Document preparation fees--RIPOFF

[Diamondpilot]

Another trick used by me for big ticket items, especially boats, campers, RV's, tractors, ect. is to watch the lot. These items are sent to dealers on Floor Plan. I start shopping months before. Find what you are interested in and and jot down the VIN# and the date you first saw it on the lot. I have also called the manufacture and given them the VIN# to find out the ship date. Wait till you are nearing or just over the 3 month free Floor Plan Period and start to deal. Never pay for options. Say it has options XYZ package and its a $3500 add on. Drop that off the price form the get go.

What always gets them is if they will not deal sit down and say lets order one just like that one on the lot minus these options. There is no way in HE!I they are going to order one identical minus a few options when they have a unit sitting on the lot and its been there for some time. They will deal like you would not believe. If they do not, walk. Every time I have walked I have found a better deal shortly there after. Everything happens for a reason!



Use timing to your advantage. I once looked at a boat in May on line. Went to see it in person on the July 4th weekend. Haggled on the price and bought it the last day of October. Thats 6 months. I saved 40% when it was all said and done. The dealer was now paying Floor Plan on a $120,000 boat and it was going to sit for 5 months or so over the winter till he had a chance of moving it. It was already a year old so I basically let him take the depreciation and I got a brand new boat with full warranty.

Chris

 

[beppington]

Is it just me or does anyone else resent the bloated surcharge many retailers tack onto your truck, trailer, etc. purchase for "document preparation fees"?

Not too much:

Dealer A's trailer price is $3,980 with $20 doc fees

Dealer B's trailer price is $3,600 with $400 doc fees

Dealer C's trailer price is $2,500 with $1,500 doc fees

... so they are all $4,000 trailers. All this means is that the verbal price given by a dealer means very little until you see it on a sales order.

If you have agreed to a price of say $4,000, & on the sales order he has added fees on top of that, be prepared to walk away from the deal. And if he won't remove any of those fees, or reduces them somewhat, at least you'll now know his bottom-line price & can continue price shopping apples-to-apples :thumbsup:

I was reviewing the papers I had for my utility trailer purchase almost 3 years ago, and on the sales contract they had added a $50 charge for document preparation fees, and I refused to sign the sales contract, and threatened to walk out and buy elsewhere unless they removed the charge.

I don't understand - If you didn't pay the $50 3 years ago, what are you upset about? Sounds like the dealer tried to squeeze $50 extra out of you, & it didn't work. :confused3:

Wow...$3 cost for postage and ten minutes work for their office girl...FIFTY BUCKS.

$3 minus a $0.44 stamp = $2.56. If it took her exactly 10 minutes, $2.56 x 6 = $15.36 per hour ... Not an exorbitant hourly wage/ fee.

 

[Diamondpilot]

$3 minus a $0.44 stamp = $2.56. If it took her exactly 10 minutes, $2.56 x 6 = $15.36 per hour ... Not an exorbitant hourly wage/ fee.

I agree, its not out of line to charge $50 but if you can negotiate it out of the deal that if fine.

When I buy a truck or anything like that I research the shat out of it first, know what I want when I walk on the lot, and have a number in my head.

I always buy on the last Saturday of the month. I pull on the lot the minute they open, usually 9AM around here. They are always hanging balloons, setting up the jump house for the kids, setting out the doughnuts, ect. I park right in front and leave my car running. I walk in and say I want to buy that one there. Go get you finance guy because you have 5 minutes from now to make a deal. I am not doing this back and forth stuff. I point out my car is running and that I am leaving in 5 minutes if we do not have a deal. I have always gotten what I wanted or walked.

Last truck, my 08 Titan, I paid $200 more than my number I had in my head. I guess I am getting soft but I did get them to throw in $159 all weather floor mats, 4 oil changes, and 2 tire rotations. It was a fair deal because I would have bought the floor mats online or from the dealer asap but my better half said I was getting soft in my old age.

Chris

 

[beppington]

3% net return is great for dealerships, just so y'all know.

That's "simple interest".

