Propane Powered Ice / Snow Melter ???

[NC4AB]

I think all this summer heat has got me wishing for winter, which brings up the problem:

A steep gravel driveway ~ 400 feet long with a sharp turn at the bottom of the driveway. I can scrape the snow off but this leaves me with a thin layer of ice (think of a bob sled run). During the winter the driveway doesn get much sun to melt the ice, so the ice stays around for several days.

I searched the forums and couldn't find any info so here goes -

I'm thinking about building a propane or diesel powered ice melter similar to a Jet Dryers that NASCAR uses. Initial design in my head is a trailer type unit ~ 36 inches wide (think of an 3 sided box open at the bottom that I could hook behind the ATV to melt out the area where the tires run. The heat would be generated using a burner design like the ones used in a forge.

Any one done something similar?

Thanks

 

[greasemonkeyok]

The cost of the fuel to melt ice may be out of this world. A lot of BTU's lost trying to heat from the top down.

 

[magicheater]

Think sand. As soon as you remove the heat the water you created will freeze. It can't go down in the winter. I tried one of those handheld propane units on an apron, the ice melted but it damaged the concrete as well...never again.

 

[jake98]

I wonder if you buried a coil of pipe way down and circulated antifreeze in it up to the top, under the driveway, it would bring up enough heat to do anything?

 

[Duffster]

As soon as you remove the heat the water you created will freeze.

What he said.

I wonder if you buried a coil of pipe way down and circulated antifreeze in it up to the top, under the driveway, it would bring up enough heat to do anything?

It'll just freeze the ground that much deeper.

 

[magicheater]

I wonder if you buried a coil of pipe way down and circulated antifreeze in it up to the top, under the driveway, it would bring up enough heat to do anything?

Tried that too and only cracked the apron. Money ahead to shovel/plow and use sand or ashes.

 

[hddnis]

Is your driveway paved or gravel?



Mr. HE

 

[NC4AB]

Drive way is gravel.

The ground does not freeze all that deep here in NC but the past 2 winters have been exceptionally cold. Normally with in a few days the surface thaws out from the sun shine and I can make it in and out of the driveway. The problem I have had is a thin layer of ice makes the driveay like a bob sled run.

Ice melt works but I was trying to come up with a whiz bang solution that would impress the wife.

 

[Don87]

Drive way is gravel.

The ground does not freeze all that deep here in NC but the past 2 winters have been exceptionally cold. Normally with in a few days the surface thaws out from the sun shine and I can make it in and out of the driveway. The problem I have had is a thin layer of ice makes the driveay like a bob sled run.

Ice melt works but I was trying to come up with a whiz bang solution that would impress the wife.

Ain't no whiz bang solution to ice on the driveway.

Sand will work unless you get a lot of water run-off, then that will wash the sand away. Coal ash works the best because it has larger pieces that will stick around, but will crush under the weight of a vehicle providing traction.

 

[Pete Judd]

Chains are very good on Ice, but a PIA to put on and remove just to get down your driveway. Up here, I put the studded tires on in November, and take them off in March.

We have a gravel driveway, and one year, (when I was a LOT younger) I heated water on the stove and pored it on the driveway, made a mess, and I am still trying to level the low spot it created.

 

[SpringHollow]

An ice melt system using antifreeze in pex is reasonably common in commercial applications. I installed one in my steep driveway between the house and barn. Ideally, some insulation below the pex would help. I used old carpet over and under mine to keep sharp stones away. The antifreeze is heated by the wood boiler so efficiency is not extremely important. I will know how well it works this Winter.

ken

 

[hddnis]

Drive way is gravel.

The ground does not freeze all that deep here in NC but the past 2 winters have been exceptionally cold. Normally with in a few days the surface thaws out from the sun shine and I can make it in and out of the driveway. The problem I have had is a thin layer of ice makes the driveay like a bob sled run.

Ice melt works but I was trying to come up with a whiz bang solution that would impress the wife.

Go to bing.com and do a search on pavement heaters or infared pavement heaters.

Here is a pic of a small one:

These heaters run on diesel or propane and will heat pavement up for patching or to melt ice. They vary in size from small hand pulled units all the way up to large truck mounted units. Making something that works on your tractor should be really easy. Based on your location I think the idea has merit. Even if the ground re-froze the surface would not be a sheet of ice.



