Heart Healthy Eating

[txdon]

Anyone see or read the recent study that determined that eating fried foods had no correlation to heart health. Can someone explain what their definition of healthy is?

HS

Yes, their definition of heart health should be preempted with the words: as compared to.

In the study mentioned 40,757 Spanish adults aged 29 to 69 participated.

None of the study participants were diagnosed with heart disease prior to the beginning of the study. The participants were divided into groups on how much fried food they consumed (between 1992 and 1996) and after 11 years 606 had coronary heart disease events. Notice, this study did not check the participants for heart disease development, only events. (There were 1,135 deaths from all causes.) They found no correlation or difference between using a high or low amount of oil, sunflower oil or olive oil, the results were the same. Both groups had fried foods. Therefore both groups had the same incidence of heart disease that they did not have before the study.

To me this study means:
1. Moderation of oils does not prevent heart disease.
2. Eating fried foods can cause heart disease

I would have like to have seen the study on eating a fat free plant based diet to one eating a fried food diet. Now that would be a comparison.

Edit: There were also 712 definite, possible, or probable coronary heart disease events in addition to the 606 definite coronary heart disease events.

Here is a MI study that compared differently and got different results. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18936332

 

[txdon]

Soda, soda, soda....
So as the saying goes, "you are what you eat" plus "what you drink."

You may have something here Ron, I have been letting a few diet cola's slip into my drinking. They are now out. I had an Amy's pretzel with no butter last night, they are now out.
The lack of exercise is starting to show in my triglyceride level. I'm getting on the elliptical tonight and will start working my knee.
Labs: Total 168, Trig. 148, LDL 81, HDL 67, as you can tell these are different from the Drugstore Cholesterol test a week ago. While the LDL and HDL values are better the Triglyceride level throws it too high.
I wish they made a trusted accurate home tester so I could see immediately what makes my values fluctuate.

I was reading where If you did not have a heart event the plant based diet could start working in as little as 3 weeks. If you had a heart event It could take anywhere up to 18 months. My chest pains I had after my heart attack have gone and I will be hanging in there for the long run, tweaking along the way.

 

[pacerron]

You may have something here Ron, I have been letting a few diet cola's slip into my drinking. They are now out. I had an Amy's pretzel with no butter last night, they are now out.
The lack of exercise is starting to show in my triglyceride level. I'm getting on the elliptical tonight and will start working my knee.
Labs: Total 168, Trig. 148, LDL 81, HDL 67, as you can tell these are different from the Drugstore Cholesterol test a week ago. While the LDL and HDL values are better the Triglyceride level throws it too high.
I wish they made a trusted accurate home tester so I could see immediately what makes my values fluctuate.
I will be hanging in there for the long run, tweaking along the way.

Better stick with the real test from your doctors. The drug store tests are for folks who have not had a real test ever or for a long time. It discovers folks with extreme high sugar, and extreme cholesterol and functions to urge them to see a real doctor.
My wife says since you have been laying pavers for a while your hands/skin are probably very ruff making it hard to get a good blood sample. They probably got mainly just serum.
Drink lots of WATER, it flushes out the bad guys...

 

[arrow]

You may have something here Ron, I have been letting a few diet cola's slip into my drinking. They are now out. I had an Amy's pretzel with no butter last night, they are now out.
The lack of exercise is starting to show in my triglyceride level. I'm getting on the elliptical tonight and will start working my knee.
Labs: Total 168, Trig. 148, LDL 81, HDL 67, as you can tell these are different from the Drugstore Cholesterol test a week ago. While the LDL and HDL values are better the Triglyceride level throws it too high.
I wish they made a trusted accurate home tester so I could see immediately what makes my values fluctuate.

I was reading where If you did not have a heart event the plant based diet could start working in as little as 3 weeks. If you had a heart event It could take anywhere up to 18 months. My chest pains I had after my heart attack have gone and I will be hanging in there for the long run, tweaking along the way.

TDon if you do not mind me asking, what in your opinion is boosting your HDL figures?
When I was eating nuts I got to your level but LDL came right along. Now that I have stopped eating nuts, I've lost 20 points on my HDL side and dropped 60 points on my LDL.