If, for example, a new car sits on the lot for 3 months, that 3% simple interest earned equates to a compound annual growth rate of 12.74%.

 

[ultrarunner]

What always gets them is if they will not deal sit down and say lets order one just like that one on the lot minus these options. There is no way in HE!I they are going to order one identical minus a few options when they have a unit sitting on the lot and its been there for some time. They will deal like you would not believe. If they do not, walk. Every time I have walked I have found a better deal shortly there after. Everything happens for a reason!

Chris

Dealers, or I should say Sales hate ordering vehicles.

Only ordered twice and both times the Dealer made it very hard.

I did Euro Delivery on a BMW for the time I would be over there working. Penciled out the numbers and I would save 7k in reduced cost and not having to rent a lesser vehicle for my time there.

The first 4 BMW Dealers denied even such a program insisted... kept saying things like I could be driving one home tonight... why go through the hassles or pay for a car that I wouldn't see for 6 weeks... The 4 all missed the point that the only reason I was interested in a BMW was because I would be in Germany... not going to buy a new car here and have it sit for 5 months in California when I'm in Germany.

Anyway, the last Dealer was out of my area... called and asked for the EuroDelivery person by name... he said he was with a customer and asked it he could call back within the hour... I told him I knew exactly what I wanted and the price and he ask that I fax it too him... when he called, the only question he asked was if there was a trade or financing involved... I said no and he said no problem, already checked production and would order it with a $100 deposit... couldn't have been easier.

When I ordered Mom's Toyota... I called the factory in Fremont Directly and spoke to the production manager and told him we were being told the options she wanted are not available and if we could order it... might take months to get.

Anyway, went to the Dealer 3 miles from the factory and spoke with the Fleet Guy... told him what we wanted and he said it might not be possible... then I told him to call the factory because they told me it would not be a problem and it would take about 3 weeks...

He said he never had a customer contact the factory and tell him what was available...

So we got it ordered and I wrote a letter to the President of Toyota explaining Mom ordered her first new car at age 69 and could we get in to see her car as it was being made...

About a week later, I get a letter inviting us to see the entire process. When we showed up, it took a little effort, every time I showed the letter... doors magically opened... they even let me take my camera in to take pictures and I have a good one of Mom sitting in her car going down the line with no doors, hood, etc...

She was treated like Royalty... even some of the guys said, "Lady, I've been here 20 years and no one has ever been allowed to take pictures and sit in a car going down the line... I don't know who you are, but, you sure have friends in high places!"

We brought a sharpie and the line workers were signing the components as they assembled the car... so we have a true "Signature Series" Toyota...

Sometimes, sales people are their own worst enemies...

Moral of the story is to do your own research and it never hurts to ask...

 

[schoolsout]

Another trick used by me for big ticket items, especially boats, campers, RV's, tractors, ect. is to watch the lot. These items are sent to dealers on Floor Plan. I start shopping months before. Find what you are interested in and and jot down the VIN# and the date you first saw it on the lot. I have also called the manufacture and given them the VIN# to find out the ship date. Wait till you are nearing or just over the 3 month free Floor Plan Period and start to deal. Never pay for options. Say it has options XYZ package and its a $3500 add on. Drop that off the price form the get go.

What always gets them is if they will not deal sit down and say lets order one just like that one on the lot minus these options. There is no way in HE!I they are going to order one identical minus a few options when they have a unit sitting on the lot and its been there for some time. They will deal like you would not believe. If they do not, walk. Every time I have walked I have found a better deal shortly there after. Everything happens for a reason!



Use timing to your advantage. I once looked at a boat in May on line. Went to see it in person on the July 4th weekend. Haggled on the price and bought it the last day of October. Thats 6 months. I saved 40% when it was all said and done. The dealer was now paying Floor Plan on a $120,000 boat and it was going to sit for 5 months or so over the winter till he had a chance of moving it. It was already a year old so I basically let him take the depreciation and I got a brand new boat with full warranty.

Chris

Lots of floorplan incentives have gone from 3 months to 6 months with the economy now...just an FYI

 

[schoolsout]

That's "simple interest".

