Anything but a hydro...why?

[Jay4200]

So I've been looking for a second tractor, and I am considering one that has a mechanical shuttle transmission. I really want a hydro, but I'm just going to use it infrequently for basic maintenance tasks and to carry a backhoe, so it doesn't really matter. I guess I'd have to get it really cheap, although I'm on the fence whether or not to even go look at it.

I've never driven a mechanical shuttle - from what I can gather, it's basically a straight gear tranny that goes in either direction - clutch required to do everything? There is always the worry of ending up with a burnt clutch too - is replacing a clutch plate a big deal? They say that shuttle transmissions are great for loader work, but I can't imagine that doing any amount of loader work would be practical for a clutched machine, regardless of having a shuttle reverser.

OTOH, my current tractor (Kubota L4200) is a glide-shift, or clutchless synchronized shuttle, and I do love my tractor, but it can get downright confusing at times - especially while running my snowblower in parking areas (lots of back and forth and snow re-direction) - shifting gears, chopping and stomping the speed pedal, working the shuttle shift, steering (backwards), and working the dual hydraulic chute controls all simultaneously...I'm a drummer and have pretty good independence, but I don't think I could work a clutch pedal into the mix on top of all of that. I surely believe that a hydro is the right tool for that job. Or any job?

Then I have to wonder, why aren't all CUTs hydrostatic? I don't think too many people pull plows on 100 acre fields with 4WD CUTs, so what common CUT task would actually be made easier or be done better with a gear tractor, and why would anyone want one?

JayC

 

[Willl]

Don't know about anybody else Jay, but I went with gear because I'm old school, it's what I grew up with and it's what I know how to work on.

Heck, the truck I own now is my first auto.

Hydro trannys baffle me.

 

[powerpace]

I have a B3200HST. It is a life saver. I had a Allis-Chalmers geared that had to have a directional valve pushed in when you used the FEL or BB. In for one out for the other. That was a killer especially with a back problem and arthritis in the left hip.
I grew up driving any one of 8 to 10 tractors most geared for working the ground with big equipment and long hours.

 

[MasseyWV]

I went with gear because I'm old school, it's what I grew up with and it's what I know how to work on.

Same here.

 

[wcampbell47]

I have had a geared tractor for five years and did a lot of loader work. I recently purchased a B3200HST which is much better for loader work hands down. A lot of clutching and shifting with the geared tractor.

 

[TripleR]

Yeah, I was "old school" until I got "old". I grew up farming and ran geared units most of my life. I now have tractors I can no longer drive due to bad hip, knee, back...

I still drive a geared tractor, M8540, but it is hydro shuttle.

As to burning a clutch, we have never burned one out though the one on our 54 NAA is probably getting close. We did a LOT of loader work as well as direction changes mowing hills for 12 years with a synchro shuttle on our CX80 and no problems.

I know of no common CUT task made "easier" with gears.

 

[k0ua]

I have more hours in gear tractors than Hydro, but it Hydro for me from now on for the normal CUT tasks. I do mostly landscaping/dirt /loader work. When you work all day with a loader, with gear my left knee and leg was barely able to get off a gear tractor and walk to the house. I am getting old too.
Maybe this will help understanding the transmission types.


http://www.tractorsmart.com/main/Tractor Transmission Types.htm

James K0UA

 

[kiotiken]

So I've been looking for a second tractor, and I am considering one that has a mechanical shuttle transmission. I really want a hydro, but I'm just going to use it infrequently for basic maintenance tasks and to carry a backhoe, so it doesn't really matter.

The disadvantage of hydro is it robs a little power. Personally, I'd say if you are running an implement that needs 25 PTO hp, get a tractor that's got 30 or more. If hydro vs gear makes enough difference (.5hp in my model) between being able to run an implement or not, you're cutting it too close anyway.

I wouldn't have anything but a hydro for backhoe work. No you shouldn't, but it's very nice to simply reach to the front of the tractor from the bh seat, raise the FEL, use a stick to push the hydro pedal and move ahead to keep digging. Getting off the bh, jumping off the tractor, moving and reversing the process would be exhausting if you were digging a few hundred feet of trench.