 

[schweizer]

I mentioned the CHIP program by Dr. Hans Diehl earlier. Here's another one that I forgot about: the Newstart program. http://www.newstart.com/
It's an excellent program for overall health: it's an 18 day course with hands-on vegan/vegetarian diet, exercise, medical workups, etc.

Real world example:
Vegan Diet Impacts California Prison | Vegetarian Spotlight Magazine

The Ornish & Esselstyn books are great -- I'm just mentioning some more options. Both CHIP and Newstart would have more of a support system involved (staff and fellow participants) in changing your lifestyle than just reading a book and trying to follow it. Sort of like trying to stop smoking (which Newstart and CHIP are also advocating): it's much easier if you're quitting with someone else to lean on or encourage, than stopping cold turkey alone or just "tapering off".

Marcus

 

[txdon]

TDon if you do not mind me asking, what in your opinion is boosting your HDL figures?
When I was eating nuts I got to your level but LDL came right along. Now that I have stopped eating nuts, I've lost 20 points on my HDL side and dropped 60 points on my LDL.

My HDL is 57 not 67 as reported earlier. (was on cell phone) That is still up slightly for me.
1. I reduced my Beta blockers (in half), 2 weeks before the test, they are known to reduce HDL.
2. exercise - even though I missed a few days with my sore knee, I have been doing the elliptical for a 30min a day. I had been running 100 miles a month, I started running again 3 miles a day last night.

Toward the Bottom of the page Dr. Esselstyn addresses HDL.
Q&A with Dr. Esselstyn

Schweizer thanks for the links!

 

[BoFuller]

I mentioned the CHIP program by Dr. Hans Diehl earlier. Here's another one that I forgot about: the Newstart program. NEWSTART® Lifestyle Program
It's an excellent program for overall health: it's an 18 day course with hands-on vegan/vegetarian diet, exercise, medical workups, etc.

Real world example:
Vegan Diet Impacts California Prison | Vegetarian Spotlight Magazine

The Ornish & Esselstyn books are great -- I'm just mentioning some more options. Both CHIP and Newstart would have more of a support system involved (staff and fellow participants) in changing your lifestyle than just reading a book and trying to follow it. Sort of like trying to stop smoking (which Newstart and CHIP are also advocating): it's much easier if you're quitting with someone else to lean on or encourage, than stopping cold turkey alone or just "tapering off".

Marcus

Right on! Good references.

 

[arrow]

My HDL is 57 not 67 as reported earlier. (was on cell phone) That is still up slightly for me.
1. I reduced my Beta blockers (in half), 2 weeks before the test, they are known to reduce HDL.
2. exercise - even though I missed a few days with my sore knee, I have been doing the elliptical for a 30min a day. I had been running 100 miles a month, I started running again 3 miles a day last night.

Toward the Bottom of the page Dr. Esselstyn addresses HDL.
Q&A with Dr. Esselstyn

Schweizer thanks for the links!

Thanks Don

 

[houstonscott]

I think the media and food industries definition of healthy means, if you eat this product or do a certain behavior you will not get sick or injured and you will live a longer life at a higher quality. I simply don't believe that at all and they shouldn't be able to suggest that as a fact like they do each and everyday on TV and other advertising. There is no evidence to this at all, claiming something is fact from statistical analysis is not proof of fact.

HS

 

[Tollster]

I have been eating cinnamon roll oatmeal with some walnuts and golden rasins tossed in for good measure the last week or more. I found I lost about 6-8 pounds and it seems as if I am not hungery till supper time. My doc said I should loose a few pounds and my choleterol is high,so the oatmeal and walnuts have some good properties for that.
I feel better too.

 

[beppington]

I have been eating cinnamon roll oatmeal with some walnuts and golden rasins tossed in for good measure the last week or more. I found I lost about 6-8 pounds and it seems as if I am not hungery till supper time. My doc said I should loose a few pounds and my choleterol is high,so the oatmeal and walnuts have some good properties for that.
I feel better too.

Oatmeal is pretty filling :thumbsup:

 

[pacerron]

My HDL is 57 not 67 as reported earlier. (was on cell phone) !

