stamped their seal of approval on said product already?

Some companies make only one quality filter. Others like Fram make several, or more, for different price points and application. And it seems most dealership filters are rebranded "something" that is always a question.
I got quizzed at my GM dealer about why I thought I needed to use a K&N filter. Or a Mobil 1. From reading this article, now I know why, the case really is thicker, and on one vehicle the nut welded on the end was super helpful
because the access hole in the plastic shrouding was tiny. Otherwise the two filters are likely the same, and buy the cheaper. Good tip.

But one good tip does not make a good decision. Without micron ratings and bypass stats, you're absolutely right, we are ignoring the chemistry and science and are marveling at the chrome case...or something that may
not impact on real world filtration at all. And when is a filter "too big"? Or too small? I have owned several Nissan and Infiniti products and their oil filter is the same size as the one on my JD lawn tractor. Amazingly small.
And my wife's SRX, one of the early ones, had a cartridge filter. GM's highest tech V6 and it has a cartridge filter. Why?

Due to the high cost/value of today's engines, in cars, trucks, boats, whatever, a defective oil filter could expensively trash an engine, though I've never heard of it happening. And the cost times however many bad filters there were in that run could be a huge product liability cost and very destructive to a brand name's image. So it makes sense the big guys would have high spec quality control.

And we are back at square one. Another thread addressed this, no Consumer Reports or anyone is willing to do comparative testing. SAE, etc sets specs, but I have very little faith that the dealership's "house filter" is set to any spec; it's what they get a good deal on. And gosh, if the engine fails, likely it will come back for profitable servicing, so I'm leery of dealer recommendations.

 

[94BULLITT]

Due to the high cost/value of today's engines, in cars, trucks, boats, whatever, a defective oil filter could expensively trash an engine, though I've never heard of it happening. And the cost times however many bad filters there were in that run could be a huge product liability cost and very destructive to a brand name's image. So it makes sense the big guys would have high spec quality control.

The reason you never hear of a defective oil filter is because most people are not away that is what happened to their engine. Alot of people say I have never had any problem with a Fram but there is a good chance they could have. If you can get a 150,000 mile out of a engine with a Fram how long would it have lasted with a quality filter like a Wix.

 

[daugen]

The reason you never hear of a defective oil filter is because most people are not away that is what happened to their engine. Alot of people say I have never had any problem with a Fram but there is a good chance they could have. If you can get a 150,000 mile out of a engine with a Fram how long would it have lasted with a quality filter like a Wix.

ah, like all those little abrasive micron somethings that are getting through, again and again. Quietly abrading away the rings, injectors, bearings, etc.
That's a really good point.

 

[Soundguy]

are people really getting less than 150k-m out of engines these days?

can't remember the last vehicle I have had that I did not sell, running, and head near 200k.

I know my 98 dodge ram i sold to work( still running every day ) is over 200k.. and it got a steady diet of walmart 10w30 and fram filters.. unless something was cheaper.. and if it was cheaper.. it got that. ( supertech filter or purolater are sometimes cheaper then fram at walmart ).

This isn't the 50's where 50k menat a rebuild.. or the 70's where 100k meant it was worn out if still running.

 

[mikehaugen]

are people really getting less than 150k-m out of engines these days?

can't remember the last vehicle I have had that I did not sell, running, and head near 200k.

I know my 98 dodge ram i sold to work( still running every day ) is over 200k.. and it got a steady diet of walmart 10w30 and fram filters.. unless something was cheaper.. and if it was cheaper.. it got that. ( supertech filter or purolater are sometimes cheaper then fram at walmart ).

This isn't the 50's where 50k menat a rebuild.. or the 70's where 100k meant it was worn out if still running.

that's funny, my dad's '98 ram (with 5.9 gas) had a broken speedo for a few years and he drives a lot of miles. He estimates around 350k with only pennzoil dino oil and basic fram filters. No engine work, but had trans rebuilt around 250k and some other drivetrain work.

 

[PoorMansCat]

If you ever DO see a "filter test" online, by all means post a link to it. Absolutely NONE of the cut-'em-open-and-peek-inside filter comparison websites have done anything that remotely resembles testing.

What other product do we allow someone else, (without experience, expertise, or testing equipment), to "evaluate" for us so we can base our purchasing decisions upon their say-so....when an entity WITH experience, expertise, and lots of testing equipment has stamped their seal of approval on said product already?

yeah.. everything ive ever seen was simply construction and surface area comparisons... no media testing. I use micron ratings efficiency and performance history to determine what filter to use, hence the Motorcraft, Donaldson, and Cat filters..

 

[brokenot]

SAE, etc sets specs, but I have very little faith that the dealership's "house filter" is set to any spec

The SAE doesn't "set" the specs, engine manufacturers do. The SAE tests filters to see whether those specs set by engine manufacturers are met.

