Found a coyote, I think

   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#423  
Dave,

Nice article. Thanks.

It may explain why Sandy is so friendly and unafraid of people. She had constant interaction with us and others from about three days old. Plus with our other dogs and our cat. She loves riding in the truck and we started that at a few days old too.

Like the wolves mentioned, she was walking in a few days and developed much faster than I've seen with domestic dogs.

She never seemed especially interested in pleasing us, but always interested in interacting with us as a family or as playmates, pack mates. Because of this she knows many words and would do what we said a lot of the time. She also taught us her ways through her actions and mannerisms. So we knew how to respond to her and what she wanted. Living together under these circumstances meant we could work, hunt and play together. Respond to each other. Face new situations together. Trust. Predict. Anticipate. Develop habits.

We put a collar on her at four weeks and a few days later started with a leash. This may have been near the end of her window of socialization. At first she balked, but soon got used to it and then the leash. In a few days she was dragging the leash all around and for the rest of her time with us she had no problem with either. Not that she always walked well while being led on a leash, but she was comfortable wearing it and the collar.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#424  
Mace,

Those pictures look like Sandy, but it's actually one of the Mexican Grey Wolves at Southwest. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

Look at the picture Randy posted, back a few posts. Look at her eyes and ears.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #425  
Dave,

Nice article. Thanks.

It may explain why Sandy is so friendly and unafraid of people. She had constant interaction with us and others from about three days old. Plus with our other dogs and our cat. She loves riding in the truck and we started that at a few days old too.

Like the wolves mentioned, she was walking in a few days and developed much faster than I've seen with domestic dogs.

She never seemed especially interested in pleasing us, but always interested in interacting with us as a family or as playmates, pack mates. Because of this she knows many words and would do what we said a lot of the time. She also taught us her ways through her actions and mannerisms. So we knew how to respond to her and what she wanted. Living together under these circumstances meant we could work, hunt and play together. Respond to each other. Face new situations together. Trust. Predict. Anticipate. Develop habits.

We put a collar on her at four weeks and a few days later started with a leash. This may have been near the end of her window of socialization. At first she balked, but soon got used to it and then the leash. In a few days she was dragging the leash all around and for the rest of her time with us she had no problem with either. Not that she always walked well while being led on a leash, but she was comfortable wearing it and the collar.

Glad you enjoyed it. When I ran across it, I thought of Sandy and you.

Dog trainers believe there are succeeding age periods, beyond the initial 1-2 months of puppyhood, when dogs are susceptible to developing fear and avoidance responses. This may explain why some dogs are afraid of thunder, or gun shy, and others are not. If exposed to a loud crack of lightning or gun fire during one of those susceptible periods, they become imprinted with that stimulus and the fear may last forever.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #426  
Mace,

Those pictures look like Sandy, but it's actually one of the Mexican Grey Wolves at Southwest. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

Look at the picture Randy posted, back a few posts. Look at her eyes and ears.

Oh gosh! Now that you mention it, it's so obvious! :eek:

Sorry Sandy!
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #427  
Oh gosh! Now that you mention it, it's so obvious! :eek:

Sorry Sandy!
That's kind of funny, i just thought you were posting a random picture of animals.

Interesting article about the wolves. Kind of reminds me of a dog i had some years ago. The mother of my pup was from Japan living in a snowbank, the father was an elk hound, i think. It was the smartest dog i'd ever seen, about 70lb buff colored looked something like a small Akita. It didn't fawn over people but did pay a lot of attention to what was going on. An example, one day while visiting my in laws, they became concerned that he might bother the neighbors dog. So i went outside and said, "stay up on the deck" and he just ran over and jumped up to the deck and wandered around but didn't get off the deck. He would only listen to me and completely ignored other peoples commands, until i met my Wife. One day when we had just started dating, she had to go into work on a saturday at a place in south seattle, kind of isolated area so i told her to take my dog with her. I said to my dog, do what she says, she called him to the car and away they went to work. She said he did exactly what she said and was a real happy to have him there. Especially when her boss came into the office and met my dog face to face. She said my dog just stared at him and he asked if he bites and she said, only when i tell him to. :)
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #428  
Oh gosh! Now that you mention it, it's so obvious! :eek:

Sorry Sandy!
That's kind of funny, i just thought you were posting a random picture of animals.

