New Max series...

[rwork]

Really, who cares what they class them as?? I'm in the market for a new tractor, but I didn't set out to look for a "SCUT, a CUT or any other abbreviation for class. I'm out looking for the best tractor to fit my needs and budget. I'll not rely on just what anyones web page shows. I'll go look at the features and benefits that a particular brand/model has to offer me, and base my buying decision from that.......I want a machine that will perform the tasks I want to do, and be the best value for my dollar.

So call them what you want.......

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Really, who cares what they class them as?? I'm in the market for a new tractor, but I didn't set out to look for a "SCUT, a CUT or any other abbreviation for class. I'm out looking for the best tractor to fit my needs and budget. I'll not rely on just what anyones web page shows. I'll go look at the features and benefits that a particular brand/model has to offer me, and base my buying decision from that.......I want a machine that will perform the tasks I want to do, and be the best value for my dollar.

So call them what you want.......

Just my 2 cents worth!

:thumbsup: ... Realistic
larry

 

[DavesTractor]

Really, who cares what they class them as?? I'm in the market for a new tractor, but I didn't set out to look for a "SCUT, a CUT or any other abbreviation for class. I'm out looking for the best tractor to fit my needs and budget. I'll not rely on just what anyones web page shows. I'll go look at the features and benefits that a particular brand/model has to offer me, and base my buying decision from that.......I want a machine that will perform the tasks I want to do, and be the best value for my dollar.

So call them what you want.......

Just my 2 cents worth!

Might just be the best post out of the 163 so far in this thread.

 

[kootch88]

Wow, a voice of reason. Why is it a new guy to tractors like me was able to meander through the advertising and figure out what I wanted, regardless of who compared what to what? Admittedly I ended up with a Mahindra, but there was no confusion caused by the advertising. There were a lot of great tractors out there and I never paid attention to SCUT or CUT, and to be honest, I didn't know what the heck they were, even though I've read this web site for information for nearly two years. Heck, I still don't know!!

I must say though, when comparing my tractor to the Kubota BX series mine looks like a tractor, and theirs looks like a yard tractor, which is why I did not get that series, and I did not end up with a B series because they were too big., or a MAX28 for that matter. Same holds true for the Deere, the only other serious contender because of proximity to a dealer. The fit wasn't there.

 

[Don87]

Well Don, my bad on not catching the fact you have a Massey.

Calling me a liar doesn't fly, and you will not get support for that comment from anyone that knows me. Calling me imperfect, well that's not a problem!

I'm not coming down to your level, to do so would require personal attacks on your integrity, and that is way out of the realm of a well moderated tractor forum such as this.

I'm already way above the level of anyone that falsely advertises a product. I never have, and never will misrepresent any item I sell.

You are free to deal with your customers as you like. But if you are selling the Max series as a subcut, you are being dishonest.

As I posted........you have the specs, you know it isn't a subcut......you already admitted it once, after that you appeared to backtrack..

And you also know that it isn't fair to compare the Max series with the BX series or any subcut out there.

 

[Don87]

Really, who cares what they class them as?? I'm in the market for a new tractor, but I didn't set out to look for a "SCUT, a CUT or any other abbreviation for class. I'm out looking for the best tractor to fit my needs and budget. I'll not rely on just what anyones web page shows. I'll go look at the features and benefits that a particular brand/model has to offer me, and base my buying decision from that.......I want a machine that will perform the tasks I want to do, and be the best value for my dollar.

So call them what you want.......

Just my 2 cents worth!

Actually, there are thousands that do care.

And when false advertising muddy's the waters it makes it very hard for the first time buyer to understand what he is looking at. And that is exactly why Mahindra has misclassified the Max series..........for the express purpose of taking advantage of first time buyers with limited knowledge of the products in question.

Daves tractor was right...........that was the single best post so far because it enabled me.........thru the words of another buyer to show just how deceptive that Mahindra is with the Max series.

Mahindra does not make a subcomact tractor.

 

[DavesTractor]

I'm already way above the level of anyone that falsely advertises a product. I never have, and never will misrepresent any item I sell.

You are free to deal with your customers as you like. But if you are selling the Max series as a subcut, you are being dishonest.

As I posted........you have the specs, you know it isn't a subcut......you already admitted it once, after that you appeared to backtrack..

