Outside Wood Boiler

[bubbles]

Im looking to buy a outside wood boiler this fall. I am tired of buying propane to heat with but there are so many diffrent makers and models to chose from. I need some good feed back on the pros and cons. I know i need to burn seasoned wood which is no problem. around hear in southern KY. there is a shaver, taylor and a central boiler dealer I really need some opinions.

 

[mikehaugen]

I have looked at the central boilers and they seemed ok. In southern KY I would imagine it would take a long time to make up the cost of an outdoor boiler. If you are getting wood for free, then I guess it would be less. Here in northern IL, I think I could pay one off in 3 years or so.

I am now looking into wood add-on furnaces as they are cheaper and you don't have to go outside to fill it. Of course then that leaves the mess in your house and you have the hassle of having to run triple wall chimney through your house. And of course these only work if you already have for air heating already. The boiler is good if you already use a boiler I guess. Just a thought.

 

[jefwyn]

Im looking to buy a outside wood boiler this fall. I am tired of buying propane to heat with but there are so many diffrent makers and models to chose from. I need some good feed back on the pros and cons. I know i need to burn seasoned wood which is no problem. around hear in southern KY. there is a shaver, taylor and a central boiler dealer I really need some opinions.

I have a classic central boiler and it is great. I heat the house(3500 sq ft 1832 farm house) and my water. The classic is not epa rated and does smoke a bit when first loaded, however I think the smoke issue is a little over blown. If your not right on top of your neighbors it's not bad. It is very simple to use, I load it twice a day, but most days I could get away with one. The down side is they use a lot of wood, but if you have a free wood source, who cares. We keep between 72 and 75 degrees all winter and the wife loves that.

 

[nybirdman]

No reason to burn "seasoned" wood in an outside boiler,they work better with green wood.My son has a Central,burns about 30 cord a year in upstate NY.Central makes a more efficent model for more money but is only suppose to burn 10-12 cords per year.If you have to buy wood.................may not be the way to go.

 

[Storm56]

I have a Central Boiler since 2004. I heat my 1900 sq ft home, hot water, spa, 900 sq ft attached garage as well as my 5000 sq ft pole building with about 12 cords a season. If I did not heat the pole building I am sure I could get by for about 8 1/2 cord. If your son is burning 30 cord there is something amiss. Any chance he is talking face cord? That would make sense.

Seasoned wood is far better than trying to burn green wood. Maybe that is why he appears to be burning so much. Seasoned wood produces FAR less smoke and you are not wasting energy burning the moisture out of the wood. Plus we need to keep as low a profile as possible as far as smoke is concerned, the less smoke the better. The greenies are hard at work trying to shut us down.

 

[dave1949]

The green wood in outdoor boilers thing--everything I have ever read says Storm56 is right, burn seasoned wood. Green wood has to have the moisture cooked out of it which reduces efficiency.

On the other hand, the guy I hire for excavator work swears green is better. His outdoor boiler heats his house, his MIL's house and his workshop. His wood is free as he collects it in 20 foot lengths that fit into his dumptruck from his various jobs. There are very few excavator jobs that don't involve trees here :laughing: He takes it all, soft or hard wood and de-branches the logs onsite using the excavator bucket with the thumb.

I am curious why people have come to think green is better in these boilers. Any thoughts?

 

[bcp]

Outside wood boiler?

Doesn't matter if you boil your wood outside or inside, it is still too tough to eat.

Makes it easier to bend, though.



Bruce

 

[jefwyn]

The green wood in outdoor boilers thing--everything I have ever read says Storm56 is right, burn seasoned wood. Green wood has to have the moisture cooked out of it which reduces efficiency.

On the other hand, the guy I hire for excavator work swears green is better. His outdoor boiler heats his house, his MIL's house and his workshop. His wood is free as he collects it in 20 foot lengths that fit into his dumptruck from his various jobs. There are very few excavator jobs that don't involve trees here :laughing: He takes it all, soft or hard wood and de-branches the logs onsite using the excavator bucket with the thumb.

I am curious why people have come to think green is better in these boilers. Any thoughts?

I have had mine for five years and in my experience, seasoned is better. I think there is less smoke and the cycles are shorter. Wet wood takes longer to get the boiler water up to temp. and therefore less efficient than seasoned.

 

[cqaigy2]

I have a Central Boiler since 2004. I heat my 1900 sq ft home, hot water, spa, 900 sq ft attached garage as well as my 5000 sq ft pole building with about 12 cords a season. If I did not heat the pole building I am sure I could get by for about 8 1/2 cord. If your son is burning 30 cord there is something amiss. Any chance he is talking face cord? That would make sense.

