Grand L loader issues?? or operation

[texasjohn]

I recommend demonstrating to the dealer the maneuver which it will not perform .

I have, many times , gotten unstuck by curling toothbar straight down into muck, lifting front wheels off ground and curling up to push tractor toward rear . I do think i was on hst reverse pedal while curling. Glad you are getting pressure checked.

 

[TripleR]

My son and I mucked out a pond last year about this time with our M8540 and L5030 and I thought he would be pulling me out of the mud all of the time, but like texasjohn, I just used my FEL and curl to push me back out while using the HST.

 

[Grandad4]

"Neutral" pedal on an HST tractor is not the same as neutral on an MF35, which is freewheeling. As others have said, why make the bucket fight to pull you out and the locked drivetrain of the hydraulic drive at the same time? Get the wheels going in the direction you want to move to at least help a little bit. That said, it still sounds like the FEL curl is not up to par on that tractor.

 

[mike69440]

I would bet your pressure is low. I had a L3130 with the 723 loader and it was a real disappointment. I checked the pressure and it was close to 1000psi low. Same deal with my L5740. Tried my new loader and was disappointed again. Checked the pressure and it was 1000# low. Boosted it to 2500# and got a new loader. Some day I will bump it another 200# but it is real good now.
Changing the pressure is not a tough job but testing the pressure is a must first.

2700 PSI is getting a bit much, as it will drag down the motor and is tough on the pump seals over time. I run a hare over 2500 PSI with an L39. Still weak in the curl.

 

[mike69440]

My son and I mucked out a pond last year about this time with our M8540 and L5030 and I thought he would be pulling me out of the mud all of the time, but like texasjohn, I just used my FEL and curl to push me back out while using the HST.

That is why I love the back hoe on the L39. I've done stuff to move and unstuck the tractor that is not in the owner manual.

 

[J_J]

bucktaker,

Maybe you have a curl cyl that is leaking, diminishing your capacity to push you backward.

You might make up a set of gages like these and test the hyd pressure .

The gage is a 3000 psi liquid filled gage.

If you are using the regen part of the curl circuit, it has little power.

 

[kuboman]

2700 PSI is getting a bit much, as it will drag down the motor and is tough on the pump seals over time. I run a hare over 2500 PSI with an L39. Still weak in the curl.

Yes they are a bit weak. I blame it on the parallel linkage for the bucket. To get the range of movement that these buckets have requires it to loose some mechanical advantage. My little b2620 I had with a direct pin bucket had better curl power than my la854 for the size of loader but I still like the extended motion of the 854 curl function. Kubota did not size the cylinders for the diminished mechanical advantage. At least that is how I see it.:drool:

 

[texasjohn]

It seems to me that 2900 lbs is max spec for 5030 and dealer mechanic set at 3100lbs because that was what the washer he installed provided . Only did it because I impressed him with my safery consciousness using hydraulics .

 

[bucktaker]

I have called the dealer and talked with the service dept they will check the pressure/adjust the pressure under warranty He was real adament about rpm's I told him I had tried between 1800-2500 with no difference.

My comment about getting unstuck is not something I have experienced with the L5740 yet but it seems that it wouldnt work as I have already hit max with curl before I get stuck. Raining alot here so gotta wait so I can get the trailer out of the swamp to take it in hope to do it this week.
What is the expected pressure and the max pressure?

 

[TripleR]

That is why I love the back hoe on the L39. I've done stuff to move and unstuck the tractor that is not in the owner manual.

I know what you mean, my brother has an old 2WD Case backhoe and he has never gotten into anything he couldn't get out of with the FEL and backhoe. I am pretty sure a lot of people would cringe though.:laughing:

Sure wish we could afford something like a L39 or L59, we just rent an excavator or bh now.

 

[J_J]

bucktaker,

The pressure setting will depend on the pump specs, and the relief setting should be about 50 psi below the pumps rated pressure.

Larger cyl will add force, and a lighter/different bucket perhaps.

Engine rpm only has to do with the GPM's developed.

 

[bucktaker]

Well Tractor is still at dealer they reported that the measured pressure was actually 100 psi more than spec it measured 2750psi
They tested it with a gauge and placed the bucket under a heavy object i think he said dock.

So I wonder if the angle of the bucket makes a big difference as I had the cutting edge almost straight down.

I will get the tractor back on monday and see if I can recreate the problem again, if necessary I will go buy a gauge.

 

[VA MTN MAN]

My 5740 seems weak in the curl circut also but the lift feels fine.my4610 has plenty of power in the curl circut. I think the difference in mine is the 4610 is direct pin on bucket and the5740 is quick attach which sits out 6 or more inches further from the pins. I dont think kubota took this in consideration and it makes the curl weak.just my opinion.

 

[bucktaker]

Yes i have the ssqa bucket too

 

[bucktaker]

Got a good deal off Cl yesterday a Cat skid steer 42 pallet forks.

Put the pallet forks on and did some testing with the L5740.
Lifting the arms with forks under a horse trailer rears came off the gound.
Brought forks up and tried to curl the trailer no go not light in rear
placed foks level on concrete floor tried to "dump" and lift the front wheels no go.
Put forks at 45 degree down angle and tried to lift front wheels nope
drove forks into soft grass 6-8 inches could curl the sod out.

Will try the same things with my bucket this wekend. Can some one else try these things to see if the are seeing similar results ?

