Firewood Market

[turnkey4099]

Well, not exactly. Ricks and Face Cords describe an amount of wood 4 feet high and 8 feet wide, or IOW the "face" of a full cord. But only two dimensions. The length of the pieces is not explicit or part of the definition although 16 to 18 inch and 24 inch are common lengths being sold. Thus a face cord of 16 inch pieces would be the equivalent of 1/3 of a full cord. 24 inch pieces would equal half a full cord.



Yet this pretty simple measurement is often the source of all manner of debate. Never made sense to me but while some insist that full cord measurements are the only way to describe firewood, to me and I'd think most home burners buying wood can more easily envision a 4x8 pile of their firewood than a fraction of a 128 cubic feet amount of wood.

You think "most home burners" can picture a 4' x 8' pile of wood but can't picture a 1/3 cord which is 4' x 8' x 16"? Weird.

Nobody sells wood by "fraction of 128 cu ft".

As for a defviniton of "rick" that is a pile of wood 1 stick wide by however long and high you want to pile it. Thus 3 sticks in a pile is a rick.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Fire wood is sold by the cord here because that is the law. You can sell a half or third cord, but you have to advertise it that way, not as a rick, face cord, etc.

Yep but the problem is that there is no enforcement unless a complaint is lodged against a seller. Most states specifically say in their codes that cords or fractions thereof are the only legal measures and some even go further to specifically state that "rick, rank, face cord, load, etc" are banned.

If poeple would just give up those measures that were originally developed to scam customeers there would be a whole lot less misunderstandigns in threads discussing firewood.

"I cut, split and stacked 4 cords yesterday" but when questioned find he meant 4 face cords and then are asked to define what his "face cord" is.

Harry

Harry K

 

[ultrarunner]

Looks like wood ranges anywhere from free to a couple of hundred a cord in TBN land.

Firewood market has all but vanished since the bans on new fireplaces/stoves along with the regional smoke police patrolling and responding to anonymous complaints on no burn days.

Unleaded Gas started in California... I wonder how long it will be before wood heat is banned nationwide?

 

[dave1949]

Any elm I harvest is only under protest - I have to take that to get the better stuff. As for splitting it? I don't even try manually, it goes staight to the splitter. Even then I wish the splitter had a high knife projection on the wedge to cut all those strings.

Harry K

Trying is the high price of being an incurable optimist. :laughing:

It isn't bad burning wood, I don't have much of it, and hate to let it go to waste. I don't have a powered splitter, so I usually cut it into small chunks with the saw, or put it on the outdoor fire pit pile.

 

[dave1949]

Looks like wood ranges anywhere from free to a couple of hundred a cord in TBN land.

Firewood market has all but vanished since the bans on new fireplaces/stoves along with the regional smoke police patrolling and responding to anonymous complaints on no burn days.

Unleaded Gas started in California... I wonder how long it will be before wood heat is banned nationwide?

I don't see that happening. You would have a better chance of taking a Mainer's gun than his wood pile, and that chance would be slim to none. I think areas that suffer inversions that trap the smoke for days have a concern to deal with. Even areas with inversions could allow wood burning with the right wood fuels and stoves. If you have people that are burning standard fireplaces for a bit of local warmth and ambiance, that is a problem.

 

[clemsonfor]

That's a face cord, there is usually 3 face cords per cord to get you close, but still short on a true cord.

 

[ultrarunner]

Up before they started the wood burning restrictions... there was an un-official wood drop off lot where trimmers would unload rounds free for the taking. Lots of the guys would go there and get their firewood.

The county put a stop to it by posting steep fines for littering... the real reason is the country said it encouraged people to burn wood by making available free wood.

I wrote a letter saying it was grass roots recycling and it didn't cost the county a dime...

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't see that happening. You would have a better chance of taking a Mainer's gun than his wood pile, and that chance would be slim to none. I think areas that suffer inversions that trap the smoke for days have a concern to deal with. Even areas with inversions could allow wood burning with the right wood fuels and stoves. If you have people that are burning standard fireplaces for a bit of local warmth and ambiance, that is a problem.

That's the ironic part... even those with permitted EPA Cat equipped stoves fall under the ban...

Many had protested and the powers that be said it would be a logistical enforcement nightmare to let one neighbor burn and another not based on the model stove.

