Anything but a hydro...why?

[TripleR]

We must be unique around here, but we seem to have an abundance of "toy gentlemans tractors" in use by active farmers here. Our renters run 7000 and 8000 Series John Deeres and use a 4610 eHydro for FEL, dirt, trenching, moving material, tanks etc.

Geared units have their place and so do HST's, we run some of each. I have ball peen hammers as well as claw hammers; different jobs/tasks different tools.

 

[ruffdog]

So I am guessing that is why all them bulldozers, earthmovers, and excavators that use some form of hydrostatic drive are all piloted by them thar gentleman toy driving suburbanite tuxedo wearing types then huh?:laughing::laughing:

James K0UA

That's funny! My neighbor is one of those excavator people that has a loader big enough to put my tractor in his bucket. Funny I never hear his shifting gears with his equipment.

 

[k0ua]

We must be unique around here, but we seem to have an abundance of "toy gentlemans tractors" in use by active farmers here. Our renters run 7000 and 8000 Series John Deeres and use a 4610 eHydro for FEL, dirt, trenching, moving material, tanks etc.

Geared units have their place and so do HST's, we run some of each. I have ball peen hammers as well as claw hammers; different jobs/tasks different tools.

That's pretty funny TripleR. Yes I bet them toy gentleman farmers might take offense if you took their hydro toys away from them:laughing:.

Oh geez.. this hydro vs gear thing always seems to go on and on and on. Over 50 years now and the hydro is still a toy in some peoples mind... There is no end... Just get the one you want. It doesn't really matter.

James K0UA

 

[jenkinsph]

So I am guessing that is why all them bulldozers, earthmovers, and excavators that use some form of hydrostatic drive are all piloted by them thar gentleman toy driving suburbanite tuxedo wearing types then huh?:laughing::laughing:

James K0UA

Yep, I been doin it wrong guess I need to change costumes to switch between my gear and hydro tractors.:laughing:

I should mention that the OP did mention the difference between selecting the tranny with heavy agricultural field use not being an issue. I think it is well accepted that for field work in open areas that a gear tractor is a more efficient drivetrain. This difference in efficientcy will help keep the operating costs /acre lower and is a good reason to utilize gear tractors for field work. Most people buying a compact tractor are not farming large acreages professionally either and may need to change speed and direction fifty times in the same expanse of time it takes a real farmer to get to the end of a row. It should be obvious that their needs and uses are very different and what works for one ideally may not be the best choice for the others needs.

 

[k0ua]

Yep, I been doin it wrong guess I need to change costumes to switch between my gear and hydro tractors.:laughing:

I should mention that the OP did mention the difference between selecting the tranny with heavy agricultural field use not being an issue. I think it is well accepted that for field work in open areas that a gear tractor is a more efficient drivetrain. This difference in efficientcy will help keep the operating costs /acre lower and is a good reason to utilize gear tractors for field work. Most people buying a compact tractor are not farming large acreages professionally either and may need to change speed and direction fifty times in the same expanse of time it takes a real farmer to get to the end of a row. It should be obvious that their needs and uses are very different and what works for one ideally may not be the best choice for the others needs.

Agreed, If plowing the field was my primary task I would probably have a gear tractor too. I just couldn't resist the "toy gentleman" thing.. too funny!

James K0UA

 

[TripleR]

That's pretty funny TripleR. Yes I bet them toy gentleman farmers might take offense if you took their hydro toys away from them:laughing:.

Oh geez.. this hydro vs gear thing always seems to go on and on and on. Over 50 years now and the hydro is still a toy in some peoples mind... There is no end... Just get the one you want. It doesn't really matter.

James K0UA

I am old enough to remember when "real men" drove stick shift trucks" while "windshield farmers" etc. drove automatics. Go out on a farm or construction site and compare gear v automatic.

 

[Reg]

Again, many/most of us aren't stacking pallets or loading sand into trucks in a 50 by 60ft area "All day long" either, which is where hydros (supposedly) really SHINE !
A lot of us just don't like the idea of being able to walk alongside a driverless vehicle and putting a hand on the fwd pedal every few feet either, JUST for convenience.
It isn't a "safety police" thing, it is just plain DUMB (IMO, etc.)
Not the sort of work habit I would want to see adopted by family members HERE !!!
(Monkey see, monkey do)

I do "a little bit of this", "a little bit of that", then not much of anything at all for quite a while (-:
I haven't built up a huge left leg calf muscle as a result of using gear tractors, though I don't suppose it would atrophy if I had all hydros.

In the Cat 1 and Cat 2 range that "Most of us" seem to run and the uses that "most of us" seem to put them to - hydro may be a "nice to have",
but there is a cost and for ME(first person, but the most important person, IMO) there are better opportunities for that expenditure.

The body can "take it" for a few more years of "Oh, so HARD" work with the left foot.

This topic is almost a popular as the R4s vs R1s rants & raves (-:

 

[jenkinsph]

I think it is common knowledge that alot of the younger people today have little experience with manual transmissions in road vehicles and I am sure that this carries over to their new small tractor purchases being hydro as a result. At the same time alot of the old timers remember how crappy the early automatic transmissions in road vehicles were and shops such as AAMCO(spelling?) were everywhere you looked. While the hydrostatic transmission is a completely different animal than an automatic transmission in your personal vehicle the memories are easily clouded by this.

What is more important to me is the opinions of those who have alot of time operating BOTH hydro and gear machines. For instance there is a huge difference in the shifting ease and effort between a sliding gear tranny and a newer mechanical reverser such as some of the gear tractor owners have. There is also differences between the hydrostatic transmissions too, I wouldn't lump them all together either. IMO it helps to be a member of both camps to sort out the differences.

