Heart Healthy Eating

[TMR]

I do have heart disease. Mine was brought on by a vocation of high stress due to its inherent dangers. I do not think eating anything 3 times per year falls under "moderation". I'd consider that more "inconsequential". The term moderation to me means that you can "occasionally" eat or do anything else for that matter. The danger here is that if "moderation" becomes habitual and frequency levels get tighter and tighter or if the definition of moderation is established by the individual to mean "not quite as much as I did it before" (say 3 packs of cigs down to one) then one is certainly playing with fire. In my own case and more ignorant then when I started this last year, I gave up all meat of all kinds. After 6 months , I was disappointed with my numbers. What I did not give up was whole wheat bread and corn chips. The oils in these foods were the culprit. I take fish oil tabs currently and garlic extract. I now wonder if I am doing further harm to myself with the fish oil. As a matter of fact, beyond that I am not sure what I am doing wrong if numbers come out higher than expected with my next visit.

Hi Arrow...my wife and I switched to "plant based" diet beginning of November 2011. I have "traditional" heart disease with family history of heart disease and had two stents put in in 2000. Since 2000 I have been treated for blood pressure/cholesterol and Type II diabetes...with what seems is ever increasing doses of multiple prescriptions I have managed to keep my "number" within suggested range for heart/diabetes patients. Problem is I recognized that I needed to change my diet and lifestyle or everything will just get worse as I get older...currently 64. My wife also has similar issues...just not quite as "progressed".

Since we switched to plant based diet we lost about 20 ponds each during the first 30 days...since then our "compliance" with the plant based diet has been OK but not great. Our problem is candy Our weight has remained stable but we are now trying to improve our choices and eliminating the candy habit. n We have also been getting about 45 minutes of aerobic exercise about 5 of 7 days.

Important thing is we are determined to stay on diet/exercise and lose more weight...I started around 2010 pounds and now am just under 190 pounds. Only 5' 10" so I want to get under 170 pounds as a preliminary goal...not sure what would be normal until I get there.

I have reduced my heart meds by 50%, my diabetes meds by 50% and my cholesterol meds by 50%...even 90 days after reducing my meds and inspite of my candy "splurges" my blood pressure is nicely low (say 70/90), my AM resting heart rate has dropped from high 80-90 to 60-70, my A1C has dropped from 7.1 to 6.1 and my LDL dropped from 77 to 73...all this AFTER reducing meds by 50%.

To shorten the story ...we are excited we are on the right track...while we realize we are still "learning" what our future lifestyle will look like. We plan to be more compliant with both plant based rules and the exercise and recognize we need to continue to lose weight to reach our health goals.

My advice is read research Ornish/Esselstyn (sp?) who are the two leaders in this area and determine what you need to do to improve your results. Don't get discouraged as you work toward what works for you...

BTW...I was one of those that rarely at a vegetable other than green beans and corn...that has changed. I now actually enjoy having 2-3 vegetables work there way into our meals. Haven't missed the meat/fish/chicken...more problem with candy/cheese and chips...but working on that.

We are now leaving for a 4 week road trip...determined to stay very close to our diet...will be a bit more difficult but we are bringing along some of what we rely on and will shop as we stop at various locations along the way. Will report back in a month,

Good luck Arrow...TMR

 

[txdon]

I take fish oil tabs currently and garlic extract. I now wonder if I am doing further harm to myself with the fish oil. As a matter of fact, beyond that I am not sure what I am doing wrong if numbers come out higher than expected with my next visit.

Arrow, it is a constant battle to find the culprits. Before my heart attack I thought I was doing good, even got my cholesterol to normal (but not cardiologist normal as I found out after my heart attack) and the DR. was comfortable taking me off statins. I was no meat but also did not eliminate oils and heavy fat foods (avocados and nuts). Esselstyn explained the no fats aspect and I got it. I hope that was the loose end because that is something I can and have corrected. As TMR, my heart meds have been cut twice and the cardiologist felt safe cutting my cholesterol in half after several LDLs of 40. As you know the cardiologist normal cholesterol numbers are lower than the normal for others. (my goals are LDL less than 70 and total less than 150) My BP is 98/70 and HR-50-60. Just this week my Cardiologist cut my last heart pill (beta blocker) to 1/4 tablet. This was the second cut in half.