If, for example, a new car sits on the lot for 3 months, that 3% simple interest earned equates to a compound annual growth rate of 12.74%.

not quite

 

[schoolsout]

Here is a gift we just gave a fairly large customer of ours as he just got a boat...he was pretty pumped up about it, too.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Lots of floorplan incentives have gone from 3 months to 6 months with the economy now...just an FYI

Yea, I can see that. I have not bought a car since 2009, well actually a truck, my 08 Titan that was a leftover.

I did buy a boat this spring but it was a repo from a dealer that went out of business 500 miles away. Worked the deal over the phone/email and went to pick it up.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Dealers, or I should say Sales hate ordering vehicles.

Only ordered twice and both times the Dealer made it very hard.

I have never had a issue. I have ordered 8 or 9 of the 20 or so vehicles I have owned. My father has almost always ordered and I would guess he has had nearly 35 vehicles. My sister and BIL do not order, too impatient. They always just search the net for what is closest to what they want and go buy it.

It all comes down to the dealer. When I ordered my 06 F-350 I could not decide on the color so the dealer ordered 3 identical except for color. He sold one the day it came in after I decided I did not want black. The other was sold in under 2 weeks that I did not take.

Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

I have never had a issue. I have ordered 8 or 9 of the 20 or so vehicles I have owned. My father has almost always ordered and I would guess he has had nearly 35 vehicles. My sister and BIL do not order, too impatient. They always just search the net for what is closest to what they want and go buy it.

It all comes down to the dealer. When I ordered my 06 F-350 I could not decide on the color so the dealer ordered 3 identical except for color. He sold one the day it came in after I decided I did not want black. The other was sold in under 2 weeks that I did not take.

Chris

I've never ordered trucks... only the two cars.

I think part of my Euro BMW problem is there is no commission typically paid to floor sales people and ordering a car that might not be paid for till a couple of months later, especially if it is coming from overseas, won't show up on the weekly commission check.

It's probably also a factor that a lot of sales people tend not to stick around too long...

 

[Diamondpilot]

It's probably also a factor that a lot of sales people tend not to stick around too long...

See, its different in the country. I would say 2/3 the sales staff at my local Ford dealer have been there 10-15 years. I know the gal at the Nissan dealer where I got my Titan has been there 8 years now. I get a note from her about every 6 months to keep her in mind if I am shopping or know someone else that is. I sent her a sale about 3 months ago for a SUV and she sent me a $100 check 10 days later and a thank you note. My guy from the Ford dealer calls me monthly to shoot the bull, his brother is a pilot so this is his in. I know he is just drumming up business but hey, that is is his job.:thumbsup: I have no problem with that and he has sent me business also for boat/trailer needs.

Chris

 

[beppington]

That's "simple interest".

If, for example, a new car sits on the lot for 3 months, that 3% simple interest earned equates to a compound annual growth rate of 12.74%.

not quite

What don't you like, my math/ formula, or the 3-month on the lot period?

 

[ultrarunner]

See, its different in the country. I would say 2/3 the sales staff at my local Ford dealer have been there 10-15 years. I know the gal at the Nissan dealer where I got my Titan has been there 8 years now. I get a note from her about every 6 months to keep her in mind if I am shopping or know someone else that is. I sent her a sale about 3 months ago for a SUV and she sent me a $100 check 10 days later and a thank you note. My guy from the Ford dealer calls me monthly to shoot the bull, his brother is a pilot so this is his in. I know he is just drumming up business but hey, that is is his job.:thumbsup: I have no problem with that and he has sent me business also for boat/trailer needs.

Chris

I've noticed that myself with other businesses... from Banks, Home Depots to KFC takeouts.

Seems there are more career oriented people once you get outside the big urban areas...

The biggest contrast has been between WA State and the SF Bay Area...

