Hydraulic Fluid Recommendations??

[ritcheyvs]

I'm approaching the 400 hour service on my DK45S, which includes changing hydraulic fluid according to the service manual. My local Walmart has Shell Spirax S4TXM in stock and the local Tractor supply has their usual stuff. What do TBN folks think/recommend? Is one oil significantly better than another? Does the oil really need to be changed? The DK45S has wet brakes and a wet clutches for PTO and 4WD but the rest is just gears and bearings.

 

[rjwerth]

I'd suggest doing a search through this forum: Oil, Fuel & Lubricants

My dealer's mechanic suggested the generic stuff at Sam's Club...but mine doesn't carry it so I bought the Traveller Premium at TSC. Seems like the general consensus is that most UTFs out there works just fine. There are a few that don't do as well in the very cold like the cheaper stuff at TSC...I forget the name...as they are a bit thicker. Other than that, it is hard to go wrong.

 

[IndyIan]

I tried the Spirax S4TXM in my tractor at the 50hr service. I didn't really like how it worked in either the front axle or in the transmission. The fluid darkened up in the front axle sight glass and was fairly dark when I drained it from the transmission with only 70hrs on it. I switched out to Chevron THF 1000 which is what my dealer uses and recommends. Nothing miraculous happened after the change to the Chevron but I hope it comes out cleaner(meaning less wear) on the next change. If you read the specs between the two, the Chevron has a higher HTHS rating than the Spirax so perhaps the Spirax started to thin out too much with heavy box blade work I was doing?
I wouldn't put house brand THF in, unless you are really tight for money and don't plan on keeping the keeping the tractor forever. If Chevron could make their THF for half the price, they probably wouldn't charge twice as much as the house brands. I'm sure there are lots of tractors running fine with cheap THF but probably if you start looking at high high hour machines, more will have got there with good fluids, filters, and regular maintenance.

 

[CJONE]

After seeing the crap and how dirty the fluid was that came out of mine at the 50hour mark, if yours was not changed I would. I used Mobile in mine but any goodgrade of fluid that meets the spec will work. Cheap clean fluid is better than dirty expensive stuff. CJ

 

[landedakioti]

When i did my 50 hr serves i called a dealer because i was having a hard time finding what was in the manual. The dealer told me as long as it meets JD 303. So i went to case 15 gallons cost me 450.00

 

[CJONE]

When i did my 50 hr serves i called a dealer because i was having a hard time finding what was in the manual. The dealer told me as long as it meets JD 303. So i went to case 15 gallons cost me 450.00

WOW and I thought 250 was too much!!

 

[Coyote machine]

To me it's a peace of mind thing. My dealer has been around since before time began and says there is NO need to change the fluid unless it is color changed, contaminated etc. the Kioti expensive HST filters ought to remove any particals from the UTF as part of their job as a filter. Changing them when required is probably more important than swapping out 15 gallons of UTF.
It's just one opinion among many......

 

[bvahjen]

Here is another way to look at this whole hydraulic fluid changing thing. One approach is to change it based on clock hours, another is to never change it (believe me it happens) and another way is to send a sample to Blackstone laboratories and for about 25 bucks they will send you a report and tell you if it needs to be changed. That is what the pros do. If you are looking at hundreds to change it, and you gan get more years out of it that is better for the environment and the pocket book. If you love changing things, go for it, but nothing beats data.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here is another way to look at this whole hydraulic fluid changing thing. One approach is to change it based on clock hours, another is to never change it (believe me it happens) and another way is to send a sample to Blackstone laboratories and for about 25 bucks they will send you a report and tell you if it needs to be changed. That is what the pros do. If you are looking at hundreds to change it, and you gan get more years out of it that is better for the environment and the pocket book. If you love changing things, go for it, but nothing beats data.

Good solution to knowing what is in the oil and it's condition. Takes the worry out of what could otherwise be a waste of money, if the UTF fluid is 'clean'.
When I ran my foreign auto store we used to do this with oil from diesel Mercedes; a new owner of a used car might want to know general engine condition.
Serves as a baseline for future service frequency and wear over time too. Think I'll do it to mine, since I'm at the 400+ hr mark too.

 

[chieff]

I am not a full time farmer but my farm is my second job and income so I put quite a few hours on the tractors each year. I have an older massey with close to 3,000 hrs a 45 up kubota with over 1.500 hrs and 95hp kubota with a little over 300 hrs. I have changed fluids according to hr recommendations of the manufacture and use the TSC premium universal udt at about $40 per 5 gallon. I have never had a problem and plan on keeping my tractors a lifetime. The TSC fluid is certified for use by all major manufactures. In my opinion many people pay way to much for x brand of fluids. Change on manf. time intervals and you will be fine.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I appreciate all the advice. I think I'll go with the Shell Spirax S4TXM. The decal on my tractor says to use Shell Donax TD and the service manual lists Donax TD as one of four recommended UTFs. Siprax S4TXM replaced Donax TD according to Shell, this may just be a name change as far as I can tell. Apparently Shell now calls many different kinds of lubricants Spirax xxxx, where xxxx is a cryptic string of characters, so the S4TXM is critical in defining the particular lubricant. The shell facts sheet:
http://www-static.shell.com/static/...pdf/lubricants/applications/Spirax S4 TXM.pdf
identifies several manufacturer's specs (like John Deere) that S4TXM satisfies. On the other hand, I can't find any similar data on the Tractor Supply Traveller Premium UTF (just general statements). The TSC product may be just fine but I decided against it because TSC provides so little data. I'm sure the Mobil product is great but I don't know a convenient local source.