My Family DR. recommended taking fish oil to increase my HDL but I told her I was not taking animal products or oils and that Dr. Esselstyn advises to take one tablespoon of Flax seed meal a day. She was OK with that. I get the omega 3 without the excess fat. Oh, when you don't eat meat you need less omega 3.

I remember talking to one distant relative who had gone in for several heart procedures over the past decade and is doing poorly and asked him if he changed his diet. He said: "OH YES, everything in moderation and watch what chips I eat". 10 minutes later I was watching him eat a large BBQ meal. ?????? He has been one of my incentives. Every little bit hurts.

Hang in there keep us posted.

 

[txdon]

TMR your numbers sound fantastic! This is a sustainable diet so I think you will have no problem losing that extra weight over time.

Good luck on your road trip. In Texas SouperSalads are your best bet for one or two vegan soups with mega variety vegetable bar. The 2nd place I like to eat is Subway- veggie, no cheese, (sweet onion sauce-has no fat) on whole wheat. Let us know your road-trip fat free vegan finds.

 

[TMR]

Good luck on your road trip. In Texas SouperSalads are your best bet for one or two vegan soups with mega variety vegetable bar. The 2nd place I like to eat is Subway- veggie, no cheese, (sweet onion sauce-has no fat) on whole wheat.

I will watch for SouperSalads...we are traveling from Minnesota to Mississippi and then on to visit my sister and husband in Conroe, TX and then heading for Palm Springs...then to San Diego b4 we head back to Minnesota. Not sure exactly why we like road trips like this?

Thanks...TMR

P.S. When I travel from Conroe toward Austin en-route to Cal will I be passing nearby your home country? Wife and I would be glad to buy you a plant based lunch! TMR

 

[txdon]

TMR will that be HWY 290 you will be traveling on to Austin? We are 17 miles off Hwy 290. At HWY 290 in Giddings there is a good Subway. Closest SouperSalad is in Austin - 60 miles.

edit: Here is another place to meet, my wife's favorite in Austin.
http://www.casadeluz.org/

 

[CowboyRon]

Sorry I caught this thread late, and have not read all of the post.
I am 46 years old and have been naturally slender all of my life, until now. I was getting a pot belly, and getting close to 200lbs. I still had good bp and cholesterol, but was quite disgusted with my appearance. I started going to a Mexican fruteria everyday for lunch instead of fast food, and getting a large fruit and veggy plate. The funny thing is I feel great, I don't crave sodas or candy and my energy level is good. I'm not a full fledged vegan by any means, and these eating habits are in the early stages. My belly is getting flatter, and so far so good.
I guess what's funny about this is I raise cattle, maybe I should switch to growing produce now also.
As far as diets go, I think the oldest one is still the best. The bible has lots of good eating habits that the old Hebrews used to follow.
Thanks all and have a great night.

 

[TMR]

TMR will that be HWY 290 you will be traveling on to Austin? We are 17 miles off Hwy 290. At HWY 290 in Giddings there is a good Subway. Closest SouperSalad is in Austin - 60 miles.

txdon...yes, looks like 290 all the way past Austin continuing to I10 at Harper...then I10 west for a long way...1144 miles to Palm Springs. Plan to leave Conroe early AM Wednesday March 7th.

Not sure how far from Conroe to txdon land? We have time to meet for a cup of coffee and a piece of whole grain toast along the way

Our ETA in Palm Springs is not until Friday mid-day.

TMR

P.S. Maybe PM me?...TMR

 

[Egon]

The bible has lots of good eating habits that the old Hebrews used to follow./QUOTE]

Just remember that this diet was adapted for a hot climate with limited rain and no refrigeration!

