You guys from Canada are beating us.....Geeeez ! Look at this...

[3930dave]

Well, Big Insurance and Big Pharma/Med may appear to be quiet here (Ontario, Canada), but they are always busy behind the scenes.

HUGE money to be made in even a small market transition. Lobbyists, their friends, and the people that feed them stand to make out like bandits. Hey, I even chose a polite term today !

Here is a small (but still staggeringly expensive) example of the game being played here.

Ontario government had power over Ornge, ex-CEO says | Ontario | News | Toronto Sun

Aside from people lining their pockets at the Public/Private Transition Trough, what the government gets out of it is another layer of obfuscation between elected government, and any perceived responsibilities. Win/Win/Win for everybody except the taxpayers, and dead or dying patients.

As long as the Provincial Chief Coroner toes the political line, and does not call an Official Inquiry into ORNGE related fatalities, the gubmint here is betting they can minimize the damage from this one.

As bad a cluster **** as ORNGE is, my much bigger concern is this was just a trial balloon, thin edge of the wedge type of move towards privatization here. Sadly, if the governing party isn't kicked out over this issue (and a few others, any one of which justify the turfing, IMO), this trial balloon may be successful.

Vigilance is required. Here's hoping that people here turn off the "Reality Shows" long enough to notice the actual reality show going on in healthcare.

Rgds, D.

 

[tcartwri]

During the debate I always wondered where the Insurance companies and big health care companies stood on the issue. They were silent so far as I know. Don't know what it means but maybe some one else can chime in.

We have much stricter rules about political donations from corporate 'sponsors'. It's a lot tougher to get into peoples pockets who can influence legislation and policies. I don't know how you folks see it, but from our perspective it seems like your whole political system is driven by corporate America. The money you spend every four years is mind boggeling.

 

[chkntrktr]

We have much stricter rules about political donations from corporate 'sponsors'. It's a lot tougher to get into peoples pockets who can influence legislation and policies. I don't know how you folks see it, but from our perspective it seems like your whole political system is driven by corporate America. The money you spend every four years is mind boggeling.

It is driven by corporate America. Despite all the promises of campaign finance reform nothing ever gets done about it.

 

[brin]

So now I heard on the news today, Fox, that a Chinese company is buying a Canadian Oil company and the Chinese will now be buying all the Canadian Oil....so now we can continue to bow to Iran and all the other Muslim countries...So Canada proves they are smarter than us again...We could have built the pipeline...but no...Just too disgusting....

 

[IslandTractor]

It is driven by corporate America. Despite all the promises of campaign finance reform nothing ever gets done about it.

The Supreme Court has unfortunately concluded that money is speech so cannot be limited. Corporations, they tell us, are people too so their contributions cannot be limited either. Our political system has been badly distorted by these interpretations of the constitution.

 

[brin]

The Supreme Court has unfortunately concluded that money is speech so cannot be limited. Corporations, they tell us, are people too so their contributions cannot be limited either. Our political system has been badly distorted by these interpretations of the constitution.

Island...Miracles do happen....I can agree with you for a change...I think it is outrageous that we do not limit the amount of money spent on election campaigns and also require all money to come from the US govt. = taxpayers..I mean, how stupid are we to allow corporations, unions or the super wealthy to influence and corrupt all of our politicians....How can any of them remain honest when tempted with the huge amounts of lobbyist cash, campaign cash etc. Our whole system is corrupt from the top of the Federal system to the smallest town in the US...Campaigns should also be limited to no longer than 3 to 6 months...the way it is now , the politicians begin their new campaign the instant they win election....

That is all I have to say...we deserve this if we allow it....!

 

[300UGUY]

The Supreme Court has unfortunately concluded that money is speech so cannot be limited. Corporations, they tell us, are people too so their contributions cannot be limited either. Our political system has been badly distorted by these interpretations of the constitution.

As I read somewhere else: "Corporations will be people when they come home in a flag draped coffin."

 

[TCJatko]

"..I mean, how stupid are we to allow corporations, unions or the super wealthy to influence and corrupt all of our politicians....How can any of them remain honest when tempted with the huge amounts of lobbyist cash, campaign cash etc. "
At the risk of sounding abrasive, if a congressman or senator can be corrupted by cash, he or she is corruptible by nature and should not be in any position of responsibility or public trust. It's just a matter of price. I see that the Democrats' decades-long litany of class envy and corporate vilification has taken root in many posters' minds. Sad.