Interesting article about the wolves. Kind of reminds me of a dog i had some years ago. The mother of my pup was from Japan living in a snowbank, the father was an elk hound, i think. It was the smartest dog i'd ever seen, about 70lb buff colored looked something like a small Akita. It didn't fawn over people but did pay a lot of attention to what was going on. An example, one day while visiting my in laws, they became concerned that he might bother the neighbors dog. So i went outside and said, "stay up on the deck" and he just ran over and jumped up to the deck and wandered around but didn't get off the deck. He would only listen to me and completely ignored other peoples commands, until i met my Wife. One day when we had just started dating, she had to go into work on a saturday at a place in south seattle, kind of isolated area so i told her to take my dog with her. I said to my dog, do what she says, she called him to the car and away they went to work. She said he did exactly what she said and was a real happy to have him there. Especially when her boss came into the office and met my dog face to face. She said my dog just stared at him and he asked if he bites and she said, only when i tell him to. :)
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #429  
Dave The post was interesting I learned a few things I didn't know about my wolves, I would have never dreamed that they start their socializing before their eyes are open, it does make sense though.
John I think I have to agree the probably made a big difference in Sandy. And possibly had a hand in why mine are the way they are, we didn't have ours from birth but the people we got them from took real good care of them and had alot of little kids running around. I don't worry about Shadow being alone with the Grandkids, even the newest at about 2 months old, she has been the typical motherhen with the kidseven being 9 yrs old she still will laydown with the baby and protect her. Weasel is weasel he is good with them for awhile, then when it starts of overwhem him and he goes to his cage to escape. He preferrs to watch them, but just out of reach.

Randy
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#430  
Interesting article about the wolves. Kind of reminds me of a dog i had some years ago. The mother of my pup was from Japan living in a snowbank, the father was an elk hound, i think. It was the smartest dog i'd ever seen, about 70lb buff colored looked something like a small Akita. It didn't fawn over people but did pay a lot of attention to what was going on. An example, one day while visiting my in laws, they became concerned that he might bother the neighbors dog. So i went outside and said, "stay up on the deck" and he just ran over and jumped up to the deck and wandered around but didn't get off the deck. He would only listen to me and completely ignored other peoples commands, until i met my Wife. One day when we had just started dating, she had to go into work on a saturday at a place in south seattle, kind of isolated area so i told her to take my dog with her. I said to my dog, do what she says, she called him to the car and away they went to work. She said he did exactly what she said and was a real happy to have him there. Especially when her boss came into the office and met my dog face to face. She said my dog just stared at him and he asked if he bites and she said, only when i tell him to. :)

Great story. Sometimes they prove to be much smarter than I think they are. And very aware of who's the Alpha. Wanting to please, fit into a society and work as a team, seems to be what makes them so successful in their world and in ours. It's so easy to take them for granted, but they don't do that with us.

The sense that they are just living a normal life, like us, and alongside us, is really touching. Suddenly I realize how much respect they deserve. They are thriving in the human world and keeping their own identity. Making the most of every moment. Making adjustments to fit in. Imagine how difficult it would be if the tables were turned and we were living in the dog world. They're so easy to please and ask for so little, and yet give so much just because that's who they are.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#431  
Randy,

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get our next dog at a very young age. Just a few days old, like Sandy. Then make sure we introduce her to various influential events at the right time. Shooting, might be a good example, as Bei Bei cannot go plinking with me because she is so afraid of loud noises. Other examples might be, riding in the Jeep, being introduced to people, cats and other dogs etc. Plus just developing a bond very early.

In my reading and experience, it seems like dogs that are closer to the wild ones, like Akitas for instance, are less interested in pleasing humans and live more by their own code. They are great dogs, but live more as equals or more independently, or require a stronger leader. This was a trait we saw in Sandy. We all got along perfectly well, but she wasn't interested in doing tricks, and conversely, we learned from her and helped her. Again, as I've tried to convey, we were a family with diverse members.