 

[dmccarty]

Dan, come on up to the South Shore and get a nice plate of Fish & chips. Nice fresh fish, solid slab pan broiled.:thumbsup:

Ya, know, Fish and Chips makes me sick. I cannot tolerate food with lots of fat. Fried food done right should not have lots of oil in the batter but I have yet to have fish and chips that did not make me sick. No BROILED fish would be good. :licking:

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

It's a shame lobster has about the same amount of cholesterol per ounce as beef. let's not even talk about the butter sauce. Scallops have about half the amount of cholesterol as lobsters, and Halibut is in-between.

The wifey and I really prefer shrimp over lobsters.

Historical Tid Bit. Years ago I ran across some article about lobster eating in the US colonies. Lobster was cheap food back then and plentiful but apparently not well liked. Servants protested being fed lobster all of the time so agreements were reached so that the servants would ONLY have to eat lobster a couple of times a week.

I guess the servants would rather have blood pudding. :ashamed::confused2:

Later,
Dan

 

[txdon]

I went to a healthy shrimp website and the only food they could compare it to to sound even a bit heart healthy was eggs. It made me laugh. So if you want to consume it in "MODERATION" you will probably will just get a moderate heart attack. I really need to change the title of this thread to "Heart Healthy Eating for Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease". Every animal product advertiser wants to say how healthy their product is compared to another animal product instead of comparing them to plants when it comes to heart health.

 

[Egon]

I always question the source of the Shrimp.

Scallops fried in olive oil with garlic are my favorite.:thumbsup:

Don't agree with the harvesting method though as it may be hard on the habitat.

 

[txdon]

Egon I think your messing with me but I'll play along.

Olive oil? Scallops?

An ounce of scallops 15mg cholesterol. What is that one-two scallops?

"Olive oil has between 14 and 17 percent saturated, artery clogging fat which is every bit as aggressive in promoting heart disease as the saturated fat in roast beef."


"And even though through a Mediterranean style diet that allows such oils may slow the rate of progression of coronary artery disease, when compared with diets even higher in saturated fats, it does not arrest the disease or reverse it's effects.

...Lyon Diet Heart Study: By the end of the study nearly four years after is start, fully 25 percent of the subjects on the Mediterranean Diet - one out of four- had either died or experienced some new cardiovascular event."

Also Rober Voglel's experiment showed that after eating bread dipped in olive oil reduced the dilation of brachial artery that is normally seen with the brachial artery tourniquet test. "This suggest temporary injury to the endothelia cells compromising their ability to produce nitric oxide" which is the bodies protection against heart disease.

Also I did the Mediterranean Diet which uses the "good oils" (joke) and had a heart attack. I did loose 25 pounds five years ago with it, but if I would have cut out the oils I wouldn't feel like I damage myself in the long run.

Quotes by Cadwell Esselstyn, Jr., MD

 

[beppington]

Ate lunch at our local "Jason's Deli" which has a really great salad bar, & watched a very, very large man ... who I would assume was eating the salad bar for health reasons ... take amongst other things of course 2 whole boiled eggs & top the salad with a full ladle of creamy ranch dressing. He might as well have consumed the whopper & fries he probably really wanted.

 

[dmccarty]

I always question the source of the Shrimp.

Scallops fried in olive oil with garlic are my favorite.:thumbsup:

Don't agree with the harvesting method though as it may be hard on the habitat.

So you won't eat a bottom feeding scavenger but you will eat the critter the filters the water? :laughing:

I like them all! :laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[txdon]

beepington, you just reminded me of our meal at SouperSalads yesterday. Big man, huge salad piled 6" high overflowing on the plate and then the ladles of ranch started flowing (and there is no low fat ranch there) total 6 ladles you could not even see the salad and the ranch was dripping over onto the tray. At least along with a week of fat he got a days worth of good nutrients with the salad. (Ranch dressing 27g fat per serving.)