 

[RollingsFarms]

yeah, those country dealers I deal with are looking for return business, not volume. they know your name and stuff about you, and more importantly they treat you the SAME way AFTER the sale as they did while you were signing the papers. my GM dealer is like that that i've bought two trucks and a car from. I think my days of messing with those city slickers are over with. I've given them plenty of chances and only gotten the same result each time. They're never going to change and neither am I. I guess I will always be stuck buying from this same dealership that has treated me awesome 3 times in a row. Stinks that I'll always have to drive a GMC or a Chevy, instead of getting to try out a Ford or a Dodge, but it is what it is. I would rather be treated well then buy something different and it be a nightmare the whole time I owned the truck.

Service before and after the sale, honesty, and paying a fair price is WAY more important to me then driving the latest and greatest truck/car.

 

[buck12]

See, its different in the country. I would say 2/3 the sales staff at my local Ford dealer have been there 10-15 years. I know the gal at the Nissan dealer where I got my Titan has been there 8 years now. I get a note from her about every 6 months to keep her in mind if I am shopping or know someone else that is. I sent her a sale about 3 months ago for a SUV and she sent me a $100 check 10 days later and a thank you note. My guy from the Ford dealer calls me monthly to shoot the bull, his brother is a pilot so this is his in. I know he is just drumming up business but hey, that is is his job.:thumbsup: I have no problem with that and he has sent me business also for boat/trailer needs.

Chris

I miss the small town dealers. Our Ford dealer closed several years ago and now I have to go to the city to buy. I have bought two vehicles, neither cheap vehicles by my standard, in less than two years at the same dealership and no one at the dealer has a clue who I am. I didn't buy to make a friend but it would be nice to have someone know who you are when you spent almost $70,000 with them.

 

[Bird]

I miss the small town dealers. Our Ford dealer closed several years ago and now I have to go to the city to buy. I have bought two vehicles, neither cheap vehicles by my standard, in less than two years at the same dealership and no one at the dealer has a clue who I am. I didn't buy to make a friend but it would be nice to have someone know who you are when you spent almost $70,000 with them.

I've only bought one car, used at that, over 2.5 years ago from my local Ford dealer, but the salesman still sends me cards or letters a couple of times a year. But the service writers and cashier in the service department all know me and call me by name.:laughing:

I do let them do all my service and like the people. Of course it doesn't always go as I'd prefer. Our '02 Crown Vic has the adjustable pedals; just push the little rocker switch on the dash and the brake and accelerator pedals go farther away from or come closer to the driver. My wife likes the pedals all the way up closer to her and I like them all the way down. Real neat little feature . . . when it'sｴ working. And it's always worked until this past week. So I took it to the dealer and you have to replace the entire assembly. Expensive, but I want everything to work right on my vehicles, so $517.93 day before yesterday, and then yesterday morning it wasn't working again. They've concluded they just got a new defective part and have to order another one.

 

[JDgreen227]

I've only bought one car, used at that, over 2.5 years ago from my local Ford dealer, but the salesman still sends me cards or letters a couple of times a year. But the service writers and cashier in the service department all know me and call me by name.:laughing:

I do let them do all my service and like the people. Of course it doesn't always go as I'd prefer. Our '02 Crown Vic has the adjustable pedals; just push the little rocker switch on the dash and the brake and accelerator pedals go farther away from or come closer to the driver. My wife likes the pedals all the way up closer to her and I like them all the way down. Real neat little feature . . . when it'sｴ working. And it's always worked until this past week. So I took it to the dealer and you have to replace the entire assembly. Expensive, but I want everything to work right on my vehicles, so $517.93 day before yesterday, and then yesterday morning it wasn't working again. They've concluded they just got a new defective part and have to order another one.

