garbage truck pump on logsplitter

[me0418840987]

I have an opportunity to aquire a hydraulic pump from the front of a garbage truck. Does anyone know what pressure these flow? I have a splitter with a
7" x 48" cylendar on it. It currently runs with a 11 hp briggs engine and a 16 gpm pump. I want to install that massive pump attached to a Ford 300-I 6 / 165 hp engine from a 1981 F-100. Volume should not be a problem, as I found most new Garbage trucks spec a 40+ gpm pump, but cannot find at what psi and rpm this happens at. May sound rediculous, until you realise that I have over a 2 minute cycle time with the small 16 GPM pump. I heat the shop and the house, with an outdoor stove, and my aunts house, and the maple syrup operation and between all of them, I make and use about 25 full cords per year. Thank you.

 

[me0418840987]

Where can I source a 40 gpm flow rate valve with 2,500 psi + capacity, or can I just use the valve from the truck and block off output ports as needed? Splitter: 10" I beam, Dodge Grand Caravan axle, 7x48 ram C load trailer tires, 1-3/4 thick end plate backed by a peice of railroad track, 2- 7,000lb trailer jacks, and a small 11 hp Briggs, because the 16 hp twin cyl briggs I was given was stolen out of my shed. Only problem is the cycle time. Haven't found anything that can stop it yet, Including green elm knots. Don't have any bur oak to try, but would like to find a knotty crotch from one, just to see what happens...

 

[PoorPlowboy]

Splitzilla is definitely an understatement! Surpluscenter.com should have everything you need. I don't have any ideas on the pump you're looking at, the largest I've seen was a 30gpm pump powered by a carbureted Toyota 22r 4 cyl from about 1985. The splitter configuration was basically 2 splitters side by side built into one trailer, each with its own 3" dia 24" stroke cylinder ram. It was valved so that when one side was splitting (extending) the other side was retracting. It would work a pair of twenty year old bucks to death, but was set up to be run by one person like that.

That's about the extent of my wood splitter knowledge.

 

[mrmikey]

Best bet would be to get the tag off the pump if it's still there. If not, find out the brand as it's usually cast into the housing and do a search on the companies website.
Guessing I'd sy the pressure would be around 2-2200psi but that's all it is, a guess. You sure it's not a variable displacement pump?

.....block off output ports as needed.....

You could as you're not going to get any flow unless you move a spool but make sure you can't accidentally move the spool on that section, again provided it's not a var. pump. A safer solution would be to join the ports on each section with a small section of hose if there's any chance of movement....Mike

 

[me0418840987]

I have no idea what it is, I will take a can of brake parts cleaner and a stiff brush the next time I go to the salvage yard. My hydraulic knowledge is limited to:

1) replacment of existing parts, and
2) never check for leaks with bare skin, and
3) when all else fails, ask someone who knows better

The log splitter was already built, I just made it slightly larger.
I extended the frame, and went from a 4 to a 7 " cyl.
Bigger, but not big enough pump and motor.

 

[J_J]

Where can I source a 40 gpm flow rate valve with 2,500 psi + capacity, or can I just use the valve from the truck and block off output ports as needed? Splitter: 10" I beam, Dodge Grand Caravan axle, 7x48 ram C load trailer tires, 1-3/4 thick end plate backed by a peice of railroad track, 2- 7,000lb trailer jacks, and a small 11 hp Briggs, because the 16 hp twin cyl briggs I was given was stolen out of my shed. Only problem is the cycle time. Haven't found anything that can stop it yet, Including green elm knots. Don't have any bur oak to try, but would like to find a knotty crotch from one, just to see what happens...

Here is a single lever spool valve. No detent

Surplus Center - 1 SPOOL 45 GPM BRAND DA OC VALVE

Log splitter valve. 25 GPM

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7724&catname=hydraulic

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Might as well put a 6 or 8 way wedge on it because that cylinder is way overkill for a single wedge.

 

[J_J]

Does it look anything these pumps?

You should know which way the pump is supposed to turn, as some of them turn the other way.

If you go shaft to shaft. the pump has to turn the opposite of the engine.

As far as using the valve on the truck, do you know if it is open or closed center? You could plug the unused ports, and remove the levers.

Does it look anything lke this?

Wet Line Kits - Products - PERMCO HYDRAULIC PUMPS

If that 7 in cyl had a 2 in shaft, and you had a 30 GPM pump, the extend time on the cyl would be about 16 sec, and retract would be about 14.5 sec, for a total cycle time of 30.5 sec.

To achieve 30 GPM's, at 3000 psi, will take about 62 HP.

They do make a fast extend log splitter valve, but not at 40 GPM.