Mr. HE

 

[Lightnsound]

If you have a York rake, you can try to mix some gravel up into the ice. This makes bumpy ice that has some tooth and isn't nearly as slippery. If you don't have a York rake but you have a rear blade, set the blade so it chatters when you drag it. It will give the ice a bit of washboard texture. I've done both techniques and had some success, at least enough to keep me from sliding into the swale.

 

[NC4AB]

HDDNIS -

That is exactly what I am looking to build. Just didn't know what to call it. I hadn't thought of doing infrared but that would be more effiecent than using direct flame.

May thanks, now I have another project to add to my list of things to do !!

 

[SensibleNick]

HDDNIS -

That is exactly what I am looking to build. Just didn't know what to call it. I hadn't thought of doing infrared but that would be more effiecent than using direct flame.

May thanks, now I have another project to add to my list of things to do !!

Those pavement heaters need to sit in place for a LONG time before they heat a pavement sufficiently. The wheels are for transportation: not for moving it while working. They're not that fast.

Ice has quite a high SHC (Specific Heat Capacity) and you're going to spend a lot of time simply wasting gas/heat. Also, it is not a lasting effect.

On top of that, It's one of the more environmentally irresponsible ways of getting rid of ice. You'll find it takes less time, less effort, and less money to do as others have suggested: put something *on* the ice. Grit, sand, salt, ashes... but burning fuel to temporarily heat the ground is just wasteful and expensive. :confused2: and with 400 feet... your talking hours and hours of heating.

 

[yankeerider]

Don't overlook the effectiveness of the time-honored combination of sand and salt. The salt doesn't melt the ice away, it just creates enough enough "tooth" to get the sand to stay in place in many small craters. Here in New England, many towns used to make it available for residents. That seems to be disappearing for a number of reasons, so think about how to mix up your own.

 

[turnkey4099]

Those pavement heaters need to sit in place for a LONG time before they heat a pavement sufficiently. The wheels are for transportation: not for moving it while working. They're not that fast.

Ice has quite a high SHC (Specific Heat Capacity) and you're going to spend a lot of time simply wasting gas/heat. Also, it is not a lasting effect.

On top of that, It's one of the more environmentally irresponsible ways of getting rid of ice. You'll find it takes less time, less effort, and less money to do as others have suggested: put something *on* the ice. Grit, sand, salt, ashes... but burning fuel to temporarily heat the ground is just wasteful and expensive. :confused2: and with 400 feet... your talking hours and hours of heating.

Amen to that. Anyone who has spent time defrosted a freezer knows that ice does not give up easily. Any method of heating other than by sun is a very expensive proposition fuel wise.

Toss soem commercial ice melter (not salt)on it and it will go away.

Harry K

 

[David Devuono]

Wonder if a power broom might be better. It might give you a pattern on what ever Ice remains.

 

[hddnis]

Those pavement heaters need to sit in place for a LONG time before they heat a pavement sufficiently. The wheels are for transportation: not for moving it while working. They're not that fast.

Ice has quite a high SHC (Specific Heat Capacity) and you're going to spend a lot of time simply wasting gas/heat. Also, it is not a lasting effect.

On top of that, It's one of the more environmentally irresponsible ways of getting rid of ice. You'll find it takes less time, less effort, and less money to do as others have suggested: put something *on* the ice. Grit, sand, salt, ashes... but burning fuel to temporarily heat the ground is just wasteful and expensive. :confused2: and with 400 feet... your talking hours and hours of heating.

You are totally missing the point of what he is trying to accomplish. He is not heating pavement for a patch.

Just FYI more and more heat based ice melting systems are being installed every year on roofs, in parking lots, on bridges, in sidewalks, etc. They are considered to be more environmentally responsible and more effective than salt use. While I don't agree that salt or ice melter use is really a problem it shows that the use of heat is feasible, proven and growing. These are in ground systems, he wants to heat from above. Maybe not the very best in every case, but might be the best in his situation.



Mr. HE

 

[NC4AB]

Thanks all of the suggestions, I now have a design based around a "MrHeater" infrared propane shop heater. The steel for the frame and the wheels will come from the scrap pile so my total out of pocket cost for the heater will run around $130.00 for the heater from Northern Tool. Nice thing is if the design doesn't work I can still use the heater in the shop.

Just for clarification what I have is a steep gravel driveway that after being scraped can have a thin layer of ice and I plan on melting 2 tracks ~ 18" wide in the areas that don't get much sun.

I'll take pictures of the final design and post some pictures when we get some snow.