It might be hard to find someone with pups that would let one go at a few days old though. I'll just have to get them to read about Sandy first. Heee heee heee. With the normal timing of 8-12 weeks to get a puppy, it seems like a lot of valuable time has been lost.

How old were your dogs when you got them?

You've mentioned Weasel before and how he moves away from the things he gets fed up with. Nice trait. I think you mentioned how much he hates to be brushed and has to go be alone a bit, then comes back to tell you he forgives you. Funny.

I really enjoy hearing about them and realizing they have become such good and trusted family members with so much personality.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #432  
John I believe Shadow was 8 weeks old and Weasel was turning 6 weeks old. Like I said the people we got them from had a lot of little kids running around and the pups where used to people very early in life.
I also think that it is important to let the animal pick you, it makes the bonding easier. With both of ours we spent time there with all of the pups and chose the one that was interested with us, when we went to get our second my wife had her heart set on a second female, but that wasn't in the cards they hs 3 females and Weasel, non of the females would have nothing to do with us we could catch them and try to make up with them but they would keep scambling off. Weasel was not the same he kept coming to us and crawling all over us, so we brought him home.
We always name our animals by their personality, which Shadow was allways following my wife around, Weasel he was always sticking his nose into everything, trying to weasel his way in, weather it was just in between us sitting on the couch. They all have their own personality, Sahdow thinks she is royalty she lays out on top of the hill and watchs over the neighborhood. Weasel thinks that anyone coming out is here to see him! They both are good with my wife's cats and even guard the chickens, so I think they consider all of them their pack, but shore was funny to watch weasel guard the baby chicks he would lay down beside their pen and they would peck at his foot, he would pull it away only to slid it right back.

Have a good week John

Randy
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#434  
Mace Canute; I would have said that and made like it was what I [I said:
intended[/I] to do! :D

You mean it wasn't? :confused: :laughing:
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #435  
A couple of articles on fear stages in dogs:

The Second Fear Stage of Dogs: What you need to know! | Used Cars, Pets, Jobs, & Real Estate | Blog on Recycler.com

Puppy Development Stages | Wonder Puppy

One of our dogs was playing, running across the yard. She ran into the Weber grill which made a lot noise as it fell over (big dog). She was in the second fear stage time period and ever after would shy away from anything that sounded like clanging metal. She even associated metal objects with her fear and would shy away from anything that looked like a piece of metal.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #437  
   / Found a coyote, I think #438  
bridget bobo sika beagle.jpg

I raised a pair of orphan coyotes a few years ago. They were weaned when I got them and I could never get near them but they loved my dogs. After release, "Bridget" visited every day for about a year. The last time I saw her she had two other coyotes with her. I hope she's doing well :)
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #439  
View attachment 299709

I raised a pair of orphan coyotes a few years ago. They were weaned when I got them and I could never get near them but they loved my dogs. After release, "Bridget" visited every day for about a year. The last time I saw her she had two other coyotes with her. I hope she's doing well :)
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #440  
If wolves becoming dogs fed off human refuse (poop even), they would have ingested the gut bacteria present in humans. If that bacteria found a happy home or adapted in the canines, that could have helped digest grains. ??? I read that humans have a unique gut bacteria makeup, like fingerprints. There would be many "flavors" of gut bacteria available to the wolf/dogs.

Combined with epigenetics: Epigenetics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia there could be many pathways of adaptation.
In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype, caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics.

It refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence. Examples of such modifications are DNA methylation and histone modification, both of which serve to regulate gene expression without altering the underlying DNA sequence. These changes may remain through cell divisions for the remainder of the cell's life and may also last for multiple generations. However, there is no change in the underlying DNA sequence of the organism;[1] instead, non-genetic factors cause the organism's genes to behave (or "express themselves") differently.[2] There are objections to the use of the term epigenetic to describe chemical modification of histone, since it remains unknown whether or not these modifications are heritable.[3]
 

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