Anything but a hydro...why?

[Kodthree]

The hydro allows you to creep slowly when using attachments like a tiller or snowblower. I grew up with all geared tractors and they were not as "handy" as the hydro I have now. Sometimes I need my wife to drive me close to a building or tree when I'm in the bucket. I feel much "safer" being that the tractor is a hydro with her driving. Also, it is much more precise when positioning a post hole digger exactly where I want it. I still use the neighbors old furgason and allis wd tractors when I help him bale hay. They are just more of a pain to use unless you are out in the field.

Nailed it! Also, I like the hydro best for managing traction instead of having to feather a clutch, or while hooking up to any implement, front or rear. More expensive and, robs a little bit of power (compared to a geared tranny in the same tractor), and possibly (?) more expensive to fix if it breaks. Our hydro is so easy to operate, i taught my wife to use it safely in about 20 minutes. Because of this, I now am able to have some help when bringing logs in from the property. I can also now expect her to be able to use it in an emergency situation should one occur. Intimidation factor for the HST is very low.
Good luck making your own decision! BTW, NEVER use the bucket as a manlift.

 

[s219]

My Kioti CK30HST has 30 engine hp and 22 PTO hp. The geared version is 30 engine hp and 23 PTO hp. That not a big difference and I don't find it sluggish in anyway shape or form.

If you are able to try the same tractor in gear and hydro configurations, you'll notice a difference in the way they put the power to the ground -- it's analogous to what you would observe comparing a car with both manual and automatic transmissions. The gear tractor will feel a lot snappier and have more pep.

The difference in PTO power due to an HST doesn't translate to the difference in wheel or "drawbar" power. That's because the power takes different paths when going through the PTO (generally live/mechanical in modern tractors) compared to going to the wheels (would be mechanical on a geared tractor, but fluid on a hydro tractor).

The HST causes a small loss in available power because the engine is independently running the transmission plumbing. That means there is less power available for everything else, including the PTO. Generally, running an HST pump results in a 1-2HP hit. You can consider that a parasitic loss of having HST plumbing attached to the engine, and it affects anything downstream of the engine, including the PTO.

There would be an additional hit from the HST on wheel or "drawbar" horsepower, since not only do we have that existing parasitic pump loss dragging on the engine, but now the actual drivetrain power is flowing through the molasses of the HST before it gets to the ground. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but it's got to be in the 5-7% range (comparable to automatic transmissions on a car), and is definitely noticeable through the seat of your pants.

So what it comes down to is that the HST loses 1-2HP to everything, including PTO and wheels, and then there is another 5-7% loss getting to the wheels. A geared tractor would not have either of those additional losses.

 

[jinman]

Speaking of HST, gears, and shuttle shifts. The truth is that every HST I've ever seen was also a gear tractor. The ranges (2 or 3) are all changed with a non-synchronized gear transmission. One day, they will come out with a HST tractor with an electronic synchro-shuttle for changing gear ranges and I'll be first in line to buy one.:thumbsup: . . . if it ain't too expensive.

 

[CJONE]

I grew up on heavy equipment everything except a John Deere skidder had either shuttle or power shift. The small skidder was ok with the gear tranny but not good. I rented a Komatsu dozer once and was not told it was a clutch and gear model. What a joke for doing serious work, I never even knew a clutched dozer was availible. The next day a hystat was on the job, now that is a sweet piece of equipment. From that day on everything, even my lawntractor has a hydrostat in it. I still do alot with class 7 and 8 trucks and more and more we are seeing automatics in the big rigs, less parts breakage and better on the operator. CJ

 

[nybirdman]

Speaking of HST, gears, and shuttle shifts. The truth is that every HST I've ever seen was also a gear tractor. The ranges (2 or 3) are all changed with a non-synchronized gear transmission. One day, they will come out with a HST tractor with an electronic synchro-shuttle for changing gear ranges and I'll be first in line to buy one.:thumbsup: . . . if it ain't too expensive.

They already do:HST+ at least two choices within the range.

 

[kiotiken]

Speaking of HST, gears, and shuttle shifts. The truth is that every HST I've ever seen was also a gear tractor. The ranges (2 or 3) are all changed with a non-synchronized gear transmission. One day, they will come out with a HST tractor with an electronic synchro-shuttle for changing gear ranges and I'll be first in line to buy one.:thumbsup: . . . if it ain't too expensive.