Seasoned wood is far better than trying to burn green wood. Maybe that is why he appears to be burning so much. Seasoned wood produces FAR less smoke and you are not wasting energy burning the moisture out of the wood. Plus we need to keep as low a profile as possible as far as smoke is concerned, the less smoke the better. The greenies are hard at work trying to shut us down.

Sure, makes sense that if your using all that heat energy driving the moisture out. Good call on the smoke as well. It's not the "greenies" that are going to shut you down, it's your neighbors.

 

[Storm56]

Sure, makes sense that if your using all that heat energy driving the moisture out. Good call on the smoke as well. It's not the "greenies" that are going to shut you down, it's your neighbors.

I have no close neighbors so that is not too much of a concern in my case, but you are absolutely correct in that they can make "smoke" for you in return! What I was referring to are the "do gooders", you know, the extreme save the planet environment types. I have no problem with reasonable regulation but this over the top stuff has got to be curtailed a bit. Extremism is problematic whether it is left or right.

 

[sscrob]

I bought a Hardy H2. Use it to heat a 4000 ft house and my hot water also. Paid 6500 for mine with 2 pumps, one for house the other for a future shop. I installed it myself, they are pretty simple. Brother in-law sells Heatmor now and they look like good units too. I've read bad stuff about Shaver stoves, CB and Taylor are ok from what I've seen.

 

[jpm1]

I have a "Classic" outside Central Boiler that is not EPA certified and to be honest i really dont care either. I have had one for 4 years now and its great! in fact we have 8 of them in our family. Ours doesn't eat wood like people would think, their very easy to tend to and the mess is all outside and risk of a chimney fire is non threatening to your house. I burn only seasoned wood but can burn any type of wood (meaning hard wood or soft wood) with the same heating results only thing is soft wood . . .(IE, pine, hemlock . . .ect) leave no coals and when the woods gone so is your heat. I'm heating 1600 sq ft of floor space averagiing 78 degrees and last year burning 9 months i used 12 face cords of 20" wood. i have my own wood, equipment to cut and move it so and OSB is a no brainer for me. When i cleaned my OSB out this june all the ashes fit in the bucket of my Kioti FEL bucket which is a 66"er. it looked like "baby Powder except greyish in color. For me, no one can ever talk me out of my OSB, nor will i allow any one to shut me down from operating it! I LOVE MY CENTRAL OUTSIDE BOILER! ! ! . . .John

 

[mikehaugen]

Maybe some people prefer the green woods because it burns slower and still puts out enough heat for their needs, therefore more time between fill-ups? Just a thought. It is my understanding that "green" wood and "soft" wood creates for creosote, meaning more chimney cleanings. Maybe not as big of an issue with an outdoor boiler.

 

[dmccarty]

I know of an area that has 5-6 outdoor wood burners. They have been in use for at least seven years but I think they are much older. When I pass through that area on a cold morning it can be like driving through bad fog due to the wood smoke. No way would I have one of those things. If a neighbor had one I would be complaining. It really is that bad. I don't know how they put up with the smoke.

Now down the road a bit, a guy put in a shed with a burner a couple of years ago. THAT unit is pretty danged nice. It smokes very little and I have to look real close to see if he is actually burning. On some days I can tell that he just started up the unit or added wood but I doubt most people driving by even notice. It simply does not smoke much. I don't know what they other people are using but this guy splits and drys his wood. I do know that one of the outdoor stoves that smoke alot has a nice wood shed so I think he is burning dried wood.

The flip side to wood burning is the cost. If I had to buy wood at $100 a cord it would just be cheaper to heat the house with power. Around my place a cord, 4x4x8 is about $200. We heat our house with an indoor stove which works real well.

Later,
Dan

 

[mikehaugen]

Around here it's about $120 a face cord! probably in the neighborhood of 250-300 for a cord for hardwood. I don't buy it, but I don't use much yet. I am thinking about wood burner/ boiler but won't unless I am confident I have a cheap/ free source of wood.

 

[Fi-Q]

I ve been reading on boilers for year. And some far what i have learn:

I want a inside boiler ( will be either in detach garage pr boiler barn)

Get a gasification boiler this is a must. Burn seasonned wood.

Go read in the boiler room on hearth.com, tons and tons of info on that specific sbuject

 

[Pete Judd]

I know a local guy that has one he built in the shape of a long box, holds about 10,000 gallons of water. Has no closed top, so does not have to be classified as a "boiler" as never any pressure. It has a large brick lined firebox 24x36, and a blower to help start the fire. The fire/heat excanger tubes are 4 inch tubing, and they enter a box on the far end of the box and another set to come back through the water before the chimney. The door has a thermostat controlled draft, that when the water gets to 205 F it closes and the fire will go out. He heats his old large farm house, greenhouse, all hot water, and their hot tub with it. A lot of firewood around here to be gotten for free, except for labor, chainsaw gas&oil, and transport fuel. He says that about 8 cords a year for his setup, and he throws all his household garbage in the firebox as well. He only needs to have a fire a couple of times a week in the winter, and maybe once a week in the summer. He does spend some time each month working of the water, as is keeping it rust free, and the PH right. When he needs to add another heating circuit, he just drops a copper coil in the water, and another pump.

