Ballast almost flipped the tractor, really need some help!

[RaydaKub]

Those of us with ROPS and seat belts have to keep this in mind, what will go flying around, or come loose, if we tumble? I had thought of using a large collection of Universal Gym weights I have, the flat kind that are 15 pounds of perfect iron that stack marvelously. And after reading this, I will make sure I build some kind of very strong retaining strap or top on it for sure. I think those weights would hurt more than wet sand, and I don't think either of us want to try.

That's exactly what I have. 25 ten lb plates about 4 inches by 9 inches by 5/8 thick. I bolted 24 of them to a 2 foot drawbar I bought at TSC in 4 stacks of six balanced on the front and back of the drawbar. The drawbar sits verticle instead of the normal horizontal way. The 25th plate is bolted below the drawbar using the holes in the plates. Six 8 inch 5/8" bolts to hold it all together. 275 lbs and solid as a rock hanging on the 3ph.

 

[chad22]

I didn't get hurt but **** was I shaken up. The FEL is large at 6 foot and the path I cut was only 5 so it didn't fit lowered. I raised it and it just tipped forward.

I would have needed new undies if that happened to me. lol

Glad you didn't get hurt.

Chad

 

[eray1066]

Hey guys
First time posting here and I really need some help!
We have quite a steep block of land. Around 5 acres with the steepest part being 40 degrees or so.

I recently purchased a John Deere 4105 with a FEL to do some hobby farming / mowing. There were a few delivery delays for the FEL so at first I only had the tractor. She worked like a charm and I managed to mow all the lawn and get started ripping / tilling. FEL arrived and the whole dynamic changed.

It feels like the tractor actually has trouble going up the hill now? A lot more revs required and she seems unstable.

I'd never driven a tractor before but hydrostatic was simple enough. Did a good 30 hours before the FEL. I had no idea about counterweighting on the first day with the FEL and this happened ( photos )

I didn't get hurt but **** was I shaken up. The FEL is large at 6 foot and the path I cut was only 5 so it didn't fit lowered. I raised it and it just tipped forward.

I thought the ripper would be enough counterweight but it wasn't. The tyres arnt filled either as some have suggested.

I don't want to add so much counterweight the tractor has more trouble going up the slopes?
Its a skid steer loader so ive been dropping it when going on the slopes so ive been hesitant to fill the tyres.

What do you guys recommend??
How much weight should i put at the back?

We do not want too heavy a tractor on our vegetable farm for soil compaction reasons but have to balance that aspect vs safety. Our loader is very powerful and could easily do some scary or fatal stunts without the right counterweight. Three large wheel weights on the rear wheels (six total for over 600 lbs) allow for safe operation with minor loads in the bucket. However when using the forks to unload really heavy stuff like large bags of potting soil (1000+ lbs) we attach the 3 point hitch harrow which weighs 1242 lbs its center of mass is way back behind the rear axle. This allows a stable lift and is much easier on the front end of the tractor. Using a farm tractor to lift heavy loads or operate on uneven ground requires proper weight balance, undivided attention and an educated right hand that knows how to drop the load if anything goes wrong.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We do not want too heavy a tractor on our vegetable farm for soil compaction reasons but have to balance that aspect vs safety. Our loader is very powerful and could easily do some scary or fatal stunts without the right counterweight. Three large wheel weights on the rear wheels (six total for over 600 lbs) allow for safe operation with minor loads in the bucket. However when using the forks to unload really heavy stuff like large bags of potting soil (1000+ lbs) we attach the 3 point hitch harrow which weighs 1242 lbs its center of mass is way back behind the rear axle. This allows a stable lift and is much easier on the front end of the tractor. Using a farm tractor to lift heavy loads or operate on uneven ground requires proper weight balance, undivided attention and an educated right hand that knows how to drop the load if anything goes wrong.

I know it is a pain in tight places but some like that or a bush hog is about as good as it gets. Something that can put some drag on the ground can really help stabilize should the tractor start free wheeling. I sometimes forget about free wheeling in Low Multi-Power on the MF 265. Going down a steep pond bank dropping the bush hog into the ground really helped keep it straight when I first used it when my FIL still was living.

 

[jim_wilson]

I think the recommendations for counterweight are all very light. Given you bucket was empty and that happened, it will do the same thing loaded with only 600-800 lbs counter weight. Loaded tires would be an excellent start but 3PH ballast in the form of a heavy box blade or something will actually help take weight off the front tires too. These pictures tell me you probably need both.

I would say the same thing. My old BX23 had a backhoe hanging off of it - that weighed in around 650 pounds. The few times I pulled the hoe off and did some loader work with just the box blade on the back (350~ pounds) - I could tell a definite difference.

I think you should look up what the recommended backhoe is for that tractor - see what it weighs in at - and start from there for a "good" weight to be hanging off the back of the tractor.

Load up the tires ALSO - it gets the weight down LOW. If you hang weight off the rear of the tractor - hang that as low as you can. The further upwards you pull the weight - the more unstable the tractor will get (as you discovered).

 

[daugen]

Interesting that Kubota specs the same 1000 pound ballast box for both L and M tractors.
One would hope that an operator of the largest Kubota able to pick up 4-5K in the bucket,
might look to find a weightier solution.

 

[k0ua]

Interesting that Kubota specs the same 1000 pound ballast box for both L and M tractors.
One would hope that an operator of the largest Kubota able to pick up 4-5K in the bucket,
might look to find a weightier solution.

I have wondered about that too, on the Kioti DK35se (my tractor) they spec 1100 lbs rear ballast. and same for the DK40se.. and the DK40se will lift about 1300 more lbs on the FEL.. DK40se is about 4.5 inches longer chassis and weighs maybe close to 200 lbs more, but golly. is that going to make the difference?

James K0UA

 

[Technoid]

Hey guys
First time posting here and I really need some help!
We have quite a steep block of land. Around 5 acres with the steepest part being 40 degrees or so.

I recently purchased a John Deere 4105 with a FEL to do some hobby farming / mowing. There were a few delivery delays for the FEL so at first I only had the tractor. She worked like a charm and I managed to mow all the lawn and get started ripping / tilling. FEL arrived and the whole dynamic changed.

It feels like the tractor actually has trouble going up the hill now? A lot more revs required and she seems unstable.

I'd never driven a tractor before but hydrostatic was simple enough. Did a good 30 hours before the FEL. I had no idea about counterweighting on the first day with the FEL and this happened ( photos )

I didn't get hurt but **** was I shaken up. The FEL is large at 6 foot and the path I cut was only 5 so it didn't fit lowered. I raised it and it just tipped forward.

I thought the ripper would be enough counterweight but it wasn't. The tyres arnt filled either as some have suggested.

I don't want to add so much counterweight the tractor has more trouble going up the slopes?
Its a skid steer loader so ive been dropping it when going on the slopes so ive been hesitant to fill the tyres.

What do you guys recommend??
How much weight should i put at the back?

I had the same problem when I was new to tractors. Here is what I learned...
Rule of thumb with loaders. Always carry a load close to the ground as possible. Never pick up a load when the tractor is on a side angle. Never use the loader raised in the air to push against anything! When on hills travel front up or down with loader close to the ground. The loader should never be used as a dig device. You will damage your transmission. A loader is just that. For Loose ground, gravel, back grading and such. Always wear your seat belt! As an option install a pre-tip over warning alarm. And Always have a counter weight. Hope that helps.

 

[Marauderer]

No Harm no Foul. Glad you are ok and are learning. I would say the curve is vertical but, it will flatten out shortly.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I had the same problem when I was new to tractors. Here is what I learned...
Rule of thumb with loaders. Always carry a load close to the ground as possible. Never pick up a load when the tractor is on a side angle. Never use the loader raised in the air to push against anything! When on hills travel front up or down with loader close to the ground. The loader should never be used as a dig device. You will damage your transmission. A loader is just that. For Loose ground, gravel, back grading and such. Always wear your seat belt! As an option install a pre-tip over warning alarm. And Always have a counter weight. Hope that helps.

How do you push over tall trees if you do not raise the bucket?

 

[urded]

Hey guys
What do you guys recommend??

I read through four pages of ideas. The one idea I did not read is to go down the slope in REVERSE while keeping the bucket low.


Then you won't have that problem.

 

[jacspath]

I had my own [well actually second one. I'm a slow learner.] Oh S**t! moment just yesterday. My old buddy Kubota with FEL and finish 3 blade mower on back as counter weight and I were in a place that I have been many times knocking down some growth on a walking trail on my back 40. So I was more dreaming about my recent trip to Cape Cod than being an alert tractor operator and did not grasp until almost too late that the large amount of rain over the last several months had soften the down slope half of the trail and suddenly I realized that the left front wheel was sinking and the right rear was actually off the ground. I had the FEL AND [since I was 'coming back'] the mower deck lifted, making the whole structure less stable despite having the rear wheels being filled. Going on the cutting half of the journey with the FEL very near the ground [the growth was very high and thick so I used the FEL as an advanced 'sensor' in case anything solid was hidden in the vegetation] and, of course, the mower deck down, it was far more stable and probably the first passage started the soft ground moving down slope.

I VERY quickly dropped the FEL and the deck and stabilized the situation enough to back out of the 'Trap' and figured a way around the problem situation.

But here is the surprising part. Later I was talking to three other tractor operator friends for one reason or another and, obviously, had to share my 'brush with a horrible death and my astute and heroic escape from disaster' tale. I was astonished to discover that not one of these experienced but amateur tractor users understood enough of the physics to realize what happened and why my 'solution' [dropping the FEL and the deck] was the obvious step to quickly stabilize the solution. Maybe everyone should have to take a course in the use of these dangerous machines just like they need a course [or a test at least, if they have had good informal training already] in driving or gun safety before they are allowed to buy one.

 

[EE_Bota]

I had my own [well actually second one. I'm a slow learner.] Oh S**t! moment just yesterday. My old buddy Kubota with FEL and finish 3 blade mower on back as counter weight and I were in a place that I have been many times knocking down some growth on a walking trail on my back 40. So I was more dreaming about my recent trip to Cape Cod than being an alert tractor operator and did not grasp until almost too late that the large amount of rain over the last several months had soften the down slope half of the trail and suddenly I realized that the left front wheel was sinking and the right rear was actually off the ground. I had the FEL AND [since I was 'coming back'] the mower deck lifted, making the whole structure less stable despite having the rear wheels being filled. Going on the cutting half of the journey with the FEL very near the ground [the growth was very high and thick so I used the FEL as an advanced 'sensor' in case anything solid was hidden in the vegetation] and, of course, the mower deck down, it was far more stable and probably the first passage started the soft ground moving down slope.

I VERY quickly dropped the FEL and the deck and stabilized the situation enough to back out of the 'Trap' and figured a way around the problem situation.

But here is the surprising part. Later I was talking to three other tractor operator friends for one reason or another and, obviously, had to share my 'brush with a horrible death and my astute and heroic escape from disaster' tale. I was astonished to discover that not one of these experienced but amateur tractor users understood enough of the physics to realize what happened and why my 'solution' [dropping the FEL and the deck] was the obvious step to quickly stabilize the solution. Maybe everyone should have to take a course in the use of these dangerous machines just like they need a course [or a test at least, if they have had good informal training already] in driving or gun safety before they are allowed to buy one.

Dropping the FEL is obvious to me, but dropping the rear implement is not.

 

[Comotoes]

Has it not occurred to anyone that his JD dealer didn't do him any favors?! Letting that unit out the door with no ballast of any sort - and knowing the size of the bucket he was providing to boot! Sheesh!!!

 

[formulabruce]

Has it not occurred to anyone that his JD dealer didn't do him any favors?! Letting that unit out the door with no ballast of any sort - and knowing the size of the bucket he was providing to boot! Sheesh!!!

EXACTLY! Around here a dealer would be in DEEP DOO DOO for that!!!

PS, a JD 4005 would walk right up those hills, not wasting any power on hydrostatics!!Same size tractor, Collar shift

BEST multi use front end tool!>>>http://artillian.com/

 

[RoyJackson]

Has it not occurred to anyone that his JD dealer didn't do him any favors?! Letting that unit out the door with no ballast of any sort - and knowing the size of the bucket he was providing to boot! Sheesh!!!

True, and that's what we would expect in the United States.
However, the OP lives in Australia and how dealers work there may be quite different.

 

[freddmd]

I have an L3800 with FEL and on the back I usually have an implement that is fairly heavy such as a rotary tiller that is about 600 lbs or box spreader that is 500 lbs. My tractor seems to handle very well with these attachments both when using the FEL or when just riding on the fields some of which is hilly.

 

[GILLYS CHILLI FARM AUSTRA]

Has it not occurred to anyone that his JD dealer didn't do him any favors?! Letting that unit out the door with no ballast of any sort - and knowing the size of the bucket he was providing to boot! Sheesh!!!

I recently put in an order with a local Australian Victorian State dealer for a KUBOTA MX5100 HST 4WD 4-1 FEL, SLASHER, CANOPY [no BH avail with this model in Aust] and in respect to dealer providing information prior to my purchase...it was non existent unless i asked the questions...he NEVER offered any real advice and it took me a great deal longer to decide which Tractor to finally put an order for.

He was reasonably forthcoming to every email when i asked questions...a novice would or should ask, and inpatient for me to stop the questions and put the order in, but since i have put my deposit down and i asked a couple more questions...he has NOT answered any of the IMPORTANT questions about the appropriate ballast for the MX5100 with Water in the tires, when using FEL with wet clay..

MOST IF NOT ALL my information has come from the very helpful people in the USA on TBN, YOUTUBE, EVERYTHING ATTACHMENTS, ORANGE TRACTOR MECHANIC etc and asking questions to local farmers and relatives for their opinions of Kubota.

I'm thinking that modern day dealer salespeople are probably poorly advised not to put questions into potential buyers heads by offering reasonable advice for ones needs for fear of either delaying or directing buyers to other brands maybe? I dont really know but its been a nightmare trying decide which Tractor would best suit my intended use, as i have flat, gently undulating and steep acrea areas to deal with.

KUBOTA should look into the calibre of the dealership appointments IMO.
IMO KUBOTA should prepare its own series of YOUTUBE sessions of how to drive, operate and use the Tractors in different situations cluding digging up hard clay areas as a service for intending buyers like me BEFORE customers put in a deposit. Some prearranged driving and safety instructions on a real tractor might actually increase sales too IMO.

I stayed with the dealer due to close proximity and the price, but i expected somewhat a better level of salesmanship and service prior to purchase, but i now know i need to find a local mechanic of which there are many to have it serviced because i doubt the dealer is going to be any great help after delivery and I'll be calling KUBOTA direct with any problems.

I had to ask the dealer to put water in the tires as part of the order,

My basic question which I expected him to just provide a 2 second as he should know reply....but

Can anyone here on TBN the source of most of my education....advise me whether a KANGA M150 SLASHER and with water in tires to 90% capacity with wheels set at largest width will be enough for when i operate the FEL in wet clay?

Thanks guys.

 

[GILLYS CHILLI FARM AUSTRA]

I should not forget the The Bayou Gardener too.lol love watching all the advice on how to grow potatoes, and other vegies.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Thanks, but I'd rather not learn from a good scare. I'd prefer to learn by reading what y'all post here. Much less hassle on the washing machine!

Thanks for keeping newbies like me safe.

Rog