As for a dealership's "house filter", we're a dealer for several lines of equipment....and a lot of it is expensive stuff. There is no way we would intentionally install a cheap filter in the hope that it would generate some engine work revenue later on. I seriously doubt that goes on anywhere. A lot of people read these posts, and the simple fact that that was even mentioned means that somebody is going to repeat it, and whoever they repeat it to...will tell someone else. Before long, it will have gained a similar amount of credibility as the "oil filter comparison sites" seem to enjoy.

If anyone would like to see whether that theory has any merit, they could most certainly visit any dealership they'd like and ASK to have the "house filter" installed on their vehicle or equipment, or they could buy one at the parts counter and carry it out the door. It will have a brand name/part number/etc. on it that makes it identifiable. I don't think it would be too hard to do a little research and see if it received a pass or fail from the SAE.

I'm betting comfortably on "pass".

 

[crazyal]

Unless you know the first piece of basic information everything else is useless. How much filtering must a filter do over it's life? It's like buying a propane tank full of fuel and then replace it after an hour of use. As long as the tank doesn't run out of fuel then it has done it's job. If buying a tank with twice the fuel but gets changed in the same amount of time makes you feel better then so be it.

I've heard countless "my next door neighbor's cousin's daughter's hairdresser's uncle" had an engine fail because of a bad filter. Yet none of them have any details. I love the people who make a website giving personal opinions about what they see. The part I love the best is when they say "Fram uses cardboard". I have yet to hear a single person come up with factual evidence or scientific fact why cardboard designed to be immersed in oil will not work for the life of the filter. Sure metal may last longer but what good is using something that will lasts say 8 times longer than the life of the oil over a lower cost part that will only last 4 times longer?

 

[94BULLITT]

If Fram filters are so good why don't the OE's use them?

 

[crazyal]

I couldn't answer that. Why does Toyota use Denso? Why does Ford use Motorcraft? Etc. There use to be a time when new cars would require the oil to be changed after 1000 or 1500 miles, the break in period. Now they seam to be fine with 3000. I would assume that the MFGS would want a filter that would catch any filings that didn't get cleaned out when the engine was made or during the initial break in period. Or it could be that Fram wasn't the low bidder. Maybe Fram doesn't want to deal with OEMs. Who knows.

 

[daugen]

The SAE doesn't "set" the specs, engine manufacturers do. The SAE tests filters to see whether those specs set by engine manufacturers are met.

As for a dealership's "house filter", we're a dealer for several lines of equipment....and a lot of it is expensive stuff. There is no way we would intentionally install a cheap filter in the hope that it would generate some engine work revenue later on. I seriously doubt that goes on anywhere. A lot of people read these posts, and the simple fact that that was even mentioned means that somebody is going to repeat it, and whoever they repeat it to...will tell someone else. Before long, it will have gained a similar amount of credibility as the "oil filter comparison sites" seem to enjoy.

If anyone would like to see whether that theory has any merit, they could most certainly visit any dealership they'd like and ASK to have the "house filter" installed on their vehicle or equipment, or they could buy one at the parts counter and carry it out the door. It will have a brand name/part number/etc. on it that makes it identifiable. I don't think it would be too hard to do a little research and see if it received a pass or fail from the SAE.

I'm betting comfortably on "pass".

Ok, perhaps I overstated, and you are right, things get repeated without vetting. It is my experience that auto dealers do NOT use "name brand" filters at times. I have pulled filters off my cars without any markings on them at all, real
no names. Now my Kubota dealer wouldn't put a non OEM filter on my tractor to save himself. So who makes Kubota filters? Some of them are wildly expensive, so does that imply/guarantee they are better quality, protect the engine better?

I'd be interested to see what Mercedes, BMW and Audi spec for their filters; the Germans seem to be ultra serious about their engines, even if a Camry four cylinder is likely to outlast them.

So, lesson learned. ASK the brand name of the filter going to be used before it goes on. Pretty simple. I often bring my own so I don't worry about it, though I'm sure the dealer is annoyed that I won't buy their 212 point inspection
program for $200 instead of a $50 oil change with synthetic.

 

[Soundguy]

I couldn't answer that. Why does Toyota use Denso? Why does Ford use Motorcraft? Etc. There use to be a time when new cars would require the oil to be changed after 1000 or 1500 miles, the break in period. Now they seam to be fine with 3000. I would assume that the MFGS would want a filter that would catch any filings that didn't get cleaned out when the engine was made or during the initial break in period. Or it could be that Fram wasn't the low bidder. Maybe Fram doesn't want to deal with OEMs. Who knows.

speaking of filter oem brands.. etc.

I was picking up an oil filter for my yukon.. pf61 is the ac delco OE filter. it was 40 cents cheaper than the purolater and the fram filter setting next to it on the shelf.

Looking at the filter.. feeling it.. weight..e tc. I'd BET the fram extra guard ( which was the most expensive of the 3 ) was a better filter. but heck.. i figure you can't go wrong with the ac delco filter in the book for your truck.. etc.

On ford. look at the fl1a motorcraft filter. it crosses to ph8a fram, st8a supertech.. napa 1515 auto application, 1452 other appl..e tc.

the fl1a can be had for 2.99$ in some places.... that's cheaper than any of it's cross reference.