Don,
I wonder if they take your blood pressure in both arms now that you have had
heart problems?
I don't have heart problems, yet, but have gone to doctors every 6 months
for years for other issues. I have never had them check the pressure in both
arms.

 

[txdon]

Don,
I wonder if they take your blood pressure in both arms now that you have had
heart problems?
I don't have heart problems, yet, but have gone to doctors every 6 months
for years for other issues. I have never had them check the pressure in both
arms.

At the cardiologist they did take BP on both arms. One was 103/xx and the other arm was 98/xx. I can't remember the xx but they were fine.

 

[txdon]

I have been eating cinnamon roll oatmeal with some walnuts and golden raisins .... my choleterol is high,....
I feel better too.

I wouldn't be surprised if you cholesterol drops 10-20 points with that diet and loosing weight. That is as long as the evening meal is not catch up on meat/oil.
Eat as many greens as possible, and arugula has the most protective nitrates.

 

[beppington]

There was a segment on the radio show "On Point" on NPR tonight all about the incredible amount of sugar in America's food now. This is a topic I've heard a few times in the news recently; I think a reporter wrote a big, in depth article on it that got the pot stirred up. Apparently when the govt starting regulating the amount of saturated fat (I think) in food (didn't know they did that?), slowly but surely food producers have just switched to sugar instead.

Also they say that too much sugar makes your body think it's starving.

I mentioned earlier my observation that sweet tea at nearly every restaurant here in the south has become sweeter & sweeter to the point where it's hard to even drink, like drinking sugar water. I can put 1/4 to 1/3 glass of today's sweet tea in a glass, then fill the rest with un-sweet tea, & it tastes like sweet tea from a decade ago ... that is, plenty sweet.

 

[pacerron]

At the cardiologist they did take BP on both arms. One was 103/xx and the other arm was 98/xx. I can't remember the xx but they were fine.

Thanks for the reply. I was watching TV as I was treadmilling today and they were talking about how the dual measurement has been done in Europe for some time.
If there is a significant difference( more than 15 in the high and more than 10 in the low pressures between arms ) it could indicate a number of potential problems.
It is just catching on in the US and some are still skeptical of any real meaning.
Blood pressure: Can it be higher in one arm? - MayoClinic.com

 

[schweizer]

Hi Pacerron and others,

I haven't seen the TV clip you're referring to, but this sounds suspiciously like a case where the media is spreading some disinformation. This is not a case of Europe doing something that hasn't caught on in the US yet. In almost every person in the general population, you don't need to take BP in both arms because small variations are completely normal. In a patient with severe atherosclerosis it is prudent to check BP's in each arm for reasons I'll explain below.

Some background that everyone should understand. This thread title refers to heart disease, but atherosclerosis affects all the blood vessels. In the heart, the most severe ultimate consequence is a heart attack (MI or myocardial infarction), in the brain -- stroke, in the kidneys -- hypertension and chronic renal failure, etc. No, I'm not going to talk about calcified plaques vs ulcerated plaques. I'm just going to tell you some basic "plumbing" and how it relates to pathophysiology.

The large artery coming out of your heart is called the aorta. It curves around and makes a U turn, called the aortic arch. Lower down, the aorta gives off branches to major organs in the abdomen. At the top of the aortic arch, there are 3 major branches that go to your neck/brain and arms: the brachiocephalic artery (aka innominate art.), left common carotid artery, and left subclavian artery. See attached pic.

Atherosclerotic plaque formation has a preference for the artery origins (branch points). The left subclavian artery artery for some reason gets more plaque than the other 2 in the arch. If there is enough plaque buildup, or narrowing, the blood pressure beyond that point will be lower. This is the main reason why there is sometimes a significant difference between the BP's in each arm. Very, very *basic* pathophysiology, which every primary care doc also understands. If the narrowing is severe enough, you don't just have a blood pressure differential: when you exercise your left arm, blood can be stolen from the other side via vertebral arteries which supply your brain, causing dizziness, fainting, or even strokes. One of 4 of the main arteries starts flowing backward (AKA subclavian steal syndrome) all because of narrowing of the artery supplying your L arm!

