Wiring up lights on Ford 2000

[Soundguy]

very likely was sparex.. I have been getting less tisco and A&I parts latelty. I know the grill was sparex.. so nose must have been too.

that's why I mounted the headlamps on my 3000 on the bumper.. i couldn't bring myself to drill that 400$ nose..

soundguy

 

[twoone]

Try tractor house and all it's links. They have a large avenue of outlets to parts new and used. Have you tried wanted in our own forum????

 

[twoone]

Soundguy: You might check to see what the switch is rated at this is the reason or one of the reasons for using a relay

 

[whodat526]

Soundguy: You might check to see what the switch is rated at this is the reason or one of the reasons for using a relay

The factory switches never had a relay

 

[twoone]

this may be true I haven't seen the factory diagram and I do not know what lights he is going to install the way he is talking he might go after mart. however it still does not change things if the combined amp's draw exceed the switch rating and there is a wire run he should use a proper rated fuse and relay of course he can make a direct run but???

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy: You might check to see what the switch is rated at this is the reason or one of the reasons for using a relay

a relay is good when you have a large load that needs a shortest run of heavy wire as possibly, like a big heavy winch that needs a 4' run of 1/0 cable from t he battery to the front of the truck where the winch is, and the relay, then a piece of thin 14 awg wire to the lil flip switch in the truck cab that has to go thru 25' of car wireing harness to get there.

on a tractor, the battery and dash are right there... and the load in question.. a lmap.. is within the wire gauge tolerance for the rest of the harness.

ford didn't use a headlamp relay because it was simply not needed.

i don't buy any headlamp switch rated under 20a. in fact.. havn't seen one on the shelf rated UNDER 20a. I'm guessing you could special order them.. but napa has a 20, 30 and 50 switch on the shelf. ysc has 20 and 30 etc. those ar e the common ones.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

this may be true I haven't seen the factory diagram and I do not know what lights he is going to install the way he is talking he might go after mart. however it still does not change things if the combined amp's draw exceed the switch rating and there is a wire run he should use a proper rated fuse and relay of course he can make a direct run but???

again// you gain NOTHING using a relay !!!!!! the wiring is so short.. if needing heavy wire for lotsa lamps.. use heavy wire and a large switch and correct fuse!!! adding a relay just adds cost and more wireing.

we are talking about a tractor here.. not a corvette.

the wireing is at most a FEW FEET long..... if he had a 80' yacht and a battert astern and lights up front and wanted a flip switch inthe control towere, yeah.. use a relay and cutr the large wire run neede din half.. go direct battery to lamp, add relay, then small run of wire to co tower.

on the tractor where all wire ends are what? 4' apart? likely is not needed.

use the correct wire, fuses for that wire, correct load rating switch.. correct lamps.. etc.

at some point if he goes big enough he will be overloading his charge system.. oem genny on a 3 cyl of that era was 22a MAX and you don't want to run that at max for long.. more like 80% for duration..



soundguy

 

[Bobby R]

Look, I really appreciate all your replies and your obvious concern about my question, but to be honest, I'm so confused now I may not even put any lights on the tractor. I just mainly wanted them for looks because I don't plan on using it after dark anyway, unless I have to go pull someone out of a mudhole or something. As I stated in a previous post, I rewired the original lights to a new switch on an International 404 I had and it blew the fuse and new switch as well. That's why I was asking if a relay was needed. I don't know what amperage the switch I bought was or even what gauge wire I used but I can tell you what ever it was, it didn't work! So I'm still confused about it.

 

[twoone]

As I said I do not know what he is going to or use and as for ford not using a relay I guess they built my tractor some ware else my battery is in the nose. all said I know that if he uses lights that draw more than the switch is rated and uses a system that above that it will blow the fuse and will than eat the switch. yes your correct most switch,s are as you called out the most common switch you find are 20 amp but I do not know what he has do you?and as I said if he goes after mart and installs lights that have a draw that exceeds the 20 amp switch and is not protected by the correct fuse it's going to blow the system. again you all do as you want because I don't know what you all decided to install however if it were my equipment I protect it the best I new how,and not the cheapest.

 

[Soundguy]

and if you have lemons, and have sugar and have a glass and have water you can have lemonade.

IF he used lamps that are a higher wattage than his wire, and the wattage exceeds the switch rating, and the fuse is too small for the wattage h'e have a problem/

and if he runs over a nail with a tire it will leak.

at least 2 of those situations are controlable via operator intervention.. IE.. the lemonade and wireing.. not so much the nail.

to the op.

get a switch rated for your lamp load. use wireing rated for the load.. use a fuse rated to protect the wireing.

wire it.

be done with it.

or do whatever.. buy 30 relays and stick them all over the tractor.. will make the electronics house happy.. they need money too. sounds like it will make twoone happy I guess.

actually hold on.

I'm gonna go buy stock in a relay co. I'll send you their online shopping page.

THEN go buy the relays

soundguy

 

[twoone]

I agree Just be sure to buy the correct size and a american made one as well as an american relay company. Hay by the way if your ever out this way I'ed like to have a Lemonade with you. Paul

 

[Soundguy]

would be nice if we actually had some american manufacturing still. too much is overseas.

If we had to tool up in an emergency.. we'd be cought with our pants down bad.

soundguy

 

[Bobby R]

Tell you what....once I get my lights mounted and hooked up and working like they're supposed to, I'll buy the lemonade. How's that? I promise the lemons will be from America!

