Comparison Yanmar lawsuit.

[Scotty Dive]

Is fredericks targeted too?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

There has to be something more sinister going here to be a trade mark violation. These dealers of used and rebuilt Yanmar's must be doing something else we don't really have access too yet. Like the evidence. They must sell units that clearly not a Yanmar as a Yanmar. My bet is that these business have taken a bunch of Chinese parts and put them together to create a tractor and then slapped on the hood with a Yanmar logo on it and sell it as a rebuilt Yanmar. This would be a trade mark violation. There could have even imported back engineered Yanmar knockoffs produced in places like Vietnam and China and brought to the USA as Yanmar's and sold on their good name. If what makes a tractor a tractor is not Yanmar then they have a case. Of course that would be the law suite, just how much can be replaced with non OEM parts before it's not a Yanmar anymore?

HS

HS I agree there is more than currently meets the eye and must be some strong evidence to support the charges or the cases will be tossed. There was a case in recent years where a knock off of some Ford tractor model was being shipped into the US from China but I do not know how that turned out.

There are stories of many products being farmed out to China to be produced but the factories just keep producing the products after all the tooling costs have been paid by the legit owner of the products and they flood the market with the same produce. Sometimes they change the name and color of the paint but not always perhaps. They seem to see everything is in public domain.

 

[Rainbody]

Funny story,
I was in Korea and some friends would talk about China. From 9-5 they made TVs with brand name X. Workers would go home and the next shift would run the assembly line for brand name Y using all the sub components rejected by brand name X.
You can imagine, not all Y made products were labeled Y.
Wouldn't shock me if there's a little assembly line turning out whole tractors or parts.

 

[rhett]

Well, you can view a Filing:
"Case 4:12-cv-00509-Y Document 1 Filed 07/23/12 Page 1 of 107"
Yanmar v. Big Red's Equipment
8.12mb pdf file

http://www.ndtexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Yanmar.pdf

to mad to comment more

 

[284 International]

...There was a case in recent years where a knock off of some Ford tractor model was being shipped into the US from China...

Do you by any chance know any more about this? Was this a recent model of tractor, or something much older, like an N series?


This case is not about knockoffs. Yanmar is not alleging there is any importation of fake tractors mismarked Yanmar. They are claiming their own products are being imported without their approval, and have different operating features and lack safety features, thus damaging their trademark.

 

[Scooby074]

Well, you can view a Filing:
"Case 4:12-cv-00509-Y Document 1 Filed 07/23/12 Page 1 of 107"
Yanmar v. Big Red's Equipment
8.12mb pdf file

http://www.ndtexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Yanmar.pdf

to mad to comment more

Looks like their argument is spelled out pretty clear there.

Yanmar has been sued as a result of injuries from grays.

Yanmar is losing out on parts sales for "legal" machines

Big Red applied "new style" graphics over top of the existing graphics

Ages of the tractors weren't published

Grays dont meet applicable safety standards..

THey were warned to cease selling the grays, and kept selling them

There's a bunch more there, but thats the gist i got in a very quick read.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Do you by any chance know any more about this? Was this a recent model of tractor, or something much older, like an N series?


This case is not about knockoffs. Yanmar is not alleging there is any importation of fake tractors mismarked Yanmar. They are claiming their own products are being imported without their approval, and have different operating features and lack safety features, thus damaging their trademark.

The photo in my mind is more like perhaps a 4600 series. It was nearly a carbon copy right down to the sheet metal. They have done the same with some models of cars per an article from a couple years ago.

I to expect this Yanmar suit is more involved than the few details. Having the selling dealers buy back the equipment is a non starter for sure.

 

[NHmitch]

This is another example, and another person they are going after with an interesting case summary:
Georgia IP Litigation: Yanmar Files Trademark Infringement Action Over "Grey Market" Tractors

 

[NHmitch]

Its funny how Yanmar says in their lawsuit that: "Yanmar alleges that YCL manufactures tractors specifically for distribution in Japan ("Japanese Local Market YANMAR® tractors") that are used primarily in flat, muddy rice paddies and are typically equipped with only a small rotary tiller. Yanmar claims that the YANMAR® tractors sold in the United States are materially different, are intended for use in agriculture and construction on a variety of terrains, and include front end loaders, backhoes, and large rotary mowers."