And you also know that it isn't fair to compare the Max series with the BX series or any subcut out there.

Don,

This is how Mahindra defines the subcut. You define it your way. I don't really care so much about how Massey or Kubota or JD define sub-cut. But like an astute poster mentioned, who really cares about the label? We are going after the market that Kubota goes after with their BX, but we never set out to make a BX clone and paint it Mahindra red.

Look at our 4035PST vs the Kubota L3940 GST. We are 850 lbs heavier, so over 20% heavier. Darn, what will we call that tractor? It just isn't fair if we call it the same class as the Kubota.

Our 5035 PST vs the L4740 GST, we are 1200 lbs heavier. Well we better not advertise this as a compact because that would be dishonest and deceptive! We don't fit the Kubota mold on this one either.

Lets go to a utility tractor, like the Mahindra 8560 vs the Kubota M8540. Hmmm, we are 1897 lbs heavier, lift more, etc. Well, we better not advertise that as a Utility, because it is 30% more tractor than the Kubota and that wouldn't be fair. Of course our 5035 weighs about the same as the Kubota M8540, so is the M8540 a Compact?

You know Don, I just don't see any way we can advertise honestly. We are going to have to shrink our tractors a little, maybe make them less capable, put on some smaller tires, we can then run it by you and see if that passes your test. :thumbsup:

To the rest of you "non-Don87" Kubota fans, if you read many of my posts you will find that I have a huge respect for Kubota, their dealers, and their products. They have done wonders in the small tractor market, and when they first started people gave them little hope. Now they hold a huge market share. And they did it by defining their own market, building a good product and selling it via good dealers. So my defense of Don's vitriolic criticisms is not meant in any way to disparage Kubota.

 

[AchingBack]

What gives a word its meaning? I propose it is defined by the majority of the people who use it. A nudist finds it "normal" to go naked. The nudist's friends are normal, aren't they? If my friends and I like to congregate with clothes on; aren't we also normal?


Definition
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Definition (disambiguation).

A definition (≝) is a passage that explains the meaning of a term (a word, phrase or other set of symbols), or a type of thing. The term to be defined is the definiendum. A term may have many different senses or meanings. For each such specific sense, a definiens is a cluster of words that defines that term.

A chief difficulty in managing definition is the need to use other terms that are already understood or whose definitions are easily obtainable. The use of the term in a simple example may suffice. By contrast, a dictionary definition has additional details, typically including an etymology showing snapshots of the earlier meanings and the parent language.

Like other words, the term definition has subtly different meanings in different contexts. A definition may be descriptive of the general use meaning, or stipulative of the speaker's immediate intentional meaning. For example, in formal languages like mathematics, a 'stipulative' definition guides a specific discussion. A descriptive definition can be shown to be "right" or "wrong" by comparison to general usage, but a stipulative definition can only be disproved by showing a logical contradiction.[1]

A precising definition extends the descriptive dictionary definition (lexical definition) of a term for a specific purpose by including additional criteria that narrow down the set of things meeting the definition.

C.L. Stevenson has identified persuasive definition as a form of stipulative definition which purports to describe the "true" or "commonly accepted" meaning of a term, while in reality stipulating an altered use, perhaps as an argument for some specific view.

Stevenson has also noted that some definitions are "legal" or "coercive", whose object is to create or alter rights, duties or crimes.[2]

 

[murphy1244]

Don,says Actually, there are thousands that do care. Not really. We really don't care anymore about what is a cut scut or a but stuck in a rut. :laughing:

 

[kootch88]

:laughing: You, my friend are a very wise man!! And eloquent as well.

 

[rwork]

Wow!!!
I'm not going to get into the middle of a "spitting" contest. But I just don't understand all the ruckus over how a tractor is tagged.
I'm very new to this great forum, and I have owned a little 1979 Kubota B6100 for many years. Yes it has been a great machine; never any problems. It just isn't big enough to what I plan to do currently, or in the future.

Speaking for myself, I went first to my Kubota dealer (even before looking at any advertising), to see just what was available in the new tractors. After mentioning that I would likely be interested in a smaller tractor, I was shown a BX model. I didn't give it a second look. I wanted something larger than what I have, with more HP, yet still a manageable size. The BX was not for me. Now, keep in mind, I have no clue how tractors are "classed". I looked at their B series. Nice tractors, but I could tell that they were going to be on the "light" end of what I was looking for.