It's call HST+ at Kubota, and yes, it is expensive. JD has a similar version, can't remember what they call it.

Sorry, didn't see nybirdman beat me to it.

 

[Shooter45]

And you are probably happy as a clam.. do not EVER use a hydro tractor, especially for loader work or tight mowing or anything that requires a lot of directional changes, because all it will do is cause hate and discontent. Don't ask me how I know

James K0UA

I've used hydro's before and yes they are nice. Just not my cup of tea as I prefer geared transmissions (even on loader work).

 

[Jay4200]

I did think about the backhoe situation - I am one to hang over the seat and click it into gear to move forward or backwards. A clutch would make this impossible. OTOH, I usually just drag my tractor around as needed using the backhoe - my Woods 9000 can throw my L4200 around like so much tissue paper.

While snowblowing appears to be a perfect Hydro job, I'm beginning to wonder. For doing the parking areas, which are analogous to a Terry Bozzio solo in independence complexity, no doubt a hydro would be ideal setup. However, during the 1000' of grueling running down the driveway, I think my hydro-shuttle-gear (GST) is pretty good. I kind of sit sidesaddle in the cockpit so my head doesn't twist off - I think holding a hydro pedal would be impossible. If it had cruise control, however, that would be fine. I don't know if the mechanical shuttle I'm thinking about (it's an L2250) can be shifted on the fly. If not, it's out. Not being able to change gears while moving would be so impractical that I wouldn't want to operate it.

JayC

 

[boatyard]

I have never driven a tractor with a Hst tranny so I can't speak to the pros and cons. I bought a lease return tractor that was big enough for my needs, at a cost I could afford and it had shuttle shift. Works fine. It is paid for. If there is a next tractor, I will have to make a choice. If Hst is anything like an automatic tranny, a bit of a bore, I will go running back to the shuttle shift.

But when my neighbor fires up his Kubota with Hst I always know because of the nasty whining noise that I can hear at 500 feet. I assume that ear protection is a good idea. Do they all whine like that?

 

[kiotiken]

I did think about the backhoe situation - I am one to hang over the seat and click it into gear to move forward or backwards. A clutch would make this impossible. OTOH, I usually just drag my tractor around as needed using the backhoe - my Woods 9000 can throw my L4200 around like so much tissue paper.

...I think holding a hydro pedal would be impossible. If it had cruise control, however, that would be fine.
JayC

Tossing the tractor around with the bh will depend a little on the tractor. Kubota is a light tractor. My Woods BH-70x can't lift and move the back of my Kioti CK30 with loaded tires. I've never tried leaving it in neutral and pulling or pushing with the bh, that might work.

...But when my neighbor fires up his Kubota with Hst I always know because of the nasty whining noise that I can hear at 500 feet. I assume that ear protection is a good idea. Do they all whine like that?

My old JD 955 whined louder than my 2 year old, but my CK30 has no noticeable HST whine at all.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

My new CT230 is a hydro. Only problem is I occasionally find myself pushing the clutch and trying to manually shift gears to go backwards before I remember to just rock the pedal back. DUH! :laughing:

 

[Piston]

I'd say look no further than this thread to see why all CUTs are not hydro. Some folks want gears and would not buy a tractor without them. CUT manufacturers would eliminate a huge market if they went all hydro. They'd also be beset with thousands of complaints. There's plenty of things a geared tractor does better to keep that market very profitable

On the other side of this statement, I think if some larger tractors were also available in HST the manufacturers would sell more of them. I have an HST now and really want to get a bigger tractor, however, I love the HST so much that it is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a bigger, more capable tractor.

Will they start offering the larger tractors with HST in the future? Or is there a point where HST is just not effective enough to be efficiently manufactured?

If I could get a JD 5M with Hydro, I'd "add to cart" right now!

 

[Jay4200]

Tossing the tractor around with the bh will depend a little on the tractor. Kubota is a light tractor. My Woods BH-70x can't lift and move the back of my Kioti CK30 with loaded tires. I've never tried leaving it in neutral and pulling or pushing with the bh, that might work.