 

[J_J]

If the pump was on a garbage truck, the pump would mounted directly on the engine shaft to shaft and I am guessing the diesel trucks run at about 2500 to 3000 max.

You can install a 3000 psi hyd gage and can see the pressure when hooked up.

7 in cyl
2 in shaft
3000 psi

115,000 push force in lbs
106,000 pull force in lbs

 

[oldnslo]

A couple of things to check on this pump.

1) Is it a pressure compensated piston pump?
2) Is it a fixed displacement gear pump?

If pressure compensated does it require a charge pump?

Can you take some pictures of the pump and post them. This would help the members ID the unit and then we could provide you with more info.

On the valve side. If you access to original valves look at them. They might be sectional style valves that are held together with tie rods. If this is the case you may be able to remove a couple of sections and just use the one you need. Again pictures would help.

With this large of pump you will need a larger reservoir, return filter, etc. Have you allowed for this?

Roy

 

[Mechanos]

...but would like to find a knotty crotch...

:laughing::laughing:

 

[me0418840987]

The garbage truck pump idea is out. I disconnected the shaft at the engine today, and it free spins way too easy, no resistance at all, and would have had to be mounted on the front of the engine. I went to Northern, but they are out of stock until september on a Haldex Hi pressure cast iron gear pump in a CCW rotation. #10586-1201 The only reason I don't just go and get a 28 gpm 2 stage is because I would then have to source another 16+ hp small engine, and pay almost 400 for the pump itself. Besides, who doesn't like a challenge and having the baddest splitter in the neighborhood. Going to see my local truck body fitter tomorrow. Came up with a good way to get a shaft on the back of the engine. I sourced a flywheel, clutch assembly, and manual transmission from the back of my shed for an older ford truck with this engine. I torched off the imput shaft as close to the bearing in the front of the trans as possible. installed pilot bearing in crankshaft. Put peice of shaft with splines thru clutch disk, and welded a washer on the pilot end just at the beginning of the splines to keep it from pulling out. Installed clutch on motor- have a dead center 1" shaft out the back of the Ford. I will grind a keyway into it, and install an L110 1" half on it, and the match on the pump. I would have pictures, but have no AA batteries. Tommorrow.

 

[J_J]

That pump will need 128 HP to run it, and develop the pressure and GPM's

Which way does the engine shaft turn, that you will couple the pump to?

 

[me0418840987]

The engine turns ccw, so I need a CW pump, if I am thinking correctly. I am going to go back to the salvage yard, and get the oil cooler off of the truck.

 

[J_J]

Yes, if you mount it shaft to shaft. The pump should turn opposite the engine rotation.

If you mount it side by side on the shaft end, the CCW pump must turn in the same direction as the engine if the shafts are facing the same direction.

A clutch pulley hyd pump would have to turn CW.

 

[me0418840987]

Good, because the cw pump is in stock, and ships today. Looks like I will have this done this month yet.

 

[me0418840987]

Is there something better to use for fluid than Dex 3 ATF. I run it in everything other than the ford tractor, it gets hyd 32. As far as hoses go, I would figure for heat dissapation, I should go with the size that comes out of the valve and adapt down to 3/4 at the cyl. The valve has 1-1/4 ports. Or, for burst resistance, should I adapt to 3/4 right at the valve so I get a higher psi rated hose? Suction line and Discharge/cooler linews will all be 1-1/4. The only one i really worry about is the line from the pump to the valve. 3/4 for pressure resistance, or 1-1/4 for flow, or something in between? I really don't want a hot oil bath, and trans fluid is expensive enough without having to replace it. Burst a hose on this thing, and it will empty the 30 gallons in the system in less than a minute.

Many questions, but I really appreciate the guidance. UPS says my parts will be at home tomorrow after work

 

[J_J]

Use whatever size the pump uses for suction, and for the pressure hose, use whatever size is on the pump pressure port. Use reducer fittings for the valve if necessary .

You can specify the pressure you want on the hose.

Use Teflon paste/tape to join the fittings if NPT. Don't forget the return filter.

The largest log splitter valve I have seen is the 25 GPM log splitter valve.

 

[mrmikey]

Is there something better to use for fluid than Dex 3 ATF

Dunno if I'd call it better but it's cheaper, AW32
Hose sizes, as JJ said. If you're worried about bursting, go with a 4 wire hose for the main pressure line. It'll be costly and a lot stiffer but chances of bursting are a lot lower.....Mike

 

[me0418840987]

Ok, So I went with 1-1/4 suction as that is the size of the pump inlet. I went with 3/4 line for the rest, because that is the size of the outlet. THANK YOU ALL for your help. pictures and updates are and will be posted in the made it myself forum under homemade logsplitter.