 

[k0ua]

I think it is common knowledge that alot of the younger people today have little experience with manual transmissions in road vehicles and I am sure that this carries over to their new small tractor purchases being hydro as a result. At the same time alot of the old timers remember how crappy the early automatic transmissions in road vehicles were and shops such as AAMCO(spelling?) were everywhere you looked. While the hydrostatic transmission is a completely different animal than an automatic transmission in your personal vehicle the memories are easily clouded by this.

What is more important to me is the opinions of those who have alot of time operating BOTH hydro and gear machines. For instance there is a huge difference in the shifting ease and effort between a sliding gear tranny and a newer mechanical reverser such as some of the gear tractor owners have. There is also differences between the hydrostatic transmissions too, I wouldn't lump them all together either. IMO it helps to be a member of both camps to sort out the differences.

Agreed again, My dad never owned another automatic transmission vehicle after his vision was clouded by poor results from the late 40's and early 50's versions of them.. He always thought they were junk and prone to breakage. I have lots of both types. and have spent more hours on gear tractors than hydro, but I am still a proponent of hydro for loader work for the precision and control, and the safety and ease of use by untrained untested personel.

James K0UA

 

[ruffdog]

Could you imagine how fun a geared skid steer would be with its clutches?:confused2: It seems skid steers with their hydro drive hold together ok.

 

[bigbull338]

well ill tell yall a good 1 our 85hp cab fel 2wd tractor has been parked all winter.an weve been using the mx5100 hst 4x4 w/rops an fel all winter.

 

[jenkinsph]

Could you imagine how fun a geared skid steer would be with its clutches?:confused2: It seems skid steers with their hydro drive hold together ok.

I was thinking about that earlier.


My dog saw your dogs picture and said to tell him em he wants to meet him after school.

 

[DK35vince]

Could you imagine how fun a geared skid steer would be with its clutches?:confused2: It seems skid steers with their hydro drive hold together ok.

I'm not sure what a skid steer has to do with tractors?
I have thousands of hours running skid steers. Tough as nails and strong for their size. And the hydro drive system in skid steers is excellant.
I sure wouldn't want to run a gear drive skid steer.
But I use my tractors completely differant than I use a skid steer.
So a shuttle shift on my tractor works just fine for me.

 

[WM75Guy]

I am old enough to remember when "real men" drove stick shift trucks" while "windshield farmers" etc. drove automatics. Go out on a farm or construction site and compare gear v automatic.

GM does not have a stick even as an option.

 

[TripleR]

GM does not have a stick even as an option.

Thanks, I didn't know that. My brother always preferred stick shifts, but his new Chevy truck is an automatic.

 

[Soundguy]

I've never driven a mechanical shuttle .......................They say that shuttle transmissions are great for loader work, but I can't imagine that doing any amount of loader work would be practical for a clutched machine, C

funny..

you've never used one.. but don't think it will be good..


shuttle style trannies.. especially synchro ones make for decent laoder work.. with the qualities of a gear trans one might also want.

i have a ford 5 spd from the 50-60's era.. with it's 3/r on the top gate it makes for almost aan unsynchro shuttle.. and makes for decent loader work.. and it's not even a real shuttle..

 

[Reg]

So I am guessing that is why all them bulldozers, earthmovers, and excavators that use some form of hydrostatic drive are all piloted by them thar gentleman toy driving suburbanite tuxedo wearing types then huh?:laughing::laughing:

James K0UA

What Boeing put in large jet liners may be totally inappropriate for a Cesna.
Different pilot profiles too, but that may be beyond your grasp.

 

[jenkinsph]

I'm not sure what a skid steer has to do with tractors?
I have thousands of hours running skid steers. Tough as nails and strong for their size. And the hydro drive system in skid steers is excellant.
I sure wouldn't want to run a gear drive skid steer.
But I use my tractors completely differant than I use a skid steer.
So a shuttle shift on my tractor works just fine for me.

Most of the forum members don't have a separate skidsteer, they use the fel for these tasks, for this reason the hydro can make more sense.

 

[Reg]

Could you imagine how fun a geared skid steer would be with its clutches?:confused2: It seems skid steers with their hydro drive hold together ok.

I "imagine" it would/could be very much like driving a tricycle tractor and steering with brakes (only).
Those "held together" pretty well, as far as I know.

Not that a trike is appropriate for construction site work; but Hey, why stay on topic ? (-:

 

[Gary Fowler]

I dont think comparing powershift track vehicles like dozers and large loaders is any way like comparing hydrostatic transmissions. Dozers are not hydrostatic drive. A hydrostatic uses an engine to turn a hydraulic pump that then supplies power to a hydraulic powered motor that moves the tractor. That is not how dozers /large loaders are powered. They are more similar to an automatic transmission in a car than hydrostat.
As for the hydro vs gear, everyone can argue that one or the other is better but that opinion is based on their personal use and not to be confused with one machine being a better machine than the other. Each has their place which is why the tractor manufacturers make both types so many folks can have a choice. We for sure dont want to get like many other countries where you dont have a choice in what to buy as youbuy what the government dictates to be the best for you.
I will give you a good for instance, Peru, you cant buy an automatic transmission car or truck, they must be standard shift. You can import an automatic at super high duty fees if you insist on owning one. This is the same with lots of 3rd world countries who only allow standard gear drive vehicles and most if not all run on diesel rather than USA standard of mostly gasoline. Most all vehicles are limited in size of engine also so there isnt a lot of gas guzzlers around.
We are still (lucky might not be the right word) priviledged to be able to buy what we want and need at least so far. I wont go any further on the political agenda than that.