 

[Gittyup]

I am an HST advocate; love them. But, I went with shuttle shift on my CUT because it allowed me to put more power to ground. I think this is only an issue when the tractor is marginal on power for it's weight with an HST. Gaining back a few HP is significant at the lower end of the hp spectrum. I also saved a good bit of money. To get comparable power from an HST I would have had to move up a notch in HP. That price difference, coupled with the HST upgrade, meant about $2500 more for the tractor. I didn't need HST bad enough to justify it.

Now, after 6 years of using shuttle to move well over 1000 tons of materials, I don't really see the HST as that much better at loader work. Less tiring, yes. But operating the clutch has never seemed to be that big of a deal for me. And has pointed out by others, sometimes you wish you had about dozen arms and legs to operate all the things you need to at one time. Here, the HST is much easier.

In some configurations, using split brakes is not practical on HST's. The value here, depends on how much you use this feature.

At the end of the day, if you can afford (and are willing to pay) the models with adequate HP in HST, HST is the better choice. I could neither afford, nor was I willing to pay to up-charge. And I love my Shuttle beast.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I bought geared because I like them, less to go wrong, less maintenance and cheaper maintenance. I used mine several days building a pond which was 10 hours a day back and forth clutching and changing forward and reverse. I was less tired doing that than 30 minutes on my brother in laws hydro New Holland. Maybe it was just the position that I had to hold my foot and leg to work the pedals on his, but I could hardly get off the tractor my leg was so cramped up. I prefer gear and a clutch that I only have to touch when I want to stop and or change gears rather than a constant foot pressure on a hydro-pedal. Select the gear, Set the throttle at the speed you need and go, clutch, shift shuttle shift lever and go. THe power shift gear models are best of all worlds to my notion. You can change gears and directions without clutching and no power robbing hydro or hydro whine. You can set the throttle and shift away or use the foot throttle and throttle down for reversing. Is it better than hydro, up to the individual . Is hydro easier, to me not really, you just transfer the motion of clutch with left foot when needing to shift to constantly having the right foot moving between F and R and speed adjustment.

 

[ArtMech]

I'm a drummer and have pretty good independence

JayC

I was a drummer too nearly 20 years ago and it helps me now to operate a mech shuttle shift transmission. :laughing: Hope if your second tractor will be not a HST, it'll help you to feel your body in good shape within the rehearsals. Think twice ... :laughing::laughing:

 

[jenkinsph]

Having geared and hydro tractors currently I would say the only time the geared tractor is used is when I make a concious effort to give it some run time. All of us older guys had gear tractors, that's all we had until recently to use. We made it work but hydro transmissions are much easier to control the motion with. Most of the smaller cuts are hydro, because that is what most people want and I agree with "most people".

Most of the gearheads have never operated a hydro tractor long enough to get aquainted with them from what I have read here. A hydro tractor will do everything I want a tractor to do better than a gear tractor. In my landscaping business I seldom go over 150 feet without changing directions.

 

[jinman]

I'd say look no further than this thread to see why all CUTs are not hydro. Some folks want gears and would not buy a tractor without them. CUT manufacturers would eliminate a huge market if they went all hydro. They'd also be beset with thousands of complaints. There's plenty of things a geared tractor does better to keep that market very profitable. However, if you use a backhoe, loader, and do lots of directional changes with a mower/RC, then you will love the hydro. Once you discover that you can concentrate 99% of your attention on the task and only 1% on moving your foot on the hydro pedal, you'll see why we hydro owners love our tractors. You don't have to think about the tractor and go through the extra movements for a geared tractor. It doesn't matter how automatic those movements are, you still have do them.

I have a full-sized TLB with an electric shuttle, electric clutch, and torque converter drive. When I want to change directions, I just press a button for my clutch and throw the shuttle lever. It's very convenient, but nothing like my hydro.

 

[s219]

I have always been inclined towards geared transmissions because hydros rob a noticeable amount of power. This was very obvious to me about 12 years ago when shopping for a small mower/tractor -- the geared model was like a hot rod, while the hydro model felt like it was running on molasses, and was just pathetic. So I bought geared then, and that tractor continues to serve me well for mowing and lawn maintenance.

I did a fair amount of work on a JD 3005 over the summer/fall of 2011 cleaning up from Hurricane Irene, and the geared transmission/clutch combo worked fine for everything we did. To me, it confirmed my preference for geared.