 

[nybirdman]

I know a local guy that has one he built in the shape of a long box, holds about 10,000 gallons of water. Has no closed top, so does not have to be classified as a "boiler" as never any pressure. It has a large brick lined firebox 24x36, and a blower to help start the fire. The fire/heat excanger tubes are 4 inch tubing, and they enter a box on the far end of the box and another set to come back through the water before the chimney. The door has a thermostat controlled draft, that when the water gets to 205 F it closes and the fire will go out. He heats his old large farm house, greenhouse, all hot water, and their hot tub with it. A lot of firewood around here to be gotten for free, except for labor, chainsaw gas&oil, and transport fuel. He says that about 8 cords a year for his setup, and he throws all his household garbage in the firebox as well. He only needs to have a fire a couple of times a week in the winter, and maybe once a week in the summer. He does spend some time each month working of the water, as is keeping it rust free, and the PH right. When he needs to add another heating circuit, he just drops a copper coil in the water, and another pump.

I THINK HE MENT 80 CORDS A YEAR,REALLY 10,000 GALLLONS OF WATER TO 205 DEGREES FOR A YEAR on 8 cords of wood don't think so.Central boilers also are not pressurized and have a control door for draft.

 

[PapaPerk]

I can't believe people think burning green wood is a good idea! :grumpy:

 

[MNBobcat]

I can't believe people think burning green wood is a good idea! :grumpy:

Burning green wood is a great idea. In wood boilers the best way to feed them is with a mix of seasoned and green wood. That way you get long burn times. If you load the boiler with only seasoned wood, you might not get a 12 hour burn.

I personally only burn wood that has not been seasoned. I also try not to split anything other than the rounds that are two big to lift into the boiler. I easily get 12 hour burn times.

I want to do as little work as possible with my wood. One thing a lot of people don't think about is that how they install their boiler makes a HUGE difference. I just have to shake my head at people who install a boiler and then go cheap on the underground lines and then they comment about how much wood they go through and that the snow melts where their lines run between the boiler and the house. Duh! They probably go through a third more wood than I do because they give up so many BTUs to heating the frozen ground.

Next...people will run long runs using 1" pex and then plumb everything inside their house in series. They can't push enough water through 1" pex on a long run. So they have BTUs they can't use. Then by running stuff in series, say your furnace followed by a HX for the hot water, you reduce the line size to about 3/4" in the HX for the furnace and then with the low water flow to the HX for the hot water heater it can't draw the BTUs it needs.

I ran a primary/secondary loop using 1 1/4" pex. My 1 1/4" line comes into the house, makes a loop (still 1 1/4") and returns to the boiler. Then I have a separate pump for each line that comes off that loop. And a controller to control the pumps. When my furnace calls for heat, its the primary circuit and it turns on the pump to send hot water to the HX in my furnace. If my hot water heater calls for heat, it has its own pump as well. Since things aren't in series, each "leg" can flow a lot more water.

The pump on the main loop is a larger pump than the secondary pumps.

All pumps are grundfos 3-speed pumps. I can flip a lever for the speed setting on each pump and optimize it for it's purpose.

All pumps are located inside of my house. If a pump fails, I'm inside nice and toasty warm replacing it rather than standing out in the cold.

In other words, I tried to optimize the system where it can pull off as many BTUs for each circuit as needed.

Your boiler design can have a big influence on how much wood you use. I spent more money up front (with extra pumps and such) but the payback is that it works incredibly well and because its more efficient I use less wood.

Also, I had no desire to be standing outside, in the dark, in the wind, filling a wood boiler. I built a 12 x 24 foot building using pole building metal and posts. I poured a cement slab for the floor on the half of the building where the wood boiler sits. A 3 foot high block wall separates each side of the building so no coals can roll over to the side of the building where I store wood. I used metal studs where the walls were close to the boiler. There is nothing flammable near the boiler. I installed a louvered fan I can turn on to evacuate any smoke from when the boiler door is opened.

As for the gasification boilers, they are more efficient but you have to burn very, very well seasoned wood or you have problems.

I can go drop a tree, cut it up and burn it the same day. I've not had to clean my chimney in 3 years. I've checked it each year and its been surprisingly clean. I also have very little smoke from my boiler. Not sure why. I have a fairly tall chimney to get out the roof of my building and perhaps its changed how the boiler burns and draws.