The Log house Project begins........

[tony Cecil]

I would stick with what would traditionally have been with a genuine cabin, such as you have built.....If you vary from that , I think your cabin won`t be the `real thing` Tony

 

[MotorSeven]

Well, she kinda likes this:

Later(when more $ is available) we could add the two triangles:

Not bad.....eh?

 

[MotorSeven]

Eddie, I actually do like the Sunburst, but like I said before I don't think I can reverse the Crows Foot(or reverse knee braces, or Peace Sign, or or or). I am not an engineer and I installed them because the center ridge support(10x5x14') with the weight of the ridge beam and roof was pushing down the logs over the 10' doorway. After putting everything up I was concerned about this and watched it closely. With the Collar Ties installed, the deflection or sag of the logs was 1/2" in the center of the doorway. This pic shows the force of the weight in red:

Now it might not have ever moved anymore, but I was not willing to gamble, so I jacked the doorway logs back up and installed the two braces to distribute the weight over to the walls on either side of the door. That was a month an a half ago and it has not sagged or moved:

Again, I am not an engineer(just a schmoe building a house) and this is just a guess, but if those braces are reversed would they not again put that weight back onto the center of the doorway? I just think the Crows Foot bracing has to stay, does all that make sense?

 

[bindian]

Not bad.....eh?

Works for me. I am happy!
hugs, Brandi

 

[ThomasH]

The inverted Y as you draw it will probably not do much to deflect the weight over the doorway unless you have an very well designed joint at the top of the Y which allows no movement, and the bottom of the Y is really well anchored (and therefore can't spread).

I would suggest just putting a header over the top log (double 2x10 LVL) and let a proper header distribute the load to wider than the opening below.

BTW - I am *impressed* by what you have done!

Tom

 

[MotorSeven]

The inverted Y as you draw it will probably not do much to deflect the weight over the doorway unless you have an very well designed joint at the top of the Y which allows no movement, and the bottom of the Y is really well anchored (and therefore can't spread).

I would suggest just putting a header over the top log (double 2x10 LVL) and let a proper header distribute the load to wider than the opening below.

BTW - I am *impressed* by what you have done!

Tom

Top of the inverted Y has 2 - 10" log screws in it on both sides and a 1/2 x 12" lag screw that goes through(horizontally) the top of one brace, then through the ridge support and terminates in the opposite brace. The bottom of the Y has 12 - 8" log screws in it on each side attached over 2' of wall.

I should have thought about a header before installing the ridge support, and hindsight I thought about steel. It could be done now but would involve a ton or work. It would actually be easier to put a Collar Tie in up high on the rafters, but I am not sure it is needed at this point.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

IPlay, I don't see anything there that I really want. As usual, I am fighting the rising tide of conformity:laughing: I think Eddie was talking about a Sunrise looking theme:

I completely understand the desire to fight conformity. I've never been a "Me too" kind of person. However, I have often taken inspiration from the efforts of others. I think you came up with a great design in the picture below.

It looks great as-is, but the flexibility to expand later with the extra triangles makes it even better.

 

[EddieWalker]

Now it might not have ever moved anymore, but I was not willing to gamble, so I jacked the doorway logs back up and installed the two braces to distribute the weight over to the walls on either side of the door. That was a month an a half ago and it has not sagged or moved:

Again, I am not an engineer(just a schmoe building a house) and this is just a guess, but if those braces are reversed would they not again put that weight back onto the center of the doorway? I just think the Crows Foot bracing has to stay, does all that make sense?

I didn't realize that you where trying to distribute the load of your post with the braces. I have my doubts as to the long term success to this. Expecially with the movement that you already have.

A proper header is probably needed, but since that would ruin the look, what about Angle Iron on either upper edge of the wall out past the opening? Or even better, a large C Channel wide enough to go on the outside of the logs? Then drill the sides and bolt it all together.

Get it right now before going on with the window. Any movement that you have now will be worse later, and that will really cause problems with the glass in the window.

Eddie

 

[MotorSeven]

If I go ahead and mill 6x6's for the two vertical uprights of the big window and properly attach them to the rafter and the wall that will in fact triple the support of the ridge post. This will kill two birds with one stone.....supporting the the ridge/rafter and framing the window glass.

 

[EddieWalker]

Yes, but only if there is not more movement in the logs above the window. Taking off a lot of the load might solve this, or it might just reduce how noticable it is for now.

I like the look of four seperate windows without the bracing at the bottom. The bracing makes it look busy to me. Clean and simple is always my favorite look.

Can you remove the logs above the window and install a massive 5x5 piece of angle iron over the window opening? If you paint it black, It will look nice from the outside where you would see it.

Eddie

 

[Iplayfarmer]

If I go ahead and mill 6x6's for the two vertical uprights of the big window and properly attach them to the rafter and the wall that will in fact triple the support of the ridge post. This will kill two birds with one stone.....supporting the the ridge/rafter and framing the window glass.

I think this is your best bet. Support the load with the 6X6 uprights and remove the crow's foot. I think you'll get better load distribution, and you'll have a cleaner looking window arrangement.

 

[EddieWalker]

If you want to carry the load of the center beam with two posts on the side, then you have to take into consideration the rafters being able to carry that load from the center beam on down to the new posts on the side. It's not as simple as just putting two posts in there off to the side.