Jasons is dangerous with the condiments of that buttery garlic toast and the hummus (half of the calories are from fat). The greens and the variety vegetables are good and it is a buffet salad bar! They do have vegetarian soups but again they cannot resist the adding of artery clogging oil. 60 of the 150 calories are from fat in a bowl.

 

[brin]

beepington, you just reminded me of our meal at SouperSalads yesterday. Big man, huge salad piled 6" high overflowing on the plate and then the ladles of ranch started flowing (and there is no low fat ranch there) total 6 ladles you could not even see the salad and the ranch was dripping over onto the tray. At least along with a week of fat he got a days worth of good nutrients with the salad. (Ranch dressing 27g fat per serving.)

Jasons is dangerous with the condiments of that buttery garlic toast and the hummus (half of the calories are from fat). The greens and the variety vegetables are good and it is a buffet salad bar! They do have vegetarian soups but again they cannot resist the adding of artery clogging oil. 60 of the 150 calories are from fat in a bowl.

Don, almost 20 yrs. ago when I changed my diet just because I wanted to be thin....I gave up all fats, carbs unless they came from veggies, white flour anything, white rice etc. and folks laughed at me...I lost 60 lbs..and have kept it off ...I am 6'1" and weigh 172 #...I ignored the naysayers....you please do the same...:thumbsup:

 

[Egon]

Don; just saying what I like.

Them Lobsters are a little more fussy at the table than many think.

I like Lobster, shrimp, scallops, clams, oysters, crabs and an assortment of fish.

Don't like farmed fish though.

 

[TMR]

Don, almost 20 yrs. ago when I changed my diet just because I wanted to be thin....I gave up all fats, carbs unless they came from veggies, white flour anything, white rice etc. and folks laughed at me...I lost 60 lbs..and have kept it off ...I am 6'1" and weigh 172 #...I ignored the naysayers....you please do the same...:thumbsup:

Great work Brin! I started Nov 2011...down 20# but still have at least 20 more pounds for initial goal of 170...and I am only 5'10". I plan on re-assessing WHEN I get to 170 :thumbsup:

Still working on the full spirit of the no added fat part of the diet. Seem to "rationalize" the low fat dressing and a few other items...but getting there. Whole grains/vegetables/fruits/almond milk...are great. Moderate added fat and candy have been a bit more difficult to get rid of...

We (wife and I) are very determined to keep working toward Esselstyn defined eating/lifestyle. We have come a long way since 10/31/2011 and need to continue to improve.

I was a very fussy vegetable eater and still need to broaden my "approved" choices. Added banana peppers to the approved list at lunch today. Pre- 10/31 I essentially only ate green beans and corn...along with just about every bad food there was...and lots of it.

Thank you for your contribution...you and Don are motivating me to continue to down the plant based...no added fat...lifestyle. TMR

 

[pacerron]

Arrow, it is a constant battle to find the culprits. Before my heart attack I thought I was doing good, even got my cholesterol to normal (but not cardiologist normal as I found out after my heart attack) and the DR. was comfortable taking me off statins. I was no meat but also did not eliminate oils and heavy fat foods (avocados and nuts). Esselstyn explained the no fats aspect and I got it. I hope that was the loose end because that is something I can and have corrected. As TMR, my heart meds have been cut twice and the cardiologist felt safe cutting my cholesterol in half after several LDLs of 40. As you know the cardiologist normal cholesterol numbers are lower than the normal for others. (my goals are LDL less than 70 and total less than 150) My BP is 98/70 and HR-50-60. Just this week my Cardiologist cut my last heart pill (beta blocker) to 1/4 tablet. This was the second cut in half.

My Family DR. recommended taking fish oil to increase my HDL but I told her I was not taking animal products or oils and that Dr. Esselstyn advises to take one tablespoon of Flax seed meal a day. She was OK with that. I get the omega 3 without the excess fat. Oh, when you don't eat meat you need less omega 3. .

Don,
It would be interesting to know your TG/HDL ratio, your CRP after being off statins, and if you take daily aspirin?