As to the inversion layer... not really a problem in the much of the banned area which is coastal. The air district, which only covers the Bay Area counties said the real problem is the smoke causes problems a 100 miles away in the foothills... which ironically, do not have to follow the Bay Area restrictions...

I know Olympia WA has also had wood fire bans... maybe, it is just a West Coast thing?

 

[clemsonfor]

Up before they started the wood burning restrictions... there was an un-official wood drop off lot where trimmers would unload rounds free for the taking. Lots of the guys would go there and get their firewood.

The county put a stop to it by posting steep fines for littering... the real reason is the country said it encouraged people to burn wood by making available free wood.

I wrote a letter saying it was grass roots recycling and it didn't cost the county a dime...

Encourages wood burning!! of course it does!! Its carbon neutral I don't see the problem. This is the problem like with gun control you have idiots spouting what they think but are to stupid to realize what their talking about!!

The SAME amout of carbon is released if the wood is burned vs letting it rot in the woods or a dump or the guys yard.

Like the politician that I heard that wanted to ban polymer tipped bullets??? Why those who know anything about ammo and guns, a polymer tipped bullet is not more dangerous than any other type. Full metal jacket bullets actually do less damage to a person when shot vs a lead tipped soft point bullet but yet they want to ban FMJ????

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I've never heard of bans against wood stoves/fireplaces. We often have bans against open burning but I'm sure that's normal in high-risk times.

Hard maple & Oak are the most common here as is "Mixed Hardwood". I generally prefer buying mixed as having some birch etc is nice as an option -- just have to be sure how much is in the load. Measurements are either a "Face Chord" which here should be 1/3 of a real chord but you have to check the lenght of the sticks which can vary from 12" if the guy is trying to cheat you up to 18" sometimes. The other choice is a "Bush Chord" which is really just a proper chord and nowadays, here only used when buying logs not cut & Split. Prices anywhere from $80 face chord picked up to as high as $130 delivered.

 

[clemsonfor]

I've never heard of bans against wood stoves/fireplaces. We often have bans against open burning but I'm sure that's normal in high-risk times.

Hard maple & Oak are the most common here as is "Mixed Hardwood". I generally prefer buying mixed as having some birch etc is nice as an option -- just have to be sure how much is in the load. Measurements are either a "Face Chord" which here should be 1/3 of a real chord but you have to check the lenght of the sticks which can vary from 12" if the guy is trying to cheat you up to 18" sometimes. The other choice is a "Bush Chord" which is really just a proper chord and nowadays, here only used when buying logs not cut & Split. Prices anywhere from $80 face chord picked up to as high as $130 delivered.

Welcome to the republic of California. Yep places there have total bans on stove burning, Also Washington state has stricter emissions standards than the rest of the US. Stoves will specifically say Washington state approved or not.

 

[cqaigy2]

You think "most home burners" can picture a 4' x 8' pile of wood but can't picture a 1/3 cord which is 4' x 8' x 16"? Weird.

Nobody sells wood by "fraction of 128 cu ft".

As for a defviniton of "rick" that is a pile of wood 1 stick wide by however long and high you want to pile it. Thus 3 sticks in a pile is a rick.

Harry K

I'd have to agree

Huh? 3 stick rick? fraction of 128 cu ft? or even 221184 cubic inches.

As slow as i am, i can probably understand how big 1/2 cord is.

 

[jymbee]

You think "most home burners" can picture a 4' x 8' pile of wood but can't picture a 1/3 cord which is 4' x 8' x 16"? Weird.

I did not say "can't picture". Having sold firewood commercially for years I'm saying that in my experience when answering the question "how much wood do I get" explaing that they get a stack of 16 inch pieces 4 feet high by 8 feet wide is easier to picture than saying one third of a full cord. Of course they're the same thing just that the former is more practical and I always would explain that's 1/3 of a full cord.

Others have pointed out that in some areas, regulations might require the use of the term "cord" in advertising quantities. Good point and that helps standardize marketing/advertising, but virtually all of my customers ordered by face cord.

As for a defviniton of "rick" that is a pile of wood 1 stick wide by however long and high you want to pile it. Thus 3 sticks in a pile is a rick.

Sheesh... now that definition seems like a wood sellers dream! If that's the case, why wouldn't you just say a "pile of wood"?? But, no one around here ever uses the term rick so I won't comment.