I remembered there was another tractor dealer close by, but didn't even know what brand they carried. Mahindra! Hmmm, is this some cheap, off brand? I knew nothing about them. Pulled up their website, and yes, their featured tractor was the MAX series, as they had just been released. I figured it would be worth a visit to look them over. Sure enough this dealer had a fresh shipment of 22's, and 25's. No 28XL's yet. I was certainly impressed with their products. Still I don't think the smaller MAX were what I wanted. The 28XL...
maybe. I'm leaning towards the 3016. Much heavier, yet at the top of my size limit.
I'll likely take a look at the Kubota L series as well.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that I certainly haven't done my tractor search based on what one brand or another, compares its product to, or whether it's called a SCUT, CUT, HYBRID, or what ever, I'm using my own common sense to compare products that I feel are comparable in the areas that are important to me; Size, weight, power, and functionality. And will make a decision based on those merits.

Misleading advertising? I hardly think so. Anyone who buys based on just what they've read or seen somewhere is certainly doing themselves an injustice.
Marketing is marketing. Get out to your dealers. Look, touch, operate, and decide which product is right for you!

"And that's all I'm gonna say 'bout that"

 

[DavesTractor]

..........for the express purpose of taking advantage of first time buyers with limited knowledge of the products in question.

I think Don 87 must be pulling our leg. He can't be serious. But let's run with this for a minute and see if we can make it work.

So a first time buyer buys a Max 25. Some time later he is looking at his neighbors BX2660. He is jealous as the BX2660 sings along at 3200 rpm to get 19.5 PTO HP. Poor FTTB (First Time Tractor Buyer) is sad that his tractor gets it's 20 PTO HP at just 2376 rpm. He longs to rev it up more and burn more fuel and make more noise, yet there is no need, he has power to spare.

So then he thinks that just maybe the BX is an inch or two shorter, so he does a turning radius contest and FTTB turns a 7.2 foot radius to the BX 7.5. Wow, another dissapointment, the Max is more manueverable.

Then he compares tire sizes and is terribly dissapointed, as he really likes tiny tires and was tricked by the dishonest folks at Mahindra. In fact to compensate and to keep the world in balance, he is going to take his big tires off of his truck and put on little ones. And his sports car, yep, seeing the BX made him decide to take the 345/30-19 tires off the back, there is certainly no need for that big fat rubber. So he has larger tires and so in this way the FTTB is tricked again.

So then he decides to grade his driveway, but with his Max he is stuck with a smooth operating position control for the three point and a nearly 20% larger capacity pump, whereas the BX operator gets to keep real busy trying to get his grade right with his non-position control economy three-point hydraulics. Dang, tricked again. The scoundrels at Mahindra Marketing, and we know who they are, are pure evil.

Then he talks to his neighbor about the possibility of a backhoe, since they are tractor buddies by now and they need a ditch for some reason. No problem with the Max, all models take backhoes. His neighbor is still checking on this and talking about trading his tractor in.

Then the FTTB finds out that his MAX is made in Japan by Mitsubishi, and that Mahindra is the largest tractor company in the world (by total tractors sold). Then he finds out that Mahindra has award winning quality and a 5 year warranty that does not cost extra. Then he finds out that he can chose his tire type at no extra. My oh my, the more he looks into this, it is just awful.

I could go on, but it gets ugly. The poor FTTB has been tricked into this tractor by the clever marketing folks at Mahindra...and he lived happily ever after.

I tried my best, I just couldn't work up a situation where the poor FTTB was taken advantage of. Perhaps he got more tractor then he may have at first wanted, but how many people say they wish they would have bought a tractor that was just a little less capable? I think the poor FTTB would send Mahindra Marketing a thank you card, maybe even a small gift.

 

[bbraud6]

Even though i'm a deere man, I agree with Dave wholeheartedly. Stand your ground Dave, i don't think your trying to mislead anyone.

 

[rockshaft]

My current criticism of the Max is I can't use their website very effectively. My connection isn't lightning fast, but their site is slow as a turtle compared to any others. Could they be that overloaded? I don't recall if I ever saw a response to why the Max25 backhoe is "better" than the Deere 260?

