Do 4 in 1 buckets hold up?

[sqdqo]

I am curious if 4 in 1 loader buckets hold up as well as standard buckets when using breakout force prying etc. Obviously they are more capable but are they worth having or are they trouble?

 

[Lostalot]

I reckon the4 in one s are great, however I have spent numerous occasions
repairing them because I have been too ham fisted,they can distort easily with incorrect usage particulary carrying items clamped in the jaws on one side then snagging that load on say a truck body side or such. Also carying items such as posts vertically through the jaws at the mid point needs great care , pulling posts ( that was my last repair)but the ease of being able to at least pick things up and the configurations available for levelling and clean ups gives so much more flexibilty over a standard bucket. Also you can clamp attachments within the jaws easily such as spreader/levellers etc, a winch (that was another disaster of mine) just to name a few...Only on one backhoe was there a breakout strength loss and that was because of the front tilt/4 in one combo assy all others have been fine, not much experience though on the smaller compact machines ...regards

 

[Lostalot]

Hello Scott
Did you get my reply?

 

[sqdqo]

yes thanks

 

[powerstroke444e]

I have a 4n1 on my B26 and use it commercially and have had no issuies. And find its very handy on almost all loader projects to keep from having to ever leave the seat. But its no grapple.

 

[dirt ditch]

4in1's are great but just like anything else they can be broken if not used properly and stressed beyond their design limitations.

 

[Ken45101]

4in1's are great but just like anything else they can be broken if not used properly and stressed beyond their design limitations.

Or poor design. The bracket should be designed to easily handle the stress created by the hydraulics. That break does not look like it was from overuse of the bucket (e.g. ramming something) but rather from weak design. Unless, of course, the machine was putting out excessively high pressure.

Just my opinion.

Ken

 

[Bob Rooks]

Appears like the relief valve has been tweaked maybe. Or maybe had a 20' log clamped endo.
And I don't see very much grease on those pins.

 

[dirt ditch]

I'd agree it was a poor design. The bottom of the cylinder mounts broke out 4 times before thick plates were fabricated and welded on to both sides of each mount on the bucket. Haven't had any problems since. Every time it broke was when the loader was being used for tree and debris removal, so there was lots of pressure being put on those lower mounts.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Actually, the design is good, and a popular one. However, I believe the flaw lies in the selection of steel used for the pin bosses and cylinder cradle. I speculate that it is the same steel used for the construction of the bucket whereas it should be a low alloy high tensile steel (70,000 to 100,000 psi). I will further speculate that subsequent repairs were also performed with steel of relatively low yield strength - mild steel, and thus propagates the myth of bad design.
Not to mention the apparent total lack of lubrication (zerk fitting missing altogether) which adds to pin stress which transfers to the pin bosses. In this case, it was the pin that failed that caused the bosses to fail. Bottom line? Responsible ownership.

 

[Ken45101]

Actually, the design is good, and a popular one. However, I believe the flaw lies in the selection of steel used for the pin bosses and cylinder cradle.

I would consider the steel selection as part of the design.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I would consider the steel selection as part of the design.

Nope:
1) Design - Geometry = shape, functionality, and movement to achieve the desired process.
2) Selection of material to use within design constraints to achieve reliability and functionality.

 

[Ken45101]

Nope:
1) Design - Geometry = shape, functionality, and movement to achieve the desired process.
2) Selection of material to use within design constraints to achieve reliability and functionality.

Well back when I was in engineering, we spec'd the material as well as the "shape, functionality...."

Actually mild steel would be okay....if they increased the thickness, so that's part of the "shape" too.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Well Ken, I'm 71 years old and STILL in engineering.

 

[tlbuser]

Actually, the design is good, and a popular one. However, I believe the flaw lies in the selection of steel used for the pin bosses and cylinder cradle. I speculate that it is the same steel used for the construction of the bucket whereas it should be a low alloy high tensile steel (70,000 to 100,000 psi). I will further speculate that subsequent repairs were also performed with steel of relatively low yield strength - mild steel, and thus propagates the myth of bad design.
Not to mention the apparent total lack of lubrication (zerk fitting missing altogether) which adds to pin stress which transfers to the pin bosses. In this case, it was the pin that failed that caused the bosses to fail. Bottom line? Responsible ownership.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone has been backdragging stumps/debris with the clam only or using the clam to "pop" stumps.

 

[tlbuser]

Well Ken, I'm 71 years old and STILL in engineering.

But the math and component integrity have changed over time. Maybe it's time to let go of the sliderule too

Was cleaning out a closet recently and found my basic nuclear engineering text (circa 1977) and the handy dandy sliderule. Forgot I held on to either one of them.

 

[Bob Rooks]

But the math and component integrity have changed over time. Maybe it's time to let go of the sliderule too

Was cleaning out a closet recently and found my basic nuclear engineering text (circa 1977) and the handy dandy sliderule. Forgot I held on to either one of them.

Duly noted. But why stop doing something you enjoy, and your boss is happy with your work? I still have my original slipstick somewhere. It's wood.
And you of all should know that the math never changes...
Totally agree on your call: "I wouldn't be surprised to see someone has been backdragging stumps/debris with the clam only or using the clam to "pop" stumps."
The Drott 4 in 1's on the 977 Cats rarely gave any problems.

 

[tlbuser]

Duly noted. But why stop doing something you enjoy, and your boss is happy with your work? I still have my original slipstick somewhere. It's wood.
And you of all should know that the math never changes...
Totally agree on your call: "I wouldn't be surprised to see someone has been backdragging stumps/debris with the clam only or using the clam to "pop" stumps."
The Drott 4 in 1's on the 977 Cats rarely gave any problems.

Enjoying your work does make going to work feel good.
Maybe instead of ribbing about the math changing, I should have gone in the direction of "the application of mathematical models by more recent graduates may infer that previously used examples are inferior, however upon further scrutiny an omission was made altering the model in non-favorable terms for the current application". Drop that in a memo and watch the feathers ruffle

 

[Bob Rooks]

Enjoying your work does make going to work feel good.
Maybe instead of ribbing about the math changing, I should have gone in the direction of "the application of mathematical models by more recent graduates may infer that previously used examples are inferior, however upon further scrutiny an omission was made altering the model in non-favorable terms for the current application". Drop that in a memo and watch the feathers ruffle

I love it! :laughing::laughing::thumbsup: That's right up there with the Turbo Entabulator.

 

[dirt ditch]

Here is photos of the fix.