 

[IslandTractor]

"..I mean, how stupid are we to allow corporations, unions or the super wealthy to influence and corrupt all of our politicians....How can any of them remain honest when tempted with the huge amounts of lobbyist cash, campaign cash etc. "
At the risk of sounding abrasive, if a congressman or senator can be corrupted by cash, he or she is corruptible by nature and should not be in any position of responsibility or public trust. It's just a matter of price. I see that the Democrats' decades-long litany of class envy and corporate vilification has taken root in many posters' minds. Sad.

You reminded me of a story attributed to Winston Churchill:

A certain gentleman inquired of a lady whether she would be willing to sleep with him for 50,000 pounds. After some hesitation, the lady replied that she supposed she would, in consideration of the magnitude of the offer. Then he asked whether she would sleep with him for twopence.
"Certainly not," she responded with indignation. "Just what kind of lady do you think I am?"

"Madam, I believe we have already established that," he remarked calmly. "Now we are just haggling over the price."

One politicians price may be higher than another but don't fool yourself into believing that the vast majority couldn't be bought.

 

[TCJatko]

You reminded me of a story attributed to Winston Churchill:

A certain gentleman inquired of a lady whether she would be willing to sleep with him for 50,000 pounds. After some hesitation, the lady replied that she supposed she would, in consideration of the magnitude of the offer. Then he asked whether she would sleep with him for twopence.
"Certainly not," she responded with indignation. "Just what kind of lady do you think I am?"

"Madam, I believe we have already established that," he remarked calmly. "Now we are just haggling over the price."

One politicians price may be higher than another but don't fool yourself into believing that the vast majority couldn't be bought.

A great anecdote. Sir Winston is my all-time favorite politician and in my humble opinion, by far and away the greatest leader of the Twentieth Century. I never said I didn't believe a politician couldn't be bought. It's sad they place self-enrichment over principles.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

So now I heard on the news today, Fox, that a Chinese company is buying a Canadian Oil company and the Chinese will now be buying all the Canadian Oil....so now we can continue to bow to Iran and all the other Muslim countries...So Canada proves they are smarter than us again...We could have built the pipeline...but no...Just too disgusting....

At this point, it might be more fair to say the sale has not been approved by the CDN GOV based on "net benefit" to Canada. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[WilliamBos]

At this point, it might be more fair to say the sale has not been approved by the CDN GOV based on "net benefit" to Canada. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

China will not be buying all of our oil, so dont worry. Please remember this come fall, so you can that Obama. He blew it.

 

[3930dave]

Churchill and the lady...... well, let's just say that applies to pols north of the 49'th equally well.

I've heard immigrants comment that there is so little corruption here (Canada). What they are talking about is at the (literal) street level - getting shaken down regularily by LEOs, that type of thing. The corruption that does occur here is at a very high level, and tends to be hidden behind our Hewers of Timber, Dudley Do Right, Anne of Green Gables marketing. Believe me, Corporate Canada very much runs the show here - they just tend to prefer to do it from behind the scenes.

Comments have been attributed to CSIS concerning high level Canadian politicians being owned by the Chinese (PRC).

Cinder - better than even money that Nexen is a slam dunk - Harper is gunning for a future board seat.

Rgds, D.

 

[chkntrktr]

The Supreme Court has unfortunately concluded that money is speech so cannot be limited. Corporations, they tell us, are people too so their contributions cannot be limited either. Our political system has been badly distorted by these interpretations of the constitution.

What's the old saying? "Money talks" I just hope our Supreme Court doesn't know about it first hand.

You are right about interpretations of the constitution and the trend looks to be getting worse.

 

[chkntrktr]

"..I mean, how stupid are we to allow corporations, unions or the super wealthy to influence and corrupt all of our politicians....How can any of them remain honest when tempted with the huge amounts of lobbyist cash, campaign cash etc. "
At the risk of sounding abrasive, if a congressman or senator can be corrupted by cash, he or she is corruptible by nature and should not be in any position of responsibility or public trust. It's just a matter of price. I see that the Democrats' decades-long litany of class envy and corporate vilification has taken root in many posters' minds. Sad.