By the way, I notice the UTF left a darker film on the lower part of the dipstick so I'm just going to change the UTF even if it might test OK. The selling dealer (bought second hand) said he did the 50 hour service but I can't be sure that included new UTF. Also, I note that the decal and an older owner's manual say to change the UTF at 300 hours but a newer owner's manual and the shop manual say to change at 400 hr intervals. In any case, I think it's time for new UTF.

 

[IndyIan]

I am not a full time farmer but my farm is my second job and income so I put quite a few hours on the tractors each year. I have an older massey with close to 3,000 hrs a 45 up kubota with over 1.500 hrs and 95hp kubota with a little over 300 hrs. I have changed fluids according to hr recommendations of the manufacture and use the TSC premium universal udt at about $40 per 5 gallon. I have never had a problem and plan on keeping my tractors a lifetime. The TSC fluid is certified for use by all major manufactures. In my opinion many people pay way to much for x brand of fluids. Change on manf. time intervals and you will be fine.

The tractor manufacturer specs listed on the pail are not granted or tested by the manufacturer. JD or Kubota or CAT doesn't test the oil for TSC or shell or chevron. You are relying on the hyd. oil manufacturer to test their oil to make sure it meets the specs they say it meets as there is no independent testing body. For motor oil you can buy the cheapest stuff you can find with the API seal on it, as the API keeps track of whose oil meets which spec and even do some spot checks taking oil off the store shelf and testing it themselves. The API has found that some budget brands don't meet the specs they list on the bottle
Probably the TSC premium is fine but I'd really stay away from suspiciously cheap mystery brands. Good base stock oil and additives cost pretty much the same for any oil blender so they are cutting corners somewhere to get a lower price.

 

[lockhaven]

many name brand oils are the same as the "generic" brands, the money spent on advertizing is what runs the cost up on name brand oils or any product for that matter.

 

[ritcheyvs]

many name brand oils are the same as the "generic" brands, the money spent on advertizing is what runs the cost up on name brand oils or any product for that matter.

This and IndyIan's comments may certainly be true but since TSC won't even tell what specs their oil meets or who made it, I think I'll go with a major brand that does (particularly considering that S4TXM is what Kioti spec'd). Others say Warren Oil makes the TSC stuff and some reviews even list specs TSC oil will meet, but that's not the same as TSC saying it, IMO. I don't care that much about the cost (although the Wally World price on Spirax isn't bad), $100 more or less for something that will last me 3-5 years is no factor.

 

[rjwerth]

TSC does give a long list of oils theirs is "Recommended to replace." I suppose one could read that differently from meeting certain specs. I'm guessing they sell a heck of a lot of that product so I'd imagine that if it sucked, we'd hear about it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

TSC does give a long list of oils theirs is "Recommended to replace." I suppose one could read that differently from meeting certain specs. I'm guessing they sell a heck of a lot of that product so I'd imagine that if it sucked, we'd hear about it.

I must be dense as I was unable to locate such a list. at least online.

 

[Coyote machine]

I must be dense as I was unable to locate such a list. at least online.

From google search: tsc utf

under hypertext link "description"

Traveller® Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid is a specially formulated, premium multigrade (SAE 10W-20) fluid blended with the highest quality lubricating oils and the most technological advanced additive system. Provides superior protection and performance for modern farm equipment employing a common sump to lubricate hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, wet brakes, hydraulics and final drive gears.

Formulated with the latest available technology to offer:

Low temperature pumpability
Protection against brake chatter
Excellent thermal stability
Greater protection against gear wear
Recommended as a replacement fluid for models from AGCO, Case, Caterpillar, John Deere, International Harvester, Massey Ferguson, White, Yanmar and many more
Hydraulic Fluid
2 gal.
Guaranteed to meet performance requirements

 

[ritcheyvs]

Well, sure. I saw that. But what models? What specs?

 

[IndyIan]

From google search: tsc utf

under hypertext link "description"

Traveller® Premium Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid is a specially formulated, premium multigrade (SAE 10W-20) fluid blended with the highest quality lubricating oils and the most technological advanced additive system. Provides superior protection and performance for modern farm equipment employing a common sump to lubricate hydrostatic transmissions, differentials, wet brakes, hydraulics and final drive gears.

Formulated with the latest available technology to offer:

Low temperature pumpability
Protection against brake chatter
Excellent thermal stability
Greater protection against gear wear
Recommended as a replacement fluid for models from AGCO, Case, Caterpillar, John Deere, International Harvester, Massey Ferguson, White, Yanmar and many more
Hydraulic Fluid
2 gal.
Guaranteed to meet performance requirements

Basically what they have written means nothing. They have told you the weight and that it may meet some specs for some equipment but they won't say which ones. Also a 10W20 hyd oil is only a 75W80 gear oil when you convert the weights... Most brand name THF's are 10W30 which is a little better when the temperatures and transmission loads climb.
The do sell alot of it and it can't be that terrible but I doubt there's anything "premium" about it. I doubt many fleet and construction equipment maintenance managers use it either.

 

[Coyote machine]

Man, are you guys for real? These fluids aren't blood for a transfusion. You can spend your money any way you want, BUT if TSC utf isn't up to your high standards then don't use it. It says recommended as a replacement fluid for models FROM argo, case, cat, deere, etc. and many more.
Its clearly not weasel urine, and you agree it flies off the shelves at stores all across the nation, so logically if it was so bad people would be having problems with it and it wouldn't be sold as much as it is.
If I recall without looking it up, Kioti allows for 75-90W gear oil in front diff, OR utf.
And speculation about what fleet managers do says nothing but a wild ... guess.
Where is hard data showing where it has done damage of any kind to various tractors over a long time-frame? Now if you could show that I'd stay away from it like the plague.:2cents: