I tried to weld two different size metals together on my mower deck last week. It did not go too well. I was able to get both pieces hot and add the rod. It looked like it would hold but when I hit it with a hammer it came apart. I used a coat hanger for filling material. Do they make a special rod for use with the oxy/acey welding? Any tips on this style of welding for repair work? I am trying to avoid spending the money on a welder/generator.
Oxy?aceytelene Welding
- Thread starter thegrouse
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k0ua
Epic Contributor
RG45 is the standard rod for mild steel
https://weldingsupply.securesites.net/cgi-bin/einstein.pl
Was the base metal clean? properly prepped?
James K0UA
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Not for welding, brazing yes, welding no. What kind of joint was it? (butt, Lap, T joint?) Did both sides of the parent metal puddle up good? How thick was it? It should have worked, but coat hanger metal I would think is pretty lousy metal, probably old melted scrap of dubious heritage. But I am guessing on the coat hanger I don't really know for sure. Clean it up (grind) and get some RG45 and try again.. It is mild steel right?
James K0UA
cowski
Platinum Member
coat hangers will work somewhat ,if applied correctly.just heating the metal up ,will not get it welded.to weld both metals have to puddle to weave the rod in.brazing can be done by just heating it up.
It was a deck of my Cub Cadet. I don't think that is mild steel. I had a shield piece bust off. I think the piece that fell off is mild steel. I held the pieces on top of each other with vise grips and welded the seam.
crash325
Elite Member
Gas welding can be as strong as an arc weld. That is with the right filler rod and technique.
Coat hanger is fine for most mild steel. Gas & Arc welding just a matter of stirring moving a molten metal across the weld area.
Depending on how much the difference in thickness is, it could be real impractical to gas or arc either 1. Very often the thin piece melts away before the thick one gets hot.
With all that said arc would probably be better, faster & easier.
Coat hanger is fine for most mild steel. Gas & Arc welding just a matter of stirring moving a molten metal across the weld area.
Depending on how much the difference in thickness is, it could be real impractical to gas or arc either 1. Very often the thin piece melts away before the thick one gets hot.
With all that said arc would probably be better, faster & easier.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Sounds like a lap joint, were you able to get to both sides of the joint front and back and both clean, and weld them both?..The deck is a large piece of metal, and would take some heat to get a good molten puddle on both parent metal pieces and fill the keyhole seam with the filler rod. It almost sounds like brazing might have been a better idea on a lap joint if the stresses on this piece would not be too strenuous.
James K0UA
Tractor Seabee
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Sounds like you need some lessons on O/A welding. Find someone to show you the basics. I have welded everything from sheet metal to 1" thick steel with O/A and think it is easier to learn than arc and I do both. I prefer O/A for different thickness joint materials, repair work, and thinner metals. I have used baling wire, barbed wire, coat hangers, and pieces of scrap as filler rod when nothing else awas handy and had to get'er done. Brazing can be tricky if both parts are not very clean and not in close contact. On thin materials brazing does not work well on lap joints as the pieces tend to warp away from each other. Also it is easy to overheat the alloy which weakens it. On thinner materials put tacks close together first to reduce distortion, and keep pieces in close contact. Sometimes O/A is handier that setting up to arc especially if you are not close to power or do not want to drag out the genset.
Ron
Ron
Gary Fowler
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I did a lot of welding on my old JD mower deck patching some rusted out holes by welding in some 1/8" plate strips to rebuild the areas around the spindles and attachment points. Even as thin as the deck was, it took a surprising amount of heat to get it hot enough to weld. Even though the deck was the thinner part, I had to put more heat on it than I did the eighth inch A-36 flatbar. I would think that it would be just plain carbon steel. It welded ok with coat hangers and pieces of 3/8 galvanized wire from a cattle panel once I got it hot. I dont do enough OA welding to stock the RG45 wire. I usually use coat hangers as they work pretty well.