When I was selling wood, I'd estimate that the majority of sellers would advertise but not deliver full cords. Standard practice seemed to be to stack two rows on a truck roughly 4x8 feet and call that a cord. They made more $$ in the short term, but some of my best long term customers were from those who realized they were getting ripped off and bought from me.

 

[clemsonfor]

I'd have to agree

Huh? 3 stick rick? fraction of 128 cu ft? or even 221184 cubic inches.

As slow as i am, i can probably understand how big 1/2 cord is.

His point is rick means nothing. Its not an actual measure of anything. It can be regional and have a different definition in different areas. Cord is a defined volume, yet most areas for timber its not legal anymore to sell this way as you can be still taken with old hand scale methods (and board feet is not much better as there are 3 scales of measure there) and cord definitions like solid wood in the cord or cord which means wood and air.

Rick has a definition I am sure but not really a forestry recognized one that I learned in school. People refer to "face cords" and some call a face cord a cord???

 

[Tollster]

Welcome to the republic of California. Yep places there have total bans on stove burning, Also Washington state has stricter emissions standards than the rest of the US. Stoves will specifically say Washington state approved or not.

Ya can't burn wood but ya can burn grass, strange indeed!

 

[hodge]

I just came for dinner (the noon meal in Kentucky). I had been out delivering 3 ricks of wood to Aunt Peggy. I was just curious as to how things are done in other parts of the country. The wood I delivered was 99% red oak with a little poplar. A poplar limb fell out when I cut the tree. The wood wasn't "seasoned" but the tree was dead when I cut it. Locally a rick will measure 4' X 8' X 16"-18". It is normally considered, but is not, a half cord. The reason for this is most stoves in my area will not handle a 24" stick of wood hence 16-18". Firewood here is rarely sold by the cord, just by the rick. Most folks who heat with wood use 15-20 ricks a season. I sold her the wood, delivered and stacked in her wood shed for $30 a rick. She lives less than 5 miles from me. Normally it would have been $40-50. The firewood of choice is ash but it's getting harder to come by. Red and white oak are very popular as well as hickory and cherry. Trash wood are popular, beech, gum, sycamore, maple, locust, sassafras, persimmon, pine, cedar and cottonwood. As a curious point I cut a little wood for my wifes grandmother years ago. She had a little "Ben Franklin" style wood stove in the parlor (living room) but it could only take a 12-14" stick of wood. It takes forever to cut wood in 12'' pieces! Tell me a little of how you guys do it.

We have a fair amount of acreage, and have more than enough dead and down. We have never had to buy wood. It is sold by the cord around here, but that is a relative measurement. From what I've seen, it runs about $100-$120 a pickup load.
I have never considered locust as trash wood- I will burn it any day of the week.

 

[clemsonfor]

locust is one of the best woods you can get, so I have read over on the hearth.com. I have about 25cuft that I cut this fall and have put up for next year. it was standing dead I think 2 years, and was already around 20%MC when I split it. So if it gets crazy cold this year I may pull it out and burn it this year, well some of it. The stuff is dense as all get out, and density is what makes heat.

 

[ultrarunner]

Welcome to the republic of California. Yep places there have total bans on stove burning, Also Washington state has stricter emissions standards than the rest of the US. Stoves will specifically say Washington state approved or not.

Figures my two locations would have restrictions on heating with wood.

Maybe I need to move to Nevada or Idaho?

It's kind of ironic to haul oak to the Landfill.

When I worked in Austria I learned each home much have a wood capable chimney so people have the means to keep warm should the supply or gas, oil or electricity fail...

It's a small country and yet people there think about preparing for disasters...

My colleagues thought only in America would people pay to haul oak to a landfill...

 

[DKCDKC]

I too find locust a good firewood... Lots of energy packed in a small space. But it the tree/log is 3 inch in diameter or more and relatively straight, I keep it for posts. Great posts. Some my dad put in in the 60s here are still sound. Funny, sometimes we would cut it green for posts, sink it and attach the wire, and the darn locust would sprout from the post.

I've got more firewood than I can use, so I never buy... Although I do donate some to the Salvation Army. Around here almost all firewood seems to be bought by the pickup, but you do have to ask the size of the pickup.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've got more firewood than I can use, so I never buy... Although I do donate some to the Salvation Army. Around here almost all firewood seems to be bought by the pickup, but you do have to ask the size of the pickup.

Can you tell me more about donating to the Salvation Army?

Do you deliver the wood cut and split or make if available for pick-up?