However, when shopping for a new tractor for myself recently, I went hydro because it seemed like a better choice for what I wanted to do -- a lot of front loader work, landscaping, some tree work, and some light logging/skidding in tight quarters in the woods. Those things either require a lot of fwd/reverse motions, or very gentle controlled creeping, or both. After having used the tractor for a couple months, I am glad I went with HST this time around and think I made the right choice.

In this case, I consciously went for a higher horsepower tractor to offset some of the power loss of the HST, jumping from a 26HP B2620 to a 29HP B2920 (the tractors are otherwise identical). It seemed a little odd to pay another $700 just for 3HP, but to me that was the best way to get an HST and offset one of the known downsides.

 

[Shooter45]

I've always owned geared tractors so I really didn't even consider the hydro when I bought my latest tractor 4 months ago.

 

[k0ua]

I've always owned geared tractors so I really didn't even consider the hydro when I bought my latest tractor 4 months ago.

And you are probably happy as a clam.. do not EVER use a hydro tractor, especially for loader work or tight mowing or anything that requires a lot of directional changes, because all it will do is cause hate and discontent. Don't ask me how I know

James K0UA

 

[kiotiken]

I have always been inclined towards geared transmissions because hydros rob a noticeable amount of power. This was very obvious to me about 12 years ago when shopping for a small mower/tractor -- the geared model was like a hot rod, while the hydro model felt like it was running on molasses, and was just pathetic. So I bought geared then, and that tractor continues to serve me well for mowing and lawn maintenance.

I did a fair amount of work on a JD 3005 over the summer/fall of 2011 cleaning up from Hurricane Irene, and the geared transmission/clutch combo worked fine for everything we did. To me, it confirmed my preference for geared.

However, when shopping for a new tractor for myself recently, I went hydro because it seemed like a better choice for what I wanted to do -- a lot of front loader work, landscaping, some tree work, and some light logging/skidding in tight quarters in the woods. Those things either require a lot of fwd/reverse motions, or very gentle controlled creeping, or both. After having used the tractor for a couple months, I am glad I went with HST this time around and think I made the right choice.

In this case, I consciously went for a higher horsepower tractor to offset some of the power loss of the HST, jumping from a 26HP B2620 to a 29HP B2920 (the tractors are otherwise identical). It seemed a little odd to pay another $700 just for 3HP, but to me that was the best way to get an HST and offset one of the known downsides.

My Kioti CK30HST has 30 engine hp and 22 PTO hp. The geared version is 30 engine hp and 23 PTO hp. That not a big difference and I don't find it sluggish in anyway shape or form. I've never tried the gear version, it was never an option, so I can't compare. My argument would be that if I needed 23 PTO hp to run an implement, I should have bought the next size up, regardless of gear or HST, that's just cutting it to close. As far as putting the power to the ground, I think I'm at the perfect balancing point between hp and traction (with loaded tires and 1200 lbs bh), and that exactly where you want to be.

 

[Mark Page]

Geared tractors are great if your doing field type work like mowing. I run my 231s in high range 1st gear for hours with out touching the clutch.
My 1648 is hydro and can't be beat for loader work. You only have to worry about the wheel and the loader but never about speed, it becomes second nature. Far, far less fatiguing than reaching for a gear lever, presing down the clutch, slowing the engine down so the gears will synchronize, and selecting the right gear.

 

[cdaigle430]

Geared tractors are great if your doing field type work like mowing. I run my 231s in high range 1st gear for hours with out touching the clutch.
The 1648 is hydro and can't be beat for loader work. You only have to worry about the wheel and the loader but never about speed, it bcomes second nature. Far, far less fatiguing than reaching for a gear lever, presing down the clutch, slowing the engine down so the gears will synchronize, and selecting the right gear.

Hydro is my prefference as a homeowner. For farming or field work i would go manual. For heavy duty construction, shuttle shift.

 

[ruffdog]

The hydro allows you to creep slowly when using attachments like a tiller or snowblower. I grew up with all geared tractors and they were not as "handy" as the hydro I have now. Sometimes I need my wife to drive me close to a building or tree when I'm in the bucket. I feel much "safer" being that the tractor is a hydro with her driving. Also, it is much more precise when positioning a post hole digger exactly where I want it. I still use the neighbors old furgason and allis wd tractors when I help him bale hay. They are just more of a pain to use unless you are out in the field.