 

[DavesTractor]

Even though i'm a deere man, I agree with Dave wholeheartedly. Stand your ground Dave, i don't think your trying to mislead anyone.

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words.

I had a John Deere Model D for a while. Stright pipe, 500 cubic inch 2-cylinder IIRC. I'd start it just to let it shake the windows in the neighborhood. What a cool old tractor, and decades old and ran like a top. Now my old tractor is a Case Model DO orchard. Love the old USA made machines of almost any brand.

 

[AchingBack]

Actually, there are thousands that do care.

And when false advertising muddy's the waters it makes it very hard for the first time buyer to understand what he is looking at. And that is exactly why Mahindra has misclassified the Max series..........for the express purpose of taking advantage of first time buyers with limited knowledge of the products in question.

Daves tractor was right...........that was the single best post so far because it enabled me.........thru the words of another buyer to show just how deceptive that Mahindra is with the Max series.

Mahindra does not make a subcomact tractor.

You are partially correct. Mitsubishi builds sub-compact tractors for Mahindra.

 

[Don87]

Don,

This is how Mahindra defines the subcut. .

You have the specs in front of you...........you as a dealer knows that it is not a subcut, I should not need to repeat myself to you.

If you tell customers that the Mahindra Max is a subcut..........you are doing a disservice to your customers.

The lines between subcut, and cut have been there for quite a while, and you know full well what they are. But by your definition..........I can sell my neighbors craftsman as an ag tractor...........just because he says it is?


And Dave.........I'm only coming down on you because you had the unmitigated gall to try to argue a point, when you know that you and Mahindra are clearly wrong. Your previous posts prove my point!!!

Now do the right thing.

Mahindra does not make a subcut.

 

[Don87]

Wow!!!
I'm not going to get into the middle of a "spitting" contest. But I just don't understand all the ruckus over how a tractor is tagged. I'm very new to this great forum, and I have owned a little 1979 Kubota B6100 for many years. Yes it has been a great machine; never any problems. It just isn't big enough to what I plan to do currently, or in the future.

Speaking for myself, I went first to my Kubota dealer (even before looking at any advertising), to see just what was available in the new tractors. After mentioning that I would likely be interested in a smaller tractor, I was shown a BX model. I didn't give it a second look. I wanted something larger than what I have, with more HP, yet still a manageable size. The BX was not for me. Now, keep in mind, I have no clue how tractors are "classed". I looked at their B series. Nice tractors, but I could tell that they were going to be on the "light" end of what I was looking for.

I remembered there was another tractor dealer close by, but didn't even know what brand they carried. Mahindra! Hmmm, is this some cheap, off brand? I knew nothing about them. Pulled up their website, and yes, their featured tractor was the MAX series, as they had just been released. I figured it would be worth a visit to look them over. Sure enough this dealer had a fresh shipment of 22's, and 25's. No 28XL's yet. I was certainly impressed with their products. Still I don't think the smaller MAX were what I wanted. The 28XL...
maybe. I'm leaning towards the 3016. Much heavier, yet at the top of my size limit.
I'll likely take a look at the Kubota L series as well.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that I certainly haven't done my tractor search based on what one brand or another, compares its product to, or whether it's called a SCUT, CUT, HYBRID, or what ever, I'm using my own common sense to compare products that I feel are comparable in the areas that are important to me; Size, weight, power, and functionality. And will make a decision based on those merits.

Misleading advertising? I hardly think so. Anyone who buys based on just what they've read or seen somewhere is certainly doing themselves an injustice.
Marketing is marketing. Get out to your dealers. Look, touch, operate, and decide which product is right for you!

"And that's all I'm gonna say 'bout that"

That's the key.........you don't know, by your own admission.

Now might be the time to sit back and learn a little.

 

[Don87]

Even though i'm a deere man, I agree with Dave wholeheartedly. Stand your ground Dave, i don't think your trying to mislead anyone.

A little studying of facts may change your mind about the Mahindra Max Series............You do realize that according to Mahindra, the Deere 1 series is junk compared to Mahindras "subcompact tractor"(that doesn't exist).

 

[Don87]

You are partially correct. Mitsubishi builds sub-compact tractors for Mahindra.

Mitsubishi builds Compact Utility Tractors for Mahindra.


Mahindra does not sell a subcompact tractor.