diesel for generator

[dlabrie]

I am looking to buy a new diesel generator. The specs say "Diesel Low Sulfur Automotive Fuel Only". Isn't the off road diesel I use in my tractor the same thing? One of the reasons I was looking at a diesel generator is because I have the fuel on hand already for my tractor.
This is the unit I am looking at
Portable Diesel Generators UL / CSA

 

[echoman]

I know that around here that are the same . we just add dye to onroad fuel. Both are 15ppm sulfer.

 

[dlabrie]

I know that around here that are the same . we just add dye to onroad fuel. Both are 15ppm sulfer.

That is what I thought as well. On another site this was posted as a reply from the generator manufacturer.

But the main issue about the dye (confirmed by Aurora generators technical dept) is what it does to diesels designed with new emissons standards. In the Cat converters the dye will damage them. The dye creates excessive heat. And the use of it will void the warrenty. Also in the high rpm (3600) the dye will cause valve damage.

 

[90cummins]

I purchased (3) new 5kw diesel generators a couple years ago at an equipment auction with the intention of reselling and keeping 1 for myself.
That winter we had a very bad ice storm which was great for sales of generators, I sold 2 and rented 2 others.
1 of the new diesels kept shutting down due to low oil psi at 41 hours.
Teardown found the camshaft severely worn where it contacts the needle bearing in the block, fortunately the low oil pressure system shut it down before it destroyed the entire engine.
It took 2 years to find new china parts so I could rebuild it.
After rebuilding I ran the generator for 4 or 5 hours to check operation and then tore it down to inspect it for peace of mind.
What I found was not encouraging.
The same cam bearing journal that previously failed looked to be on the same path to destruction.
Having said that buying a china clone can be a risky investment especially for a piece of equipment that is needed in emergency situations.
Some Chinese clones are good, some are not!
I posted some pictures of the damage in the yanmar forum under the heading of ;
Forum for air cooled diesel engines and clones.

To answer your question most fuel today is low in sulfur and any fuel that goes in your tractor will be fine for your generator.
Dye has been in off road diesels for years & I have never heard of valve damage because of it.

Maybe if your diesel has rubber intake & exaust valves!!
Good luck in your decision!

90cummins

 

[Ken45101]

I am suspicious of the claim that the dye causes problems. There is a lot of expensive construction equipment meeting ITR4 and I have not heard any warning like that. As I understand it, very little dye is used, it is extremely concentrated.

I am no expert but I suspect that any damage that happened was caused by off road fuel of unknown age/source which may have been high sulfur. I could be wrong.

 

[5030]

China don't ascribe to ULSD or anything else enviromentally correct (or at least not what the rest of the world deems enviromentally correct), one reason I refrain from intentionally purchasing anything made in China voluntarily (some items you are stuck with Chinese orign because it's only made there....)

Far as deisel engines are concerned, internal wear (cams, cranks, journals and moving parts) aren't effected by ULSD but injection parts (pumps, nozzles and associated parts are).

Internal moving parts are best protected by a quality lubricant, any one of the multi-grade diesel lubricants such as Rotella or Delvac. Therein lies the rub. You have no idea if the internals were made to specification and/or if they are of quality manufacture. That's all in question.

Pump wise, I would add either Cat diesel additive (which I use in all diesel engines anyway) or some other proprietary additive such as Lucas or Power Service Injection Pump Lubricant.

ULSD is very dry, that is, it has no lubricating qualities as far as the honed and close tolerance moving parts in the injection pump are concerned. Sulfur in diesel fuel lubricates the injection components so if the engine is of questionable manufacture (chi-com) or a pre-2000 engine, it's advisable to use an additive, much like using tetra-ethyl lead additive in pre-1960's gasoline engines to mitigate exhaust valve seat erosion caused by the abscence of tetra-ethyl lead. Pre-1960's 4 stroke gasoline engines were made with no hardened valve seats because the lead coated the seat.

Red dye is added to diesel (which is all ULSD by the way) to denote the difference between road taxed diesel and off road (no road tax paid) diesel. The dye makes it easy for a Federal Inspector to ascertain if you are using off road diesel in a road based (and tax applicable) vehicle and enforce the law accordingly.

Generators and classified on road, just like ag machinery, they are eligible for off road diesel.

I would, because the genset will be used only ocassionally, add a bio-cide to prevent algae growth in the fuel, as well as a proprietary injection pump additive plus run a quality, API certified, multi-grade lubricating oil.

Bottom line, is you get what you pay for, whether it's a welder, tractor or generator and the least expensive may, or may not be the least expensive in the long haul. Standby gensets need to perform without problems in time of need because auxillary power is peace of mind.

My genset has a Perkins, Tier 3 engine and it wasn't cheap but then I don't worry about in not operating when I need it (with proper maintenance and additives) of course.

Most times if the price is 'too good to be true', it isn't.

 

[Soundguy]

check the pump you get the off road fuel from.. by law it will be stickered as to it's sulphur content.

in florida, at least around my area, all FUEL IS ulsd.. EVEN the dyed non road taxed stuff you have to jump thru hoops to get.

soundguy

 

[dlabrie]

I didn't think the generator I was looking at was a cheap Chinese knock-off. From all I read, it seemed to be one of the better quality ones out there. It says it's Electrically Approved & Built to CSA Standard 22.2 No 100 | EPA Tier 4

Is anyone familiar with this generator Portable Diesel Generators UL / CSA?