My Bolens Tractor came off the exact same assembly line as the Iseki tractors that they intended for use in Japan, and they sold them in the US around the same time that your tractors were manufactured. In fact, I think that if you look at just about any big brand of tractor, you will see that they have an identical model that is for sale in very different agricultural markets around the world, and rice is not all that they farm in Japan..

 

[Neat 1500]

if they are going after Hoye that might explain their site being down at the moment?

 

[winston1]

I'm sure all of us grey market owners are watching this thread and Yanmars lawsuits with great interest. I've no idea how all this will turn out but I do know if I loose parts support for my tractor I will no longer be an admirer of Yanmar. I just wonder if Yanmar has considered the feelings of the buyers?

 

[rhett]

excerpt from: Farm Safety | Environmental, Health and Safety Services | Virginia Tech

Some tractors are exempt from the ROPS requirement, which became effective on October 25th, 1976.

* Tractors with 20 horsepower or less,
* Tractors with mounted equipment that is incompatible with a ROPS cab or frame,
* Low-profile tractors used in orchards, vineyards, farm buildings, or greenhouses where the clearance of the frame/cab would interfere with normal operations. Note: If the low-profile tractor will be used in other locations, it must be equipped with a ROPS.

notice within line 40 from the above listed pdf, a "YM2610D" is referenced, not a smaller hp unit.

notice line 1 from the above listed pdf, did you know the US granted citizenship to a Jap Corporation? What is that?

 

[kenmac]

I to expect this Yanmar suit is more involved than the few details. Having the selling dealers buy back the equipment is a non starter for sure.

That's what's in the filing. I doubt that they will be able to buy back after all the legal fees. Unless they ( all the dealers) have mega$$$$$ yanmar will break most if not all parts sellers with legal fees. When you come down to it. It's all about the $$$ yanmar is (as they state) loosing alot of $$$ on tractors & parts. Why else would they be asking for all profits that were made from tractors & parts

 

[houstonscott]

Since Yanmar has not been in the American market until just a few days ago, I don't see how they can be effected financially at all, indeed I would argue that the gray market tractors have built the following and reputation that Yanmar enjoys now in USA, and will fully exploit it by finally selling hear directly. In other words the only reason I know anything at all about Yanmar tractors their reliability and began to investigate Yanmar as a possible small tractor purchase is because of the grey market supply here in the USA. It's the only reason there is a demand now for Yanmar to come to USA, people want a new Yanmar, to include the colors. The grey market guys have built the Yanmar name here, not sure who should pay whom here.

HS

 

[Gale Hawkins]

excerpt from: Farm Safety | Environmental, Health and Safety Services | Virginia Tech

Some tractors are exempt from the ROPS requirement, which became effective on October 25th, 1976.

* Tractors with 20 horsepower or less,
* Tractors with mounted equipment that is incompatible with a ROPS cab or frame,
* Low-profile tractors used in orchards, vineyards, farm buildings, or greenhouses where the clearance of the frame/cab would interfere with normal operations. Note: If the low-profile tractor will be used in other locations, it must be equipped with a ROPS.

notice within line 40 from the above listed pdf, a "YM2610D" is referenced, not a smaller hp unit.

notice line 1 from the above listed pdf, did you know the US granted citizenship to a Jap Corporation? What is that?

In 1992 I bought the orchard model Zetor new. It came without ROPS and downdraft exhaust and was easier for me to get on since about 10 months prior I had had a double hip replacement.

Later Zetor sent me a registered letter offering a ROPS for $600 but I never purchased it before I sold the tractor. I am sure the registered letter was to cover them legally.