Bird, something that makes me furious about todays newer vehicles is that they have all these fancy and expensive gewgaws and gimcracks that can go wrong, and 98% of the time when they do, it is something even a reasonably good home mechanic doesn't want to do. My '04 Lesabre has the Electronic Stability System, for the past two years it has been giving us a message on the dashboard "service stability system" once in a while. Online research tells me the steering position sensor is failing...well, I can buy a new sensor for about $100 online, and from what I have read it is about a $400 repair at the dealer, parts and labor. Now, exactly what are the chances a conservative, careful driver like me will ever actually NEED the stability system in the first place? I don't drive the car in the winter, and the rest of the year it gets used maybe 3,000 miles at the most. My wife says we should have the sensor replaced as when it acts up it disengages the cruise control....DUH, we use the cruise control maybe 1,000 miles a year at most? what is so hard about NOT using the CC? Sorry for ranting BUT my situation is probably typical, having to spend big bucks on some stupid, pi-----t little part that isn't needed 98% of the time. Automakers put too much gimmickcry in the new cars today. Since the cars are so reliable now otherwise, they load them up with crap so something will go wrong and they can soak you for $100 an hour to fix it....and you didn't really NEED the crap in the first place.

Remember when a simple day/night inside mirror was all you needed....5 bucks to replace. How much do you think one of the auto-dimming, compass/gps enabled Onstar/etc mirrors would cost to replace? DUUUUHHHHH.

 

[Bird]

something that makes me furious about todays newer vehicles is that they have all these fancy and expensive gewgaws and gimcracks

I guess I only partially agree.:laughing: Of course I grew up, learned to drive, worked in my dad's service stations and auto parts store in the day when a car with radio and heater was considered well equipped, especially if they worked.:laughing: I drove a school bus one school year, first in a 1952 International and later in a 1957 International. They had the inside rear view mirror and a mirror on the driver's side; that was all. When I took a busload of kids to the state fair in Dallas, I sure would have liked to have a mirror on the right side.:laughing:

This Crown Vic is the first car I've had with the adjustable pedals. Frankly, I'd rather it didn't if the pedals were just in the middle of the range it has. But I really do like having mirrors on both sides and especially power mirrors. And I like the power windows and power door locks. And I probably use the cruise control more than anyone you've ever met; really like that feature.:laughing:

But with all the stuff on the new vehicles, I don't know that I could learn to operate all that stuff. And I really don't know that I'd ever have any use for most of it. I don't need GPS, satellite radio, etc.

 

[JDgreen227]

I guess I only partially agree.:laughing: Of course I grew up, learned to drive, worked in my dad's service stations and auto parts store in the day when a car with radio and heater was considered well equipped, especially if they worked.:laughing: I drove a school bus one school year, first in a 1952 International and later in a 1957 International. They had the inside rear view mirror and a mirror on the driver's side; that was all. When I took a busload of kids to the state fair in Dallas, I sure would have liked to have a mirror on the right side.:laughing:

This Crown Vic is the first car I've had with the adjustable pedals. Frankly, I'd rather it didn't if the pedals were just in the middle of the range it has. But I really do like having mirrors on both sides and especially power mirrors. And I like the power windows and power door locks. And I probably use the cruise control more than anyone you've ever met; really like that feature.:laughing:

But with all the stuff on the new vehicles, I don't know that I could learn to operate all that stuff. And I really don't know that I'd ever have any use for most of it. I don't need GPS, satellite radio, etc.

Here is an example of a useless, complex frill....when I purchased my Y2K GMC Yukon XL 2500 off the lot, it had one $790 option I could have done without....Autoride. But the rest of the vehicle was what we wanted. Well, the Autoride made a 6000 pound truck with 10 ply tires ride a little better...until the warranty expired.

The "Service Ride Control" has been coming on for about 6 years now, I honestly cannot remember how it rode when it was new, it's a 3/4 ton truck, I don't care how it rides.

Got a copy of the factory service manual from a salesman (Xeroxed) to diagnose and repair the system. THIRTEEN PAGES LONG to diagnose and repair four fancy shock absorbers !!!!

Just another worthless, overpriced gimmick to make you pay $100 an hour to have it fixed. For all I know, there is nothing wrong with the system except the light, do you think the dealer would tell me "oh we can turn the light off....." Yeah. They would tell me I needed an entire new system, this on a 38,000 mile truck. I think sometimes they intentionally gimmick things like the Autoride, Stabilizer systems, your pedals, etc. to go bad after the warranty expires so you have to go to the dealers.