 

[Soundguy]

i'd like to propose a toast!

soundguy

 

[twoone]

Hello BobbyR I really would like to get you out of your bind however I use a relay in my installations if you would like to work along with me i'll go over it step by step with you. So if your interested let me know what type lights you have decided to buy stock or aftermart and the wattage believe me the rest is simple. Paul

 

[Soundguy]

it's simple anyway.

E=IR P=EI

there's your wattage, current and voltage. current being the variable.

size the wire for the load

size the switch for the load.

size the fuse for the WIREING

hook up.

remember.. the old 6v systems needed heavier wire for high wattage due to higher current. with 12v, your current drops thus wire size needed drops... that's why looking at a tractor wire harness you see lots of 14awg wire, and perhaps a piece of 12 or maybee 10 on the charge circuit, with the only other big conductor bing ground strapping and starter primary wires .

Again..notice there are no relays in the lamp system in the ford schematics.

Adding extra components like that just leads to more things to go wrong, and more things to troubleshoot, only in the case of modified wireing.. you don't have a wire diagram in the manula to go by, since it is not oem.

making multiple lamp runs? use a seperate 14awg line runner if you are getting close to current capabilities.. which you are probbaly using seperate anyway if you are splitting lamps front and rear.

hard to believe you can put enough lamps on an old ford to need to worry about a relay, and NOT tax the charge system. having 1000W of lmaps might sound good, untill you figure out that your charge system only is capable of about 210w of output at continous load.. and that includes any charge or ignition (gassers ) power needed. Figure 48w for ignition for a gasser, and a minimum of 36w for charge... thus.. a gasser, running at a safe rated charge rate on the oem charging circuit has 126w available for lamps and other loads. Given that tractor lamps usually come in 30, 35, and 55 w sizes.. well.. that shows you what you can do.

the common delco alt replacement, if upgraded ups your wattage from 210 available to 336, giging you about 250w available for lamps and other laods past charge and , if a gasser, ignition.

just keep all that in mind when hitting up the electrical and auto supply store for your needs and wants...

I can tell you for sure that none of my older tractors have a lighting circuit relay on them... and I actually went to school for electronics........

soundguy

 

[Bobby R]

The advice on overloading the charging system is something I'd not thought too much about, but it makes very good sense because the generator my tractor has doesn't put out what an alternator would. I'll probably only have the headlights and a rear work light, as I originally intended. (no rear flashing lights). As for the relay or no relay, thanks to all who have contributed input on the question. Since there is so much controversy on it, the only thing I know to do is look at the schematics in a shop manual for my particular tractor and the application I desire, and go from there. I can see sense in what a relay would do, but I can also see sense in how properly sizing the components would do. So, being still stuck with not knowing for sure, I'll consult the shop manual, no offense to any of you!

 

[Soundguy]

shop manual has no relay as it isn't needed for what you are wanting to do.,

oem genny is 22a MAX.. figure 17a for continous use to keep the reg and genny happy... thus the numbers I posted.

ps.. adding a rear red lamp is fine.. 2 head lamps = 110w if using the large ones, a rear work lamp on a series switch, is another 55w.. a red marker lamp will be 5-15w max..

that's 180w max.. and well within the #'s I listed.

soundguy

 

[twoone]

I am impressed with your quote from your schools elect chapter on electrical circuits and I commend you for attending. I seem to remember the same from when I went to electronics school and agree. However, we went on to the next chapters as well and studied the principals and practicability of the use of relays on switching power as most switches can not handle the higher loads than than their rated for. I only suggested that RobertR use one as he has know Idea as to what his load is and said he blew the hole circuit including the switch which suggested that he overloaded the thing or created a direct short. By the way I backed up my education with CE's and worked and retired with 23 years as a Electrical-Avionics tech.

 

[Soundguy]

I am impressed with your quote from your schools elect chapter on electrical circuits and I commend you for attending. I seem to remember the same from when I went to electronics school and agree. However, we went on to the next chapters as well and studied the principals and practicability of the use of relays on switching power as most switches can not handle the higher loads than than their rated for. I only suggested that RobertR use one as he has know Idea as to what his load is and said he blew the hole circuit including the switch which suggested that he overloaded the thing or created a direct short. By the way I backed up my education with CE's and worked and retired with 23 years as a Electrical-Avionics tech.

Are you implying that I did not also graduate with my engineering degree? I hope not? because you would be wrong.

Lets look at this practically, since that seems to be the chaper you liked the most.

1, his tractor's charge system is extremely anemic. There's no point in running more load than the tractor can handle on a steady basis. Given that. lamp switches currently in production, and, well.. installed at the fatory are fine for his application.

Relays are for running less copper, and running laods impractical on switches.. IE.. you don't want a battery disconnect sized switch in the dash for lamps.

however.. dealing with the small load he has.. a regular off the shelf lamp switch will be fine.

ford engineers though so as well.

based on his application, intended load and statements.. adding a relay would just serve to spend money, and complicate the electrical system for the next time someone tries to troubleshoot it.

IMHO.. if he had a meltdown earlier.. it was misswireing, vs improper ratings. even an overloaded switch won't let the magic smoke out imediatly.. based upon the description of the failure.. I'd say it was not fused to protect the wireing either, of which, the switch rating would be a part of too.

now that's practical application... not.. how much technology can we cram into a 48 year old tractor..


soundguy