As to Yanmar I am they have good reasons for the suit but unless they are going to "dump" into the USA in these down times I see the suit as perhaps cooking their 'goose'. It is hidden agendas that one can never be sure about. :thumbsup:

 

[284 International]

I found some articles about Futian and their importers getting sued for importing tractors very similar to some New Holland machines. http://info.usitc.gov/ouii/public/337inv.nsf/RemOrd/486/$File/337ta4861.PDF

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...oj0HsD&sig=AHIEtbQJvZgKWzqn1yWc1lAay3HspFBMrA

The Futian suit seemed to be about a machine built by another company that duplicated or at least appeared to be the same as, another company's product.

The Yanmar situation seems somewhat akin to the importation of non-US market camera equipment. Nikon has, for years, fought the importation of otherwise identical equipment sold at lower prices. They have been unsuccessful, since the product is not illegal to own in this country. There is no trademark infringement, since the cameras are Nikons, they just haven't gone through Nikon's distribution network.

I really hope the dealers are able to get a judgment in accordance with what is right: a legal product should be able to be bought and sold by whomever lawfully owns it at the time. It does not infringe anyone's trademark to sell products they made.

 

[Rainbody]

"blue, use of the colors w]l1ite and black, the particular placement and juxtaposition of the blue, white and blac1~ colors on the tractors and their wheels, the placement of all lettering and numbering in white against a black background in the same location on the side of the hood, and design features, namely, the silhouette, or profile, of the hood, and horizontal curved flares on the sides of the hood."

So it looked close to a NH but wasn't one. If these go through courts successfully, what's to stop auto makers from the same? There's a lot of cars that look like each other.

 

[Scooby074]

"blue, use of the colors w]l1ite and black, the particular placement and juxtaposition of the blue, white and blac1~ colors on the tractors and their wheels, the placement of all lettering and numbering in white against a black background in the same location on the side of the hood, and design features, namely, the silhouette, or profile, of the hood, and horizontal curved flares on the sides of the hood."

So it looked close to a NH but wasn't one. If these go through courts successfully, what's to stop auto makers from the same? There's a lot of cars that look like each other.

Not autos, but you should look up the Apple patent lawsuit currently against Samsung. "Its got round corners!!! We're suing!!!"

 

[clemsonfor]

HS I agree there is more than currently meets the eye and must be some strong evidence to support the charges or the cases will be tossed. There was a case in recent years where a knock off of some Ford tractor model was being shipped into the US from China but I do not know how that turned out.

There are stories of many products being farmed out to China to be produced but the factories just keep producing the products after all the tooling costs have been paid by the legit owner of the products and they flood the market with the same produce. Sometimes they change the name and color of the paint but not always perhaps. They seem to see everything is in public domain.

U sure your not talking about Farmtrac, they either bought or reproduced older ford tractors as the patent ran our or they owned it or something? They were an indian (maybe korean) company but they left the country and left their dealers high and dry. There is little source for parts i beleive other than what ford parts may fit?

 

[clemsonfor]

Its funny how Yanmar says in their lawsuit that: "Yanmar alleges that YCL manufactures tractors specifically for distribution in Japan ("Japanese Local Market YANMARｮ tractors") that are used primarily in flat, muddy rice paddies and are typically equipped with only a small rotary tiller. Yanmar claims that the YANMARｮ tractors sold in the United States are materially different, are intended for use in agriculture and construction on a variety of terrains, and include front end loaders, backhoes, and large rotary mowers."

My Bolens Tractor came off the exact same assembly line as the Iseki tractors that they intended for use in Japan, and they sold them in the US around the same time that your tractors were manufactured. In fact, I think that if you look at just about any big brand of tractor, you will see that they have an identical model that is for sale in very different agricultural markets around the world, and rice is not all that they farm in Japan..

The US version of the YM2000 is the YM240. THE only difference is i think a 2 speed PTO, it has an internal overrun clutch in the trans and they fuel lever pushes foward to increase rpm's vs pull toward you on the grey model. And paint color is different. Other than that they are the exact same model! Well the US version came with R1 ag tires instead of rice tires (r3's).