These are disease processes I work with every day. Today, I interpreted many chest CT scans and carotid ultrasounds, both of which we can use to diagnose subclavian stenosis. I can also "alleviate" these diseases, for instance, by opening a clogged up renal (kidney) artery with a stent to relieve life threatening severe HTN (only IF that is the cause of the high BP).

What I am trying to emphasize from a medical perspective, is that just looking at heart disease or micromanaging your cholesterol levels is not looking at the whole picture. Having heart disease just shows you have whole body atherosclerosis. Again, diet, exercise, stopping smoking, reduced stress (via faith, meditation, whatever works for you) are key. Much better than taking drugs. So, so many diseases that affect Western society, especially the USA could be markedly reduced.

Marcus Bryner, M.D.
Interventional & general radiologist

 

[dmccarty]

There was a segment on the radio show "On Point" on NPR tonight all about the incredible amount of sugar in America's food now. This is a topic I've heard a few times in the news recently; I think a reporter wrote a big, in depth article on it that got the pot stirred up. Apparently when the govt starting regulating the amount of saturated fat (I think) in food (didn't know they did that?), slowly but surely food producers have just switched to sugar instead.

Also they say that too much sugar makes your body think it's starving.

Are we getting more sugar in our diet today compare to when I was a kid?

I ponder this frequently.

When I was a kid, a class would have 30-33 kids and maybe 2-3 kids would be fat. I noticed years ago, when passing various school bus stops, that quite a few of the kids were fat. Now a days with our kids in school, there seems to be more overweight kids in school than when I was a kid.

If you have been following the Disney thread you will know I have been to WDW a time or two. The wifey and I went to WDW twice in the late 90s and then did not return for almost 10 years. Prior to returning I was e reading a website about WDW and I read a comment from a woman about overweight kids and how it was a form of child abuse. I thought this was a rather strong statement....

On our first couple of trips back to WDW this century the number of overweight and morbidly obese children was very obvious. There were so many fat kids. The woman's statement was making more sense to me. I have seen some kids at WDW that really disturbed me because of their weight issues. One day we were returning to our resort and there was a family from the UK on the bus. They had a boy about 10-12 who was overweight and I noticed his ankles were rather large. I was wondering if he was just fat or did he have CHD already?

One huge change at WDW today compared to my trips as a kid was the number of parents using strollers. I was going to WDW somewhere around the age of 7 or 8. Today parents will keep kids in strollers who are almost teenagers while at WDW. No way in hades was my mother pushing my fanny around in a stroller at four or five much less ten. Parents do this today because it is easier to carry all of the crap they want, control the kids, give the kids a chance to rest, and keep the family together. It is absurd. When I was a kid there were danged few strollers at the parks now Disney has huge stroller parking areas to handle the mass of strollers. It is unreal.

As a kid we always had soda and salty snacks in the house. My mom baked sweets frequently as well. My family was just like everyone else I knew in this regard yet very few of us were overweight and certainly not morbidly obese.

Which gets me back to the question, are we getting more sugar/fat/calories today than we did in the past? And/Or is it lack of exercise?

I think kids certainly are kept on a short leash compared to when I was a kid but then they also have far more organized sports than I ever had as a kid. So I have no idea what is happening but it is bothersome.

Later,
Dan

 

[Wilky]

Dan we probably are getting more sugar but they are getting a lot less exercise. As kids we walked everywhere and we outside almost all the time playing. Now the kids do little walking and play outside very little. I think they stay in watching TV and playing video games.. iMO.
Wayne

 

[beppington]

...
Which gets me back to the question, are we getting more sugar/fat/calories today than we did in the past? And/Or is it lack of exercise?
...

Prob both. That NPR show said there's "added sugar" in 80% of our foods now. And of course many kids have their face stuck down in their smartphone instead of doing something active.

I had forgotten the primary point of the show: It's being discussed or proposed or whatever to regulate sugar now, because they're arguing that sugar is just as harmful as alcohol & tobacco. Raise taxes on it to make it more expensive. Limit access to it. Limit sales.

Regulating Sugar | On Point with Tom Ashbrook