Yea, I believe that my L4200 with HD loader and BH weighs in somewhere right around 6000 pounds. I can lift, throw, drag, and drop my tractor with the backhoe effortlessly. It doesn't make any difference if the parking brake is on or not, and/or if the front end is lifted too with the bucket. OTOH, my BH9000 backhoe is a real beast.

JayC

 

[Ken]

And you are probably happy as a clam.. do not EVER use a hydro tractor, especially for loader work or tight mowing or anything that requires a lot of directional changes, because all it will do is cause hate and discontent. Don't ask me how I know

James K0UA

This man could be still driving a Ford Model "T" When the "A" came out the "T" was put in the barn. Old Henry held for mechanical brakes until must of been in the 40's Hydraulics won there also.
Then the Auto transmission my sister had a '48 Dodge with clutch and slush box transmission.At a traffic light either shift or floorboard the throttle pedal and hang on it will move shortly.

The old Fergerson or the Ford model 9 series of farm tractors were good in there day but improvements continued until we have Hydro.
I will take almost any type as long as it is shuttle shift Hydro shift power reverser or what ever it is called
still shifted by fluid.
ken

 

[Travesh]

My new CT230 is a hydro. Only problem is I occasionally find myself pushing the clutch and trying to manually shift gears to go backwards before I remember to just rock the pedal back. DUH! :laughing:

None of my HST tractors have clutch pedals. Are some of us missing out? My New Holland has two non-synchronized mechanical ranges. Are you able to shift between ranges on the move by engaging the clutch pedal?

 

[wny770]

Yeah, I was "old school" until I got "old".


Boy, 'aint that the truth.....:laughing:

 

[Travesh]

On the other side of this statement, I think if some larger tractors were also available in HST the manufacturers would sell more of them. I have an HST now and really want to get a bigger tractor, however, I love the HST so much that it is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a bigger, more capable tractor.

Will they start offering the larger tractors with HST in the future? Or is there a point where HST is just not effective enough to be efficiently manufactured?

If I could get a JD 5M with Hydro, I'd "add to cart" right now!

Couldn't agree more. So there are apparently a number of us out there and we're all wrong.

I use a utility tractor for loader work, road maintenance, snowblowing, field mowing, etc. The only one of those areas where HST isn't a clear winner is the mowing.

So I'm queued up right behind you waiting on the HST 5M.

 

[Grandad4]

On the other side of this statement, I think if some larger tractors were also available in HST the manufacturers would sell more of them. I have an HST now and really want to get a bigger tractor, however, I love the HST so much that it is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying a bigger, more capable tractor.

Will they start offering the larger tractors with HST in the future? Or is there a point where HST is just not effective enough to be efficiently manufactured?

If I could get a JD 5M with Hydro, I'd "add to cart" right now!

As a point of reference, all Caterpillar track loaders (up to 263 hp and 62,000 lbs, their largest) are hydrostats. Cat Products: Products>Current Machine Line>Track Loaders>Large Track Loaders>973D So it's possible to build a really big HST when it makes sense.

 

[kiotiken]

None of my HST tractors have clutch pedals. Are some of us missing out? My New Holland has two non-synchronized mechanical ranges. Are you able to shift between ranges on the move by engaging the clutch pedal?

Daedong CUTs (Kioti/Bobcat/McCormick/Landini) do have a clutch pedal on the HST model. You can't start it unless it's pushed in and they have a lock to lock it open if it's being stored, other than that, it's not used. I could be completely wrong, but I think some Kubotas have them too.

You can only shift on the move with the Kubota HST+ (I believe JD has a version called eHydro). Daedong uses the older HST type transmission and you have to stop to change ranges.

http://www.kubota.com/f/products/L40flash/index.html

 

[TripleR]

Daedong CUTs (Kioti/Bobcat/McCormick/Landini) do have a clutch pedal on the HST model. You can't start it unless it's pushed in and they have a lock to lock it open if it's being stored, other than that, it's not used. I could be completely wrong, but I think some Kubotas have them too.

You can only shift on the move with the Kubota HST+ (I believe JD has a version called eHydro). Daedong uses the older HST type transmission and you have to stop to change ranges.

Yeah, Kubota has them, but I wish they didn't.