Any suggestions of other brands to look at?

 

[Soundguy]

since it says 'yanmar style' engine.. i wouldn't be surprised if it was a chinese unit.. but .. don't panic immediatly...no biggie. you can get super low quality from china.. or you can get super high quality from china. just depends on what the company asked for and paid for.

i see it has avr.. that's nice.

I have a northstart pto genset from northern tools.. it's a chinese unit.. have it about 7 ys now. it's a nice machine. mine is the 12.5kw model.. mmy stepdad has the 25kw model. if it died tomorrow I'd get another... florida is no fun during hurricane season.. having huge amounts of backup power generation available is nice..

both work flawlessly and are capacitive/passive vr.

good luck on it.

soundguy

 

[schoolsout]

LSD is different than ULSD, just so you know.

And I second the use of an additive in ULSD. I use Power Service in my Jetta TDI and Tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

LSD is different than ULSD, just so you know.

And I second the use of an additive in ULSD. I use Power Service in my Jetta TDI and Tractor.

I mentioned ULSD in my post, not lsd.. and yes.. i know there is a difference.

soundguy

 

[schoolsout]

I mentioned ULSD in my post, not lsd.. and yes.. i know there is a difference.

soundguy

I know, but the OP stated LSD was required. More than likely, no matter what diesel he finds anywhere is compatible with his genny

I would never question your authority on matters, SoundGuy!

 

[dlabrie]

in florida, at least around my area, all FUEL IS ulsd.. EVEN the dyed non road taxed stuff you have to jump thru hoops to get.
soundguy

I just pull up to the pumps and choose between on-road, off-road, Kero or gas. No hoops at all.

 

[Soundguy]

I know, but the OP stated LSD was required. More than likely, no matter what diesel he finds anywhere is compatible with his genny

:

i didn't realize you were not replying to me.. i saw your reply under my post. quoting helps sort that out. I wasn't trying to be combative.. sorry if it seemed that way.

soundguy

 

[schoolsout]

i didn't realize you were not replying to me.. i saw your reply under my post. quoting helps sort that out. I wasn't trying to be combative.. sorry if it seemed that way.

soundguy

I didn't think you were.

 

[dlabrie]

I just emailed the distributor and asked why off road can't be used in their generators and here is their reply.

Off-road fuel and red dyed fuel are designed to run on different engines. The sulfur content in red fuel is 500-1000 ppm Your engine and catalytic converter are designed for fuels with less then 10ppm. If you use those fuels, you will deactivate the catalyst and lead to soot clogging of the converter core. We see it all the time. Converters deactivated, over heated engines and exhaust systems glowing red hot from all the soot inside them. Often they catch on fire.

The EPA also makes it illegal to use anything other then the fuel type it was tested and approved for. You run into the same issues using Biodiesel. There are issues with the Cloud Point, Cetane Number, water content and lubricity. 99% of the engine failures in diesel we see is a result of the fuel that was used.

 

[jonyyuma]

I have noticed the chinese replacement parts are all over the chart on hardness for bearings. Some are okay, others are soft....Some steel parts follow same path. I wonder about their small engines too......No way to tell, unless someone buys it and has good luck? Do their generators have brushes?

 

[Dargo]

since it says 'yanmar style' engine.. i wouldn't be surprised if it was a chinese unit.. but .. don't panic immediatly...no biggie.

I'm not familiar with a "Yanmar style" engine. I know my 55 kw Yanmar diesel powered generator has a Yanmar engine in it that has the Yanmar factory label right on the engine listing everything from it's size to output to stating that it is an industrial "fixed speed" engine. Before I bought this generator, I never really thought about a generator having an engine that was designed to be a 'fixed speed' (1800 RPM) engine. I guess it makes sense, but I have no idea what's different from a fixed speed Yanmar industrial diesel as compared to a "variable speed" Yanmar industrial engine.

I have run across some tractors that were advertised to have a Perkins engine in them only to find out that it had a Chinese made Perkins knock-off engine in it. I promptly passed since almost every single one was leaking oil when they were brand new. It's pretty sad that it's really a 'buyer beware' world anymore.

 

[dlabrie]

Do their generators have brushes?

Yes. Is that a good thing?

 

[Soundguy]

have a yanmar 'style' engine i would assume is akin to have a perkins 'style' engine like you saw. ie.. a chinese copy.

as for the chinese engine leaking.. that just means they copied the perkins REAL GOOD.. I've never seen a NON leaking perkins.. ( great engins though! )

on the variable vs fixed speed.. sounds like a governor issue.

soundguy

I'm not familiar with a "Yanmar style" engine. I know my 55 kw Yanmar diesel powered generator has a Yanmar engine in it that has the Yanmar factory label right on the engine listing everything from it's size to output to stating that it is an industrial "fixed speed" engine. Before I bought this generator, I never really thought about a generator having an engine that was designed to be a 'fixed speed' (1800 RPM) engine. I guess it makes sense, but I have no idea what's different from a fixed speed Yanmar industrial diesel as compared to a "variable speed" Yanmar industrial engine.

I have run across some tractors that were advertised to have a Perkins engine in them only to find out that it had a Chinese made Perkins knock-off engine in it. I promptly passed since almost every single one was leaking oil when they were brand new. It's pretty sad that it's really a 'buyer beware' world anymore.