While doable, I would want metal brackets and bolts tying everything together as the very least. Without being there in person, it's tricky to come up with the answer.

How is the top of the garage door opening done?

Eddie

 

[MotorSeven]

How is the top of the garage door opening done?

Eddie

The rafters can carry the load they are 5x10's.

There is a 12' "U" shaped concrete Lintel above the 9' garage door. It was reinforced with rebar and filled with concrete when the 4"x12" cap was poured around the top of all the walls.

 

[MotorSeven]

I think this is your best bet. Support the load with the 6X6 uprights and remove the crow's foot. I think you'll get better load distribution, and you'll have a cleaner looking window arrangement.

Nawww, I think I want to add the 6x6's and keep the Crows Foot...that big voodoo "has aholt of me":laughing:

 

[sparc]

Can you remove the logs above the window and install a massive 5x5 piece of angle iron over the window opening? If you paint it black, It will look nice from the outside where you would see it.

Or, cut a groove in the wall just above the window opening and install the lintel angle. I did just that for an opening we cut in a 8" block wall on the second story to install a 7'-6" wide roll-up door. We used a portable gas powered concrete saw to cut a groove at what would become the top of the opening on the inside of the wall. This groove went about 6.5" deep so about 1.5" behind the outside face of the wall. The groove extends a full 24" beyond each side of the opening. In this groove we placed a 6x6x1/2" angle with the vertical leg running up from the top of the opening. Once the lintel was in place we cut out the block below, faced off each side of the opening and installed a threshold, then the overhead door went in. It's 4 years later and it still works fine. No cracks in the wall above the opening and the door runs true w/o jamming. You could do something similar in your log wall I think.

 

[hawkeye08]

Would adding the "beam" (I was thinking a good steel I beam of sufficient size, but could be done with wood) across work (some or all of the red line)? You would loose the bottom 6" perhaps of the available space for windows?

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Here's my suggestion for the windows...

I'd remove the two short braces at the bottom of the center beam, however.

I prefer Iplayfarmer's sketch from an engineering/physics perspective. I would even take out the center vertical upright and finish it off like that. You might firm up things with a piece of angle iron just to help stabilize and to help reduce the bowing. The crows feet are not adequate to distibute the load unless you have them "locked in place" the equivalent of welded metal at ALL corners of the triangulation.

 

[PILOON]

I like that idea, but it would take a big air compressor and a media blaster. I have the big compressor installed in my shop 250' down and a hundred yards away, but no outlet wired yet for it at the site, and no media blaster. One of these days I will have a media blaster...great tool:thumbsup:

I had a client whose log cabin was 30' X 40' and had been neglected by the former owners.
To make matters worse the finish was clear varathane applied after a bleaching process.
Caulking was white .

We rented a 150 CFM compressor, tank hoses etc and purchased 40 bags of silica grit.
Well, the learning curve was fast and easy, so much so that we blasted the whole house in ONE day!
Tricks I learned;
You mask windows with duct tape as it bounces the grit away.
Corrugated cardboard makes good masking material.
All in all it is a very easy job , just messy.
Lay tarps on the ground otherwise you will have a white (sand) lawn.
Actually you can filter the grit and reuse it.
While term 'sand' is used, you actually will purchase silica, a refined and graded abrasive.

The end results were that the logs were even nicer than the day they were installed some 30 years prior.
We refinished with Seikens oil stain, 3 coats applied.

 

[tnmike]

Why wouldn't a steel c channel across the top log of the wall faced with wood on the outside and inside for looks solve this problem?

 

[MotorSeven]

Piloon, I did sandblast the log house I built in 1983. It did go pretty well, and your right made the logs look new. We also used it to "peel" the tie poles and they came out looking like bleached drift wood...smooth.
Back then good sand for blasting was readily available, then the EPA got involved. 4 years ago I went looking for a place to blast some rims for my '68 Chevy Short Step. I got the same story from 3 or 4 places...."We quit sandblasting because we can't get dry clean sand anymore". I ended up getting a place to media blast them and it was not cheap. So when it was time to do the house, I just went with the pressure washer,,,didn't even think about sanblasting.

Les and I were up at the house yesterday and we decided to keep the voodoo chicken foot, and do the glass like in post # 622. We will later add the triangles if we want at a later date. Standing in the house and using a tape to show the side frames...these windows are HUGE. We might have to split them into two sections on each side for a total of 4 panels. I am going to contact some glass company's and get some advise on recommended width/height.

I have pondered the steel vs wood bracing thing. I have the wood/can make the wood any size I need for the frames. I really think it can be done in all wood, and just spread the load of the center support more. Proper sized bracing with mechanical attachments(even wooden pegs) are every bit as strong as steel for this application. In this day and age, I think we really underestimate the strength of wood. I built a shed from my mill 3-4 years ago and asked on a sawmill forum about a solid beam to span 25'. Most of the guys said it was too far and would bow/put up an "I" beam, a few said it would be fine. I didn't like the idea of a steel I beam on my mill shed, so I went ahead and milled out a 27' 11x11 poplar beam and set it crown side up, then put the rafters/purlins/tin up. It still has that slight arch of the crown up and has not moved or sagged at all.
After all, it's a log house, and I really want to do this part with wood, so I am going to give it a shot. Remember, I have already fixed the initial sag, so any more bracing I do now is just langniappe

I really appreciate all the ideas y'all have given us, it has helped a ton!