Try it again and heat it till the metal on both pieces start to melt before trying to add filler metal. As TractorSeaBee said just about any thing you have around the house can be used for filler and it will usually holds pretty good when applied correctly. I like the coat hangers if you can find the larger wire sized ones with the laquer finish they are better. Just aim your tip toward the piece that needs the most heat then adjust the direction as necessary
By the way what size tip did you use. I have an #0 and a #1 and I could have used a #2 on my mower deck. Usually if it gets thick enough to need a #2, I can arc weld it. But since this was pitted and rusted I needed the OA.
Every shop need at least a stick welding machine and and OA rig. I guess it would be a toss up between a TIG rig and a 220v MIG/FCAW wire feed for my 3rd item. TIG will weld some items better and faster than OA but they have to be totally rust free and contaminant free where an OA rig can tolerate some rust, paint grease etc that will just burn away and a hand brushing after heating may be all the cleaning needed. TIG needs clean to bright metal although any welding process benefits greatly from a super clean surface.
Try it again and heat it till the metal on both pieces start to melt before trying to add filler metal. As TractorSeaBee said just about any thing you have around the house can be used for filler and it will usually holds pretty good when applied correctly. I like the coat hangers if you can find the larger wire sized ones with the laquer finish they are better. Just aim your tip toward the piece that needs the most heat then adjust the direction as necessary
By the way what size tip did you use. I have an #0 and a #1 and I could have used a #2 on my mower deck. Usually if it gets thick enough to need a #2, I can arc weld it. But since this was pitted and rusted I needed the OA.
Every shop need at least a stick welding machine and and OA rig. I guess it would be a toss up between a TIG rig and a 220v MIG/FCAW wire feed for my 3rd item. TIG will weld some items better and faster than OA but they have to be totally rust free and contaminant free where an OA rig can tolerate some rust, paint grease etc that will just burn away and a hand brushing after heating may be all the cleaning needed. TIG needs clean to bright metal although any welding process benefits greatly from a super clean surface.
Thanks for all of the feedback guys. I think practice is what is needed. I used my cutting torch head because I do not have any welding tips. I think the proper tip will concentrate the heat to where I need it. Now that I know it is possible I will cut up some scrap and practice when I get a few tips.
Gary Fowler
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Better look for used ones on craigslist. A FEW tips could break the bank. I think the #2 I bought was $68 but that may have included the two little O rings that go on the cutting head that I got at the same time. Better sit down when they tell you the price of those also.
Tractor Seabee
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Usually on craigs list you do not find individual tips only complete/incomplete sets. Brands are not interchangeable so be careful to get the same brand tip as your torch handle. I am assuming you have a cutting attachment and not a one piece cutting torch. If you are not profecient with welding tips you will have a bear of a time trying to weld with a cutting tip. I have done it but not on material thinner than 1/8". Bite the bullet and get that $30.00 #2. You can push a #2 up to 1/4" material. Thats what we used to weld standard weight pipe up to 2". I like to run hotter than most so I used a #3 and turned it down on smaller stuff. I just bought the biggest rosebud heating tip my newer Victor torch will handle and it cost me almost $100. That is the only way to heat stuff for bending or preheating.
Ron
rcowan
Gold Member
Take a class at your local community college. Not only will they give you the information you need for O/A but you will gain knowledge on the other sides of welding; safety etc etc. At out CC guys and gals work on projects that have little to do with the actual class. Our instructors are great about helping out with not only questions that come up in the class but actual work/hobby situations.
RC
RC
crash325
Elite Member
Trying to weld with a cutting torch just isn't going to work. They are not designed to burn clean.
A few tips to fit your handle is not that costly. Or buy a Harbor Freight welding set for less than $100 and you get an assortment of tips, cutting torch, even a rose bud, plus hoses & gauges.
A few tips to fit your handle is not that costly. Or buy a Harbor Freight welding set for less than $100 and you get an assortment of tips, cutting torch, even a rose bud, plus hoses & gauges.
just because it has fallen out of favor because there are easier methods, doesn't mean it doesn't work.
rsewill
Veteran Member
Groo said:
It works, but wire feed does it very nicely.