It doesn't sound abrasive to me, I have to agree with you about them being corruptible by nature and they shouldn't be in positions of public trust. I can't speak as to where some of the poster's minds are coming from, but I do agree that the class envy and corporate vilification is something that has been used and even more so now as a political tool.

I believe you said it best in your next post after that and I quote "It's sad they place self-enrichment over principles."

As brin pointed out, corruption reaches from the the top Federal level down to the smallest towns in America. I see it here in my county where comissioners and councilmen vote for things that aren't for the good of the people as a whole but just helps out a few. What really bugs me is that people keep voting the same ones back in over and over.

 

[Alan L.]

I wonder what kind of socialized health systems Americans could have if we shut down the national defense that protects the entire North American continent? Pretty easy to direct funds to social programs when you only spend $1.98 on national defense.

 

[3930dave]

I have tremendous respect for what Canadian military personnel accomplish, with the funding they are given. I said to a retired friend of mine "You should have been given a medal just for going up in those Sea King Helicopters". His response "Nah, I'd do it again in a heartbeat".

My friend ended up focusing on officer/management activities in the Forces after he broke his back as a SAR tech on the Sea Kings. Still, he says he'd do it again in a heartbeat. Really smart guy, just a helluva lot braver than most.

This morning, I came back here from the "Cat.... concessions" thread. What a contrast to what I just described. Sad.

Not just N. America. I truly feel sorry for what it costs (in all respects of the word) the American people to play Policeman to the World.

If I was going to comment on the vectors behind that history, well, I'll play by the rules here and just say we'd have to take that over to Friendly Politics. Let's just say that benefit to the American people has often been a low priority.

'Nuf said.

Rgds, D.

 

[WilliamBos]

We had a deal on buying new EH 10 Helicopters, but the lefties who had never rode in a helicopter won the election back in 1993 on a promise to cancel them , and they were cancelled. They blew the money on the gun registry.

We are finally getting replacements, Sikorsky CH 148's. All the money the lefties wasted cancelling them would of paid for them.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Canadas-CH-148-Cyclones-Better-Late-Than-Never-05223/

I have tremendous respect for what Canadian military personnel accomplish, with the funding they are given. I said to a retired friend of mine "You should have been given a medal just for going up in those Sea King Helicopters". His response "Nah, I'd do it again in a heartbeat".

My friend ended up focusing on officer/management activities in the Forces after he broke his back as a SAR tech on the Sea Kings. Still, he says he'd do it again in a heartbeat. Really smart guy, just a helluva lot braver than most.

This morning, I came back here from the "Cat.... concessions" thread. What a contrast to what I just described. Sad.

Not just N. America. I truly feel sorry for what it costs (in all respects of the word) the American people to play Policeman to the World.

If I was going to comment on the vectors behind that history, well, I'll play by the rules here and just say we'd have to take that over to Friendly Politics. Let's just say that benefit to the American people has often been a low priority.

'Nuf said.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Yep Will, good to know that Ministers will have reliable helicopters to get them back and forth from the cottage and white water rafting !

(To be clear, I'm totally in favour of upgrading ALL the equipment for the troops). Just taking a swipe at you know who.

What was that old Air Farce skit...... "Those clever Canadian sailors, confusing the heck out of an attacking navy by firing...... Canonballs !!!!??????".

Yep, gotta do the best you can with the tools at hand ! :mur:

Rgds, D.

 

[WilliamBos]

We all used to joke that we had to pull naval ships out of museums to help for Golf War 1.
Would love to see an Osprey in person, they are sweeet!

Yep Will, good to know that Ministers will have reliable helicopters to get them back and forth from the cottage and white water rafting !

(To be clear, I'm totally in favour of upgrading ALL the equipment for the troops). Just taking a swipe at you know who.

What was that old Air Farce skit...... "Those clever Canadian sailors, confusing the heck out of an attacking navy by firing...... Canonballs !!!!??????".

Yep, gotta do the best you can with the tools at hand ! :mur:

Rgds, D.