 

[Grateful11]

Something doesn't sound quite right on the curl of the loader. Our L3940 loaded
right at 40 loads of cow manure in the last 2 days using a IH 155 bushel spreader.
Ours has loaded rear R4's and we had a JD 71 blade on the rear. I can't understand
The 5740 not being able to push these piles either, all our manure handling is done on
concrete, about 8000sq.ft. of it, that's the worst case scenario as far traction
IMO and the L3940 blows our IH 574 away when it comes to production, traction
and ease of operation. The 574 has loaded R1's but get it on concrete with the
narrow 4' manure bucket with manure spikes and get it a little downhill on poopy
concrete and it will barely move itself in reverse. The spreader can be fully heaped in
under 5 minutes with the Kubota. 2/3rds of the manure loaded this week was so
wet it had water running it of it, it had the consistency of pudding. I've been
blown away by the ability of Kubota in the way it handles especially loader operation,
which is used everyday here for moving round bales for 50 head of cattle. I'd
definitely contact the dealer, hopefully he's a good one like we have.

 

[J_J]

Got a good deal off Cl yesterday a Cat skid steer 42 pallet forks.

Put the pallet forks on and did some testing with the L5740.
Lifting the arms with forks under a horse trailer rears came off the gound.
Brought forks up and tried to curl the trailer no go not light in rear
placed foks level on concrete floor tried to "dump" and lift the front wheels no go.
Put forks at 45 degree down angle and tried to lift front wheels nope
drove forks into soft grass 6-8 inches could curl the sod out.

Will try the same things with my bucket this wekend. Can some one else try these things to see if the are seeing similar results ?

Is this the loader you have? Below. If you can't obtain the tilt and lifting weights, then you need to get a hyd gage and check the pump, FEL valve, relief valve, and loader cyl for any leakage.

Look at the break out force, and lifting force. Is it anywhere near what you have seen on your tractor?


Loader:
Loader type: Kubota LA854
Height (to pin): 112.3 inches [285 cm]
Dump clearance: 88.9 inches [225 cm]
Dump reach: 22.4 inches [56 cm]
Dump angle: 45
Reach at ground: 75.7 inches [192 cm]
Rollback angle: 42
Breakout force (at 500mm): 4,195 lbs [1902 kg]
Lift to full height (at pin): 2,489 lbs [1129 kg]
Lift to full height (at 500mm): 1,878 lbs [851 kg]
Bucket width: 72 inches [182 cm]
Attachment style: J2513 Quick-Coupler (optional)
Raise time to height: 4.2 s
Bucket dump time: 2.3 s
Lowering time: 2.8 s
Rollback time: 3.5 s

 

[bucktaker]

JJ
Yes i have the la854 loader.
Dealer checked hyd pressure and reported no issue. measured 2750psi

how do you measure breakout force? lift seems fine and never hits the relief

curl/dump...seems very weak to me cant do a lot of things. i am starting to wonder if it s angle of the bucket that is losing mechanical advantage.
Hope to try it later today as I have to unload some big round bales and fill a feeder.

 

[J_J]

Different people state the breakout force differently. Here is a couple of definitions of breakout force.

Breakout Force @ Pivot Pins
This measurement is taken from the pin locations where the bucket attaches. This is the straight rising action of the loader, under load, lifting material straight up without the bucket.

Breakout Force @ 19.5"€� Forward
This measurement is taken at 19.5 inches forward of the loader arm bucket pin holes. This is the dead lift power of the loader when raising the loader bucket (i.e., scooping dirt from a pile).

Now, what does that mean, with out the bucket.

I always thought it had to do with the angle of the cyl to the bucket. The curl function of the bucket changes the angle of the cyl to the bucket. You will have the most force when the cyl is at 90 to the bucket, as any other angle will provide less force. The further apart the cyl connecting to the pivot pins will also increase the force.

I added your lift and curl weights, and they are very close to the breakout force, so one could say it is the combination of the lift and curl, but normally you can't do both lift and curl.

I would have to agree that the breakout force is using both lift and curl at the same time.

You are simply adding one force to another.

2 in cyl, 1 in rod, 3000 psi = 9,435 lbs pushing straight on.

-----------------------------= 7,069 lbs pulling straight on.
Some tractors use two cyl for the force, so times 2 for the two cyl tractors.

If you have a pressure gage on your hyd system, and you are lifting and curling at the max pressure, and are satisfied, about the only thing you can do is to use a smaller bucket, with less volume.

Perhaps your problem lies elsewhere, as in leaking cyl's.

Perhaps you can observe another same type tractor doing the same thing as what you do, and noting any difference.


You should be able to put your bucket flat on the ground and curl down and reiae the tractor front end.

If you put more weight on the rear, and you try to lift something heavy, does the relief activate?

 

[bucktaker]

Perhaps you can observe another same type tractor doing the same thing as what you do, and noting any difference.


You should be able to put your bucket flat on the ground and curl down and reiae the tractor front end.

If you put more weight on the rear, and you try to lift something heavy, does the relief activate?


JJ
I cannot place my bucket flat on concrete and use dump to lift the front end.
i cannot go from full dump position bucket on ground and Curl back attempting to push tractor back.

I seem to have no problems with lift as rear will come off the ground using lift only.. Curl ??? seems to be angle dependant. More angle less power, less angle seems to work ok.




Lifted large 6x6 rounds bales off a trailer with no issues other than being careful because of light rear end . Could lift no problems curl and dump worked ok with this load as not any work at extreme angles.

I agree I need to check operation with same loader La854